Hi Mel....

So good to hear from you!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

No, I don't have his phone logs yet, but be assured, I do intend to get them. He's going to have to start stepping up to his promises.....

And even tho I want everything to happen fast, I am no longer expecting it to. I realized that his A went on for a long time, and our situation can't be "fixed" in a day.

Right now, he reads HN/HN, and I read SAA again. The MC is really good, and always talks about how trust will be regained when there has been a history of words and deeds matching.

WH always brings up "I just don't think this will ever go away" - and MC tells him that I will NEVER forget about what has happened - even tho I may forgive. He's so RIGHT!

But, on the whole, if WH keeps moving forward....however slow, it only bodes well for our M, and he may one day be called FWH!!!!!

Thanks to you and everyone who has replied to me, this may be the real deal.

I'm truly happy to have found wonderful support and friendship here!

K <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Renewed contact will feel much like it did before .... something being weird and off ....

Try not to snoop

try to relax and enjoy this time as much as possible

If he starts contacting her .... you will know .... and you will be ready with a plan .... right? You have a plan for yourself if this happends?

Pep

Absolutely! With the qualication that it can't EVER be fixed if he is still in contact with OW. No contact CAN be fixed in one day! Does he seem to be in withdrawal, K? What does your gut tell you?

Hi Pep and Mel...

Yes, I have a plan if I think he has renewed contact.....it's called "the end". I think I have endured enough not only this past year, but the 2 years before that, when WH treated me horribly - I could not say or do anything right in his eyes.

And still I held up for the man - anyway, the man I "thought" he still was.

I don't snoop....I really have no desire to do that. Everything here "feels" so different than the times before.

I think I asked the question before.....what do other BS do when in recovery, and they discover renewed contact? Do they go to Plan B again? Do they call it quits?

As for withdrawl, I could not tell you about that. He wrote in an email this last time that he has gotten over "what he needed to", and was now the H he used to be.....with an "I swear before God - and you know I don't do that lightly".

I am truly enjoying our time together, and I think he is too. It feels "true".

K

You know I don't think you will know until it happens if it is time to quit or Plan B again. Everyone says one more time and I'm done, but in actuality I think you won't know until you are there (if you are ever there again).

On this board so many say they carry Plan B in their back pocket just in case.

But having a plan "just in case" like Pep said is so important as it gives you the sense of empowerment. Without that sense you are floundering in a sea of fear without having any control. With a plan, you have "no fear" because YOU are in control.

Of course I speak from no experience, and only thinking what I would do if I were actually in recovery. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In response to your ??, in recovery the BS does less work. The Xws does most of the recovery work since it is his job to restore the lost trust.

When contact with OW is discovered, I used to send the WS packing. He lost his right to live in our home when he lost my trust by contacting the OW. His excuse had t/b more and more creative for me to allow him back into the home. Each exit made the requirements for his return go up. I kept our family requirements and values up and did not lower my standards. The Xws needed to respect our family and appreciate the value of being a family member. It was not a right, it was and is a privilege.

So for me it meant carrying Plan B in my back pocket. I am one of those who say that because I have had to whip it out and use it. H knows that even now over 1 1/2 years since the last OW contact (in court), I am not scared of using plan B when I feel unsafe. Even though he maybe doing better but may backslide (ie: use porn, etc.), when he does, plan B comes out and nips that sucker right where it hurts. Sleeping in his car/truck is possible when I enact plan B.

Does that mean the BS has a power card over the WS? Yes, only if the spouse acts like a WS. Otherwise there is no need to do so.

JMHO,
L.

Actually, I have thought about this ...

and this is where I stand in my own situation:

I am waaaay more concerned about my H falling off the sobriety wagon than thinking he might contact OW again, or (God help him) start a new affair.

To me, the alcohol was the enabler of his affair. And I tolerated his drinking for years .... and I tolerated his affair for .... ummmmm ..... about 5 minutes ! ~LOL~

So I wonder to myself what my plan is if he starts to drink.

And my plan is Plan B. I would need to separate myself from him if he began to drink again. For my own sanity.

If he began an affair as a sober man .... I know I would end the marriage without Plan B.

But, that's me knowing myself and who I am and what I can tolerate in my life.

The part of me who stayed with my H after he ended the affair is the part of me who really REALLY respected him for doing the difficult tasks he had to do to get himself out of the swamp of infidelity. I really admire people who get themselves out of trouble by their willingness to grow. it's inspiring and produces a warmth in my "down under" that I can say has been a bonus to our sex life ! ~LOL~ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

hi k <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think it makes a difference where the spouses are in their recovery process, both individually and maritally.

I also think that it's the BS who has done a lot of their personal recovery work who can whip Plan B out of their back pocket on a moment's notice.

I have no doubt that you would know if something was up without "looking" for it. I have no doubt that if anything ever did come up that you would act swiftly either with Plan B or divorce because of where you are at in your personal recovery.

Isn't it interesting that your FWH "got it" at about the same time you got to the point of not fearing Plan B? I don't think that's a coincidence. Good job k!

Hi....

Just finally got to read your replies. I agree....Plan B in my back pocket. Ready to go. And it wouldn't take much of a push to whip it out again.

Just read BobPure's post on the poor BS who tragically hung himself. With tears dripping down my nose, I have made a promise to myself....about MY boundaries, and their strength - MY strength.

I feel like I've learned a lot about myself in the past year......DD anniversary coming up soon......that I can make and keep my boundaries firmly in place.

I've learned how strong I am, and that I CAN MAKE IT ON MY OWN. That a loving, faithful H is a bonus, but one I can live without. I can definitely live without a cheating, lying WH who treats me like dirt!

A friend of mine just coined a new descriptive word for her XH - "[censored]hole"!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

It's short, all inclusive, and one of the funniest things I ever heard!!! I almost fell on the floor laughing when I heard her say that the first time <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> !!!!

Anyway.........with BobPures' story under my belt, Plan B in my back pocket, a promise to myself in my heart, and my loins girded (that is REALLY hard to do - first you have to figure out WHAT your loins are), I'M READY!!!

Ready for what I don't know......but I think I can handle what comes my way now.

Thanks to all of you!

K <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Right on K! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

hi k <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"Ready for what I don't know......but I think I can handle what comes my way now."

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

K

bump.............bump............bumping up for K!!!

Ahhhh.....this is long, but I need to get it out....

Four days go by, and something has changed. Granted, WH is VERY stressed about the many things piled on him at work right now.

He is taking me for a "surprise" weekend (he had this all set up apparently before he moved back home this time), and he is off on Sunday evening for a week of camping and scuba diving with the guys.

So, to say his plate is full is putting it mildly. His stress level from having to get things together at work to be done in his absence (he'll be gone for a week), band practice, etc, etc, etc, is VERY high.

It kind of feels like WH has "stepped back" so to speak as far as emotionally, and in affection, etc.

Yesterday we had MC. It didn't go so well. We're doing a lot of discussing communication.

So, MC asks what topics do we need to discuss. I mention the cell phone problem.

WH says he gets very "frustrated" when he calls and says he has to go by the office (where OW works) and I ask him why, or who is he going with, or any other question I might ask him about where he is going, or what he is doing, or who he is with.

(Please know that I DO NOT grill him every time he calls. Only when he calls to let me know where he is going (occasionally) and offers no other info or details. I'm sorry, but when that happens, it's like a huge rock drops into the pit of my stomach.)

I said I didn't feel like he should get frustrated when I ask him questions, considering what we have been thru.

WH said, "THEN WE HAVE A PROBLEM!"

At that moment, I felt like walking out. But I didn't. The MC stepped in and gave ways to ask, and ways to answer in these types of situations.

On the way home, WH started in with the "I feel like I'm right back in the hole" thing, and said he wonders if I might be happier with someone else who could be what I want them to be.

Then, he said "Why is it ME always having to cater to everyone else? Why can't someone cater to ME?! What about MY feelings? WHAT ABOUT ME?!!!! I'm not to blame for everything!!"

Now, I have to say, this just about blew me away! He has treated EVERYONE so badly (and I do mean everyone!) for the past nearly 4 years now (especially me, our kids, and our friends), and he thinks we should cater to HIM???? He's lucky anyone even speaks to him!

I said "I can't see how you past behavior is catering to anyone"...."You can't change the past....you can only fix things so they don't happen again in the future"...."I can't fix the way you feel, I can only fix what I have done wrong in the past, so I won't do it again".....

Then he started talking about how his providing for his family was catering to us.

WTF?????? I said that was not catering, but it was his duty and his obligation - and that he always provided admirably well for us (thinking all the time that I also have done my fair share in the providing).

He calmed down somewhat after that.

I just don't know what to think. Red flags? Stress? Feeling sorry for himself?

And here I am again......

K <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

K

Hi bb.....

Didn't see your "bump" before I posted!

How you doing?

K

hi k <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm so sorry k, but I have to tell you that he is saying things and has a similiar attitude as my FWH did.

Like you, I asked the questions that would fill in the blanks. BLANKS. That's the thing I didn't see for what it was.

I now realize that it wasn't my responsibility to keep asking the questions that would fill in the blanks, it was his responsibility to be forthcoming with the information that I needed to start building trust again.

Your FWH's downturn in attitude regarding things that would "make it up to you" concerns me.

Take care k

K,

I read your other post and just wanted to say that you maybe shouldn't "expect" too much..........too soon.

My husband went through this "pity-paty" time also. Many times, I could of given him a real BIG swift kick in the <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

There were times, I "gave it to him" for even saying things like that!!! I exploded!!! There were also times, I let things go and I even had the energy to "play his pity game!" with him.

I did see that it had a "positive" reaction. I once read something saying, approx. something like the following: You give them the "best" even when they are the last to deserve it!
I think that this must have something to do with the "inner child". I felt that when I simply "held my husband" and "comforted" him (when I actually could of batted him over the head) it was extremely "bonding". Well at least for my husband.
His additude towards me really changed. He became more loving and I started to feel that I was getting something back that helped me to "calm down" and feel more loving towards him when he "spoke like a goof!"

I think that your husband might just want to hear that he isn't a "Total Loser". (even though deep down he knows what he did was $$$$)
He might want to hear little things that will help him stay on track.

My husband would tell me things like: "Well, I didn't feel loved anymore and OW took real good care of me!!!
You were hardly aware of me and you didn't cook anything for me when I came home.

Well, This really made me explode at the beginning!!!
I was "depressed" and I felt that our marriage was going down hill!
My husband came home "Late" much later than usual during his affair!!! So did he honestly expect me to wait for him with the meals.
He didn't feel loved by me............ya for sure but he was bonking some OW and he actually expected me to react loving towards him, just because I "didn't know" that he was involved in an affair!
He told me that he "always" took care of us as a provided, even during his affair!!!
Ya, our employee was working like a dog......and my husband was ...............well, he wasn't working!!!!!This was his interpretation of being a great provider.

So, K, I think that many WS say the same things. My husband doen't talk like this anymore. He KNOWS he was a JERK!!!!

So you might want to think about this. Maybe your situation is simular and within time your husbands mind will "clear up" too!!!!

I hope so!!!!
This might be a great time practicing to be a "Great Listener" without commenting!!!!!

I hope I'm not completely off track!
take care
bb

Hi LovingB and bb.....

Thank you so much for your replies.

I think a lot of what is going on right now is due to the extreme amount of stress that WH has going on at work and with everything else all coming about at once.

Still, it makes me feel like our M is on the back burner.

I am going to give him some more time.......I think a week away from everything will do him good.

Yeah, bb, I think also that this is a little bit of a pity party for WH. He can't see past what is going on with him. Let alone worry about how I feel. He would be completely over-whelmed if he knew everything I felt.

I will keep on with the vigil.....until I have proof, or a gut feeling that something is going on that shouldn't be.

Then, out comes Plan B.

Lemonman said in one post I read "empower yourself".....that being said, consider it done! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I still feel that I am in control here.....no matter what happens.

K <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

K:

Yep, you are here again...........Re-read your post........you are making a thousand excuses for your WH. Listen honey, we are all stressed, and we all have tough jobs and "responsibilities". Stop making excuses for him and why he treats you the way he does.

I was gonna write a long post to you but have decided against it. It has all been said before and you are a big girl, you can be 100% responsible for your life and what happens tp you. Protect yourself, "pad up" and get ready for the fall is all I would say.

Goodluck