...relating to the KIDS! Our oldest son had an EKG done a few weeks ago and it came back ABNORMAL...so I had to take him to the Cardiologist today! The alien KNEW of this appt, I have had this appt for WEEKS now and I have told him SEVERAL times the DATE of it...regardless of IF HE DIDNT" KNOW IT...I did tell him about it, but he AGAIN refused to listen to me and not REMEMBER the date...NOT MY PROBLEM!

So I take my TWO older kids with me...I left the youngest one at school...It was a nightmare ALONE with the two of them....anyway, to make a long story short...turns out that my son has something called ASD...he has a hole someplace in or around his heart! He has to wear a heart monitor for the night and then we go back in 3 months...Dr. said it is nothing to get overly alarmed about...he also said "If your H has ANY questions, just have him call me"

Well, all that the DR just said to me went in one ear and out the other...so I get into the car, call H's clinic...not there...call his cell, no answer...page him...wait, no answer..page him again, no answer! i was going to page him a THIRD time, but said F*** it...you know what, he is with her...I am trying to get ahold of him to tell him about the appt and to talk to him about OUR son! He ignores me! so F*** IT! he calls back an hour later..."did you CALL me" I said "yes, I did, but I know you are busy" and hung up...

I was gone for 6 hours between DR's appt, practice and dinner...just walked into the door...phone rings...I run DOWNSTAIRS to get it and it is HIM! He said he just wanted to say GOODNIGHT! Well, I just let him have it! He said He didn't KNOW his appt was TODAY! ummmm, yes, I even showed you the F***IN films yesterday...I went off on him...telling him that I am sick and tired of paging him to have him ignore ME...these are HIS kids too and he needs to be available for THEM! He asked how the appt went and all I said was that he has an ASD and that he could call the cardiologist in the morning...and I hung up!

I am so sick of this...

OK, sorry for the VENT...just had to get that off my chest! Thanks for reading! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Hi Mom2,

I believe that the thread title is inaccurate. He DOES return your calls, in a time and manner that gets him what he wants--your attention, your BIG attention. And now he gets the attention of the board too. Why should he stop doing what he's doing?

I'm sure that he knew that he had scored when he talked to you later, but if he wasn't sure then all he would have to do is read your post. Worse, OW could read your posts to get directions and a checklist of how to get to you so that Dad2 settles for her.

He's not going to change how he does anything as long as he's getting what he wants--and as long as you keep handing it to him on a platter for OW to enjoy with him. At least make him work for your attention, at least make him put some thought and effort into it.

I understand your anger, really I do. But is venting here really in your best interest? Where else can you vent that won't do you more harm than good?

If you want to delete your post, I'll delete mine too so's to get rid of the evidence before Dad2 or OW see it.

Take care Mom2 <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Only you can spool. Do not let him have that kind of control over you. Sorry I'm an engineer, I fix problems. If LB is right, he may be teeing you up on purpose. DO NOT give him the satisfaction. If you're divorcing and he does not care about your sons, that's not your problem. Do it on your own. You are obviously capable. He sounds manipulative. Like my mom said, "Don't let him get your goat"

I'm sure your son will be fine. He's young, and apparently healthy enough to wait 3 months for his next visit. I'm going in to see if I'm losing my sight in my right eye tomorrow, another friend had an MRI to see if he has cancer in his jaw, leading to removal of that jaw (makes it hard to chew), and there are people dying in the Sudan, just because.

Take a breath. Sit on your front porch, check out the stars or the rain, and take another breath.

SIS

Then please stop it.

You can stop it.

susan

Mom,

I can understand where you are coming from. Hearing your son has a hole in his heart and has to be on a heart monitor at night is upsetting. You wanted to share this info with the one other person in the world who you thought would care and could commiserate with you about it: Dad.

But with the divorce on the horizon you have to adjust to a new mindset. Sure, Dad needs to know about things that affect the boys. But unless it is an immediate life or death situation, don't even bother calling him! Just leave him a voice mail once a week (heads up on school activities, doctor appointments, etc...) and don't count on him for a thing. Then you won't be disappointed. You can't make dad CARE about the boys's appointments, etc. You can only let him know when they are and if he shows, good.

You won't be able to keep this up for very long, though. It's pretty clear that if you continue on this track you are going to be 90% responsible for the boys and filling dad in as he checks in, whenever he feels like it. You'll be going insane inside of a couple of months and the boys will suffer, too.

Talk with your lawyer about requiring that dad have 50% physical custody of all three boys each week. If you explain to the judge the high needs of your children the 50% physical custody is very reasonable. I don't mean joint custody. I mean he takes them Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday one week and Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday the next week.

You will need a break, too. And dad is just as capable of taking them to a doctor appointment or a school event. It's his JOB ONE. Don't let him skirt his responsibility. He wants to have a second family. Cool. He can add your three boys to the mix for 50 percent of every week.

If memory serves me, OW was very adamant about her attitude that boys need their dads, remember? Well, she's right. Dad has to take responsibility for his boys at least 50% of each week. Preferably court-ordered.

Breath deep.

~ Snow

Good idea Snowbelle!!

Mom,

You're in Plan P, right? If so, your intermediary should be the one calling Ed. And you can just let him deal with it. So he doesn't want to take calls? Intermediary can leave messages, and document that he was notified.

Dad still isn't taking you serious.

I wrote a very long post last night, and when I woke up this a.m. it wasn't here. So I'll try to remember the insight I shared that didn't make it here.

Barbara D'Angeles taught me about "tanking" - When a series of tanks are connected at the bottom, all the tanks, at normal air pressure, will maintain the same level of water. When one tank changes pressure, it forces water into the other tanks or chambers at levels higher than it's own.

When someone who doesn't like to deal with their feelings deliberately pushes the buttons of someone else so that THAT person feels their feelings instead - that they feel the most calm when their partner is at the craziest. The crazier you feel, the calmer he feels. So he will do everything he can to push your buttons - to ignore you just long enough to get you really riled up, and when you are to the point of action, do what he can to reel you back in. It's about avoiding feelings and having a sense of control.

If you are a Star Trek Next Generation fan, you'll remember an episode where a diplomat came aboard the Enterprise with his very old-looking mother - he was about to negotiate a peace treaty between two factions that were on the verge of mutual extermination. His mother was a crazy thing - The diplomat began to really connect with Deanna Troy and the mother would be screaming obscene things at Deanna - then the mother died - and when Dr. Crusher tried to revive her, found the woman was actually a young woman. They couldn't figure out what had caused the extreme aging. As the crew investigates, Deanna starts having the same rages, and begins aging right before their eyes. They learned that the diplomat had a method of "tanking" - where he could take all his negative feelings - malice, hatred, rage, jealousy, fear, and put it on someone else so that he could stay calm during negotiations. They had no idea how many women had died as a result of his methodology.

So it is with real life tanking - Ed is trying to take all the negative feelings he has, and put them on you. That's why Plan P is so beautiful. It removes you from the tanks. It allows Ed to feel his feelings without interference from you, and it allows you to move on, unhindered by the ultimate drama queen's avoidance strategies. If you have any doubts of Ed's addiction to drama, just go watch him on Dr. Phil again...

Choose out of the tank game - don't be the dumping ground for his negativity.

Dear Mom ~

I'm not a doctor, but I have some small familiarity with ASD because ASD and PFO (a similar hole) run in my family.

These things can be repaired now, often thru a surgery similar to angioplasty. When I had my PFO repaired, I was in the hospital over night and was fully recovered in 5 days.

Thank goodness the doctors found it ~ these types of heart defects which are actually pretty common can go undetected for years. My PFO went unknown until I had a stroke. My sister has ASD and PFO, that was undiagnosed until she insisted on a full cardiology work up.

I always found that when my anger and emotions were spinning out of control ~ focusing on the things I had to be grateful for was always a good choice. You've got so much to be thankful for right now!

You can't change your husband's behavior. You can change how you choose to react to it.

I had a "God box" (still have it!) that I put my husband's picture into - and I learned to focus on what was good in my life. I wrote gratitude lists...to help me change my attitude. You have gorgeous little boys (I watch Dr Phil everday!), you live in a country with awesome medical care, you are a beautiful healthy woman yourself, and you have so many friends and people who care about you.

Mom,

My son has an ASD that was diagnosed when he was 6 months old. He was under the care of his cardiologist until he was 4. His ASD involved a faulty valve as well as a hole. For the most part it has resolved itself with no action needed so far.

But I know how scary it feels to be the mom of a child that has this type of condition. We are fortunate in that, our son's case is minor.

Sorry about the behavior of your H; he's pretty predictable isn't he. I sort of feel sorry for him on the day he "wakes up" and realizes what he has done. Because by then you will have moved on with your life and will be happy in your new life.

I read on here daily, and when I read Snowbelle's response to you MT3B, I wanted to say "I second it"!!!!

Everything she said is the exact path you should take to remove yourself from the drama. I would only add the option of writing him an weekly update, if you don't want to call.

Anyway I just wanted to respond to Snowbelle's great advice to you, and to let you know ----even the lurkers are rooting for you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Rachel

Mom - I'm going to give you some truth here, and I don't think you're going to like it, but what have you got to lose?

I don't think you have changed one inch from where you were one year, three years, five years ago. I think the divorce is just one more desperate ploy on your part to Get His Attention and Wake Him Up.

What will you do when that doesn't work? Because it won't, you know.

Getting a divorce will not change a thing in the dynamics of this relationship. You will still be just as stuck on him and just as desperate to "wake him up."

You know why I say this? Because I am every bit as bad. I find it just as hard to detach from my H as you do from yours. And the sad thing is for both of us -- REAL DETACHMENT is the ONE THING that might really make a difference.

Somehow you have got to find the strength to do this. Maybe doing it in stages would help. For example:

My H is on a business trip right now. He's out of the state. Next week he's going to be out of the *country* for over a week. I despise these trips and they are a source of extreme anxiety to me because of all the fun and games that always goes on when a pack of corporate bigwigs get together without their wives.

I have not been able to detach from him completely -- not yet. But I used to ask him to stay in touch with me, tell me what he was doing BEFORE it happened so we could talk about it FIRST, etc. - the basic POJA that everyone here understands.

Sounds reasonable, yes? But he dragged and dragged his feet, would only tell me about dinner plans and so forth AFTER he got back from them while I sat at home frantic, complained mightily about always having to "hear about it" whenever he went out, and seemed to enjoy being in this kind of control. It's HUGE ego trip for them, you know.

So this time, I left home and stayed away at a writer's retreat last weekend. I talked to him on the phone and was available 24/7 by cell, but he did not know where I was and I did NOT ask him what he did all last weekend.

Last night when he got around to calling from out of state -- like always, at the very end of the day when he's done with everyone else and feels like throwing me a crumb -- I asked him NOTHING about where he had been, where they went to dinner, who was there, etc. etc. He started to talk about it but I interrupted and INSISTED that I do NOT want to know. That way, he can never again complain that I am "cramping his style" and "getting in his way". I told him I could not make him want to work with me on this marriage but I sure as hell could make sure I am not ANYONE'S ball-and-chain.

Then I calmly told him I hoped he had enjoyed his evening, and hung up.

I understand how difficult this is. I also understand how necessary it is. And Kandi, as long as you are really doing things to Get His Attention and Wake Him Up, they will NEVER work.

I think my sense of pride kicked finally kicked in. When I realized he considered me an obstacle to his fun, just the old sterotypical ball-and-chain, I flung the door wide open for him and told him I would NEVER be anyone's ball-and-chain. And I have not looked back. It's been all of two weeks now that I have asked him NOTHING about what he has done when he's not with me, and I HONESTLY DO NOT WANT TO KNOW.

(edited 'cos the freakin' Board Monster grabbed the post early)

I know two weeks doesn't sound like much -- but it's a hell of a lot better than I've ever managed before. And when he goes out of the country next week on a *very* exciting trip, it will be the same way.

Whenever I do talk to him now, he complains mightily that I won't go out with him on the weekends when HE feels like going out. He therefore feels free to blame me for why our marriage isn't working -- "well, (snivel) you won't DO ANYTHING with me!" -- conveniently forgetting all his years of lying to me, cheating on me, and ignoring and disregarding me for his female co-workers.

Instead of endlessly trying to explain what his actions have done to me and hoping maybe he will care, I am now nothing but a broken record: "When you want to give me real apologies for things that have torn the heart right out of me, and when you want to discuss how we can put each other first instead of other people first, let me know. In the meantime, here are your car keys and I'll open the door for you." (And I do, quite literally.) It makes him furious. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Kandi, you and I have got to do the one thing that might really help: DETACH. Do it in stages if you have to. But you aren't fooling anyone by filing for divorce - least of all Ed.

As long as you are doing things in hopes it will get his attention and make him change, it will NEVER, EVER work.

If you start doing them out of respect for yourself and don't even WANT to know what HE thinks about it -- it just might.

Good luck.
Mulan

Mom,
you're getting some GREAT replies here. Pray for a calm heart... and really really let this stuff sink in. I KNOW it's hard. Just like Mulan said, I've BEEN there TOO!!!! Your post the other day struck me - it made me remember an old post of mine "How I learned that Plan B is for ME" from over 3 years ago. How did I learn? from the stuff you're going through. I finally got sick and tired of being ignored, being yelled at, being lied to, hearing retarded jusstifications, etc., while I was supposed to be in Plan B, and negotiating Divorce settlements. *I* kept trying to talk about the marriage, and love, and EXPECTATIONS, and *I* kept getting shot down, and getting p*ssed off. I learned little by little to let it go, to detach myself, and let him go his way, and quit trying to control the situation. I didn't do it perfectly, of course, but each lesson learned helped.

Listen to this WONDERFUL advice from these level-headed MB'ers that care about you. You are a strong, smart lady. Take of those boys, and don't worry about Dad2. If he wants to be involved - he'll do what he has to do to get involved. Let HIM figure it out and step up to the plate.

Dad "I tried to reach you last night. Where were you?"

Mom - "Oh, we were at the hospital. Don't worry about it."

Dad -"Why?"

Mom - "I've got it handled. Talk to you later. Bye" click.

hehe. You can tell him later.

OK, that might be extreme about SOME issues, but maybe not. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

If you want control of this (and I know you do, cuz I see it all over your posts!!!), then take real control and take of stuff and FORGET about him. I know it's hard. I know. I know. But live your life. You are worth it, you are smart and talented, and you are MISSING OUT on the joy that is out there for YOU to experience.

hugs,
Faith1

Mom:

What's up? Did you wear your sunglasses on the way to the Dr.'s office?

Hopefully, you didn't wear sweats. A new outfit?

Goddesses can handle these situations perfectly well, thank-you, on their own without the help of WHs who have been captured by aliens....

Your post got me thinking, that when I'm in an emergency situation and I've got one call to make...who do I call? Generally NOT my FWH. I usually call my folks, or a reliable friend. H is just not that reliable.


My thought is that when it comes to ANYTHING medical you have relied on WH to explain, or understand, or just be a calming influence. And along with him living apart and pulling awy, this is one more aspect of the M you are getting used to not having any longer.

I wonder if part of it is that you don't have your Dad around anymore to lean on.

D23B has not been dependable for a while, but there has been some semblance of dependability... I think Mulan's got that right, how can you detach from that? It's not that he has been so dependable, but the HOPE that he woudl BE dependable has been so strong. How can you let that go? How can you find others to depend on? How can you stop looking to him to fill a hole he hasn't been very good at filling? How can you begin to fill your OWN hole?

MT3B,

This is great for Ed! He's got two women clamoring for him. It must be a real ego boost.

Your self-respect, of course, is in the tank. He won't even care about his children by you.

LET HIM GO.

If he comes back, and with sincerity is willing to give up OW and possible OC, then you can consider taking him back. In the meantime, LET HIM GO.

He's chosen to have two women. Eliminate that choice by removing yourself from the situation. Let him have contact with you when it seems he wants you to feel...

Cherished

K,

Didnt you say he started reading your MB posts,again?

He's found a new way to yank your chain! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Yank, yank, yank...

Arent you tired of this yet?

Mom

Don't call him
H

M23, I'll post more once I read all the replies. But I did want to jump in on the ASD thing.

My son, Justin... was diagnosed with ASD at age 9. The pediatric cardiologist also found some other things including SVT, and 3 murmers, as well as MVR.

They anticipated through puberty the ASD would resolve itself.

At 17, the cardiologist ran additional tests to see what had transpired through puberty, and sadly Justin's did not close.

He lives a fairly normal life, no contact sports, antibiotics prior to any dental cleanings, stuff like that.

Cardiologist believes by the time Justin hits around 30, he'll require corrective surgery.

Justin just turned 21 on March 11.

like I said..I'll post more about this thread in a while..I want to really read through it.