Okay, here ya go stillseeking....

Where do I begin? I've been divorced for about a year now. I have, for the most part, maintained little or no contact with my exH, primarily because it's been easier that way, and partly because there was no point talking to him while he was involved with another woman.

In early July, I had a couple phone conversations with him after one of his grandparents had a stroke. Then I didn't talk to him again until late November, when I wanted to get my childhood Christmas ornaments from him (forgot to take them when I left). Well, within a couple of weeks of that visit, he started phoning and emailing me. He kept on saying that he still loved me, and that I was the only woman he'd ever want to have children with. I did not answer his calls, he had to leave messages. But he persisted just enough that I got creative and forwarded the emails to his girlfriend. Now THAT resulted in some interesting revelations...she and I emailed back and forth a bit. I found out that she thought he and she were in a committed relationship since a few months into our separation. My now exH was seeing both of us for 1 1/2 years! He claims they broke up and got back together several times, and those were the times he saw me, but I think that's BS. Anyway, end result, she dumped his a$$. He's single now for the first time in his life since age 17.

Anyway, about a month ago my exH's grandpa passed away. He was a dear sweet man who was always very loving and kind to me. He never ceased to tell my ex to take me back, and apparently repeated it many times on his deathbed as well. So I attended the funeral, saw my ex for the first time in about a year. He was unusually kind. He made chit chat with me, my parents, and my friend (a girl who was also once my exH's brother's GF for 5+ years, so she knew grandpa too). He even made an apology to my friend for how unkind he'd been to her over the years (this made her jaw drop).

Since the funeral, he and I have had a handful of phone conversations. He's been going for weekly counselling since January (aka since he got dumped). He's been making sincere apologies for his poor and hurtful behaviour during our marriage and separation. He confessed to sleeping with BOTH of the former female friends, albeit during our separation, not during our marriage (he still sees the two as separate - even thought I think if you are separated you are still married). He even two timed the one girl by sleeping with the other one! The last time I talked to him he confessed to "fooling around with" one of them (the one we'd known much longer) during our marriage for several months as well.

He is finally expressing great regret and sadness over the loss of what we once had.

I have tried dating, been out on dates with about 5 different guys, and can't seem to get past the 1st or 2nd date. I sometimes wish I could go back to my exH, but he has such an immense history of being mean and hurtful (even if he sounds like he's figuring things out a bit now) that I don't feel safe around him, and still won't see him. I've also demonized him to my friends and family to the point that going back to him would be near impossible. Also, he comes as a package with his mother and brothers, and I don't really think I want them in my life. They are a bizarre lot now, not like they once were before their husband/father passed away. It's like that family fell apart after the patriach passed on.

Anyways, I sometimes wish he had figured this stuff out before we divorced, we probably could've worked on things, but our lives are so separate now, that I sincerely doubt we could ever really begin to try to trust each other again or be together again.

Oldtimers, and new, let me know whatchya think.

Jen

Oh yeah, I forgot one other juicy tidbit....I was walking across a parking lot at a local pool/fitness center last week, when I heard a cheerful female voice calling out my name. It was OM's wife, who was with OM on their way out of the center. She was SO excited to see me (genuinely), wanted to know how I was, if I was still working at the same place, etc. No mention of my ex or my divorce. I made quick polite chit-chat about work with each of them and dashed off. Obviously OM never confessed, and has kept his marriage intact. Good on them for making their marriage work I guess. And it's a relief to no longer have to wonder if I run into her whether or not she was going to hit me with a right hook. I'm glad I'm not him though, living with the dark secret that he cheated on her.

Jen

Well you weren't around when I came on board, but I have read your stuff when you do post and what I think is that you are going to be just fine.

You are so young and have your whole life ahead of you to meet a really great guy who knocks your socks off.

You have no children and have been divorced long enough now that I see no reason to even try to rebuild with your ex. Why go backwards if the love is no longer there, if there were children involved then that would be a horse of a different color.

I am having a hard time dating now too. But I am still in love with my ex-fiance so I can't help comparing everyone to him. So I decided to just not date for awhile and if the right guy comes along I'll have the desire to date him. If not, I all ready have a child so feel no burning need for marriage.

You sound like such a great girl with a good personality that life is only going to get better from here on out for you I think.

Blessings Jen Brown!

Your ex sounds like he has a lot of issues to overcome before he becomes 'whole' again. It is hard to love someone who will envelope you in lies... I'd go crazy. I am not smart that way, and I don't want to be in a relationship where I have to look out for lies all the time.

Hi Jen,

It's great to hear from you and I wish to offer my condolences for the passing of your exH's grandfather. I have no great words of wisdom to offer you except to remind you that the loneliness of being with the wrong person is worse than the loneliness of being unattached.

TMCM

Hi Jen -

I concur with your decision to keep your distance from your XH, although it sounds like you're tempted for more. From a distance, it appears you would have nothing but more heartache if you reconnected with him in any sort of relationship. Please apply what you've learned throughout your experiences to a fresh start with another man. Take your time and be picky. And - I'm still too old and too bald (and too taken) for you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Secondly, I think you should fess up to OM's wife. You are living with this secret as well and your interaction with her - albeit not at your initiation - is dishonest. You may find this to be a powerful cleanser.

WAT

Hi Jen,

Spring is finally here eh? It's nice to be out in the River Valley again.

I get the sense that your X is beginning to recognize his shortcomings, but I don't see any change from what you posted. He obviously has no problem continuing to lie to the women in his life. I'm a bit of a cynic in that I think the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior.

I'm sure you think fondly of a time when you were in your marriage and content. A time when you didn't have to look for a potential companion and all the work and scrutiny it takes to find a suitable one. I miss my life then too.

I think, though, sometimes it's the situation we may miss sometimes and merely recognize that our spouse (or ex in your case) just happened to be there at the time. We associate their presence with our feelings, when in fact their actions were the antithesis of what should define that relationship.

Patience Jen....this is a big town with lots of quality people. Your day will come.

Oldtimers, and new, let me know whatchya think.

1. I think you sound lots better than you did before.

2. Your H sounds like he wants to change.

3. Since we don't know if he will, you should keep your distance.

4. You can always change later if he does.

5. Most here believe he won't, and are afraid for you if you get involved with him again.

6. It's almost spring where you live. (Oh shoot, Binder already said that !)

7. Don't you get tired of these number lists?

Hey - you do sound good. As JL often says, time and patience. You will get where you want to be.

Do you have dreams, or do you try not to think about it?

SS

It's so good to hear the kind words of familar folks AND new!

Weaver - I am happy to hear that you think I am young still....I just know that my ovaries aren't, so I get anxious sometimes, especially with so many of my friends having babies. I too compare everyone I date to my ex...but the good news is generally they are all a step up! I just miss having someone with all the same interests to hang out with (that's not female and that I can have sex with, lol)!

ruffled - you sum up nicely one of my biggest annoyances with my ex - always having to sniff out his lies, and not trusting him. Heck, this last confession of his may even be a lie, an attempt to manipulate me in some sort of way I haven't figured out yet!

TMCM, thanks for your condolences. Indeed, being with someone and not being happy is worse. I have a friend who just can't seem to end a bad relationship, and she is so envious of me and my single life.

WAT - I don't think it's my place to rush out and confess to OM's wife. It's very late in the game, and it would seem like my intent is to ruin their marriage. Who knows, maybe she does know and is an amazingly forgiving person (hence the friendly interaction). However, if I ever do run into her and she asks WHY my now exH and I divorced, or why we stopped all contact with her or her H, I will answer her question(s). I am simply not up for the guilt associated with possibly breaking up their relationship by seeking her out and telling her. We could debate this for hours, but I am at peace with my decision to not find her and tell her. It's his responsibility.

Binder - indeed, I am happy to see spring weather here finally! I've even been out for a couple of bike rides in the river valley (a bit muddy and snowy in places still though!). Indeed, the words of my father seem similar to your thoughts, "the more things stay the same, the more they tend to stay the same". My exH isn't likely to change, and even if he is, it will take lots of time. In general he seems to lack respect for women who are not his mother, and somehow seems to have been living under some strange sense of entitlement to treat us poorly too. I am not overly optimistic that the quality people in this town are going to cross my path anytime soon....but I will try to remain more optimistic than cynical.

SS - I always like numbered lists. They're easy to read! Do I still have dreams? Absolutely! I still dream of finding a loving man to marry and settle down and have kids with, travel with, and be a family with. But I do often try not to think about it too much, because I am afraid of ending up an old maid, and childless like at least one of my cousins who went through several long term relationships that just never ended up in marriage or kids. That's my biggest fear. I LOVE kids, and very much want to have a family someday.

My head knows better than to return to my exH. But my heart sometimes misses the good 'ol times, when we did have fun together, before all the rediculous EA and PA mess. But the trust is long gone, and I would sooner take what I've learned and build a fresh, new, strong relationship with someone else.

Hey, question for the guys --- would you find it intimidating to date a tall woman who owns her own townhouse and car? Would you date a woman who earned more than you and owned more than you? I think I scared off a couple of guys because of this, but I am not sure. That, or they really wanted a ditsy short little blonde girl with big boobs that looks longingly at them and agrees with everything they say, and agressively plants a big wet one on them at the end of the first date.....NOT ME. lol

I am fairly content with my life. A man will have to REALLY appreciate me and meet my needs in order for me to make room for him in my life. I will be choosy this time around, that's for sure.

Jen <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'll not debate the other issue.


I recommend that if you suspect you intimidate any guys that you cross them off your list of candidates. Some guys are indeed shallow enough/insecure enough to be intimidated by taller/more successful/more affluent woman. What idiots! Don't they see this defines them in a way that tends to contradict their own view of themselves? What real man desires a woman who is "lesser" by any standard? (By "lesser" I mean any perceived measure of status/accomplishment/standing?) I personally have never understood this. It seems to me that a man or a woman is better defined by his/her own security with a "powerful" woman/man, huh?

When I started dating again, I did become frustrated by women who limited their suitors to a minimum height. I'm 5'8" and it seems the "cutoff" was 5'10". The good news here was that any woman who possessed such a discriminant was revealing to me her potential shallowness and I needn't waste my time.

WAT

Tall is good, my first to "serious" girlfriends were about 6' tall, very northern european blondes, but very slim. I'm 5'11"

Personally, I wouldn't be as concerned about what she owned, rather more concerned about how much debt she had. Living paycheck to paycheck to have the townhouse and car would concern me.

Of course, if the car was a stick shift, that would be a plus.

I think any man who is worth his salt isn't intimidated, nor would he necessarily be impressed by those things. I would be more concerned with some compatibility, can we talk and laugh.


Frankly, as a BS who is now divorced, you being a WS would be my greatest concern. Not what you owned, how much you made or how tall you were.

FWIW,

T

Gosh, as I read the way I worded that question earlier, it sure sounded quite shallow and conceited. I don't define myself by my possessions like my house etc., but the last guy I dated gave off the definite impression he was uncomfortable with the fact that he rented and I had a place of my own, etc. The obvious fact is that if someone is compatible with me, what I own or don't own doesn't matter, indeed, it's a question of whether we get along, can laugh and have fun together.

java....sorry I don't drive a stick shift, I prefer to have both my hands free at all times while in the car! :0
Now as far as being a FWS (I'm not a WS, that would imply that I am still married and also still cheating), that's a hurdle that I will have to go over every time I get to know someone new. I will always have to say that my marriage ended due to infidelity, on my part and my exH's part. But I am up front about things and tell them, I am honest from the get go, because I am not comfortable hiding things anymore. I can't stand to lie to people anymore. It's exhausting and it's just plain old wrong, because the truth always comes out anyway. I am done with the dark chapter of my life where I lied to the man in my life, for no good reason at all. I am fairly certain that my track record will drive away some people who believe that people cannot change, and/or people who have been hurt by someone who cheated on them, but that's just going to have to be the way it is for me after the choices I made. C'est la vie. I am hoping they respect my honesty and that it helps to build trust.

Jen

I claim typo's for the word to (should have been two) and WS instead of FWS.

There are probably others there, as my brain goes much faster than my fingers...

Jen ... I agree, you are not FWS, you M are over. You are single w/ no skeleton in the closet that is still kicking <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

-rh-

Hi Jen! It's good to hear from you and that you seem to be doing well.

Sorry to read about the passing of "grandpa," it sounds like he was fine man.

About your ex...amazing how the truth finds it's way out sooner or later. I understand the "missing him" parts, that's natural, but all I read is how he's maybe sorry now for what he lost. But what I didn't hear was a decision to be "right with God" or any type of real Repentance. Wait on the Lord, Jen, biological clock notwithstanding. You never know what God may have in store for you as you walk with Him and wait on Him.

God bless.

By the way, have you heard anything from Zoey? None of the email accounts that I had for her and her husband work (they haven't worked in a long time) and I'd love to get caught up with her (I'm assuming that they are back from Iraq by now).

Hello rh and FH, thanks for stopping in. I appreciate the kind words.

FH, I haven't heard from Zoey. The last time I tried the email addresses I have for her I had no luck either. I pray that they are okay, and I suppose there's a chance they are still stuck serving in that mess over there, hence the lack of replies. I too wish we could somehow find out how she is.

Now I have some questions I'd like to ask my exH, to somehow make better sense of his confession....such as:
1. When exactly was this time period that he fooled around with her? For how long? When precisely did it start?
2. Was that the time in our marriage when he took his ring off? (There was a big chunk of time that he wouldn't wear it after he lost a bunch of weight, too lazy to get it resized, also claimed it interfered with his weightlifting at the time.)
3. Why confess this to me now? Why did he sit on this information all this time and berate me, belittle me and generally make me feel like the most guilty and evil person in the world because I cheated on him, when really, he was also guilty?
4. Are there more confessions coming later? Is this going to be like a suspenseful t.v. show, that as he goes through counselling, he'll drop tidbits here and there?

However, my trust for him is still so low that I doubt he'd even answer these questions honestly. I already did try to ask him the "when" question, but he claimed he really wasn't sure, that they stopped fooling around at least several months before we separated. I'm not buying the uncertainty, I remember succinctly when I began cheating on him, and when it ended, the guilt was so intense during, and the relief was so great at the end.

Sigh, I may just call him and satisfy my curiosity.

Jen <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Does it really matter now ?

You might get the answer that hurt you.
Jen, I sense that you still long for your exH. From his past behavior you have to be careful. You know him better than anyone here and I do beleive people could change. Proceed with caution, think many times if this what you want to pursue and you might want to observe from far for now.

-rh-

Well I did talk to him again on the phone. He really didn't give much more information than he did originally. Stuck to his story that he really didn't remember details of the time he fooled around with that girl, claimed it usually happened when he was drunk hence the lack of memory.

My girlfriends are worried about me talking to him, and really strongly suggest that I stop. Realistically, I cheated on him more than once, he cheated on me more than once (if you include our separation - although he doesn't believe that separated = married).....the relationship may have felt great at one point in the past before all of this mess, but it's doomed. You can't recover from all of that, it would always be a worry tugging at your mind.

My one friend says that she sees confessing to cheating on your spouse as selfish, as a chance to wash your conscience clean while hurting the other person, and serving no purpose other than that. So her opinion is that he is continuing to attempt to hurt me.

I know why I keep talking to him, I am desperately lonely, and he and I are able to talk at length about a variety of things. However, the truth is that I wouldn't ever trust him again, and he is a mean person who has a narrow mind about a lot of topics, combined with a bizarre immediate family that I could do without. I know I should look for someone else, someone better. I know I should take each day as it comes and not worry about ending up a childless old-maid because now my standards are too high. But I do worry. I am intensely envious of my married friends and their beautiful young children. Maybe men can read my anxiousness and that's why they are done with me after one date. Who knows.

I know it's probably better to be single than to be in a bad relationship, but I am sick and tired of being single, and the only hugs I get are from women.

I am a fairly busy person most of the time with work, with working out, with friends, but I had a lot of down time by myself this weekend, and it's left me feeling lonely and depressed about being 32 and hopelessly single. It's frustrating not being able to meet eligible men, even though I'm in a run club and have been trying online dating.

Jen <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

PS: I came up with a theory about why my exH needed SO MUCH extra attention from other females during our marriage. He is the oldest son, and when he was young he got used to being lavished with attention, so maybe that's where that need comes from. Heck, I was sort of like an only child (my brother is 11 years older) and got lavished with too much attention too, maybe that's part of what made me feel entitled to the attention of other men as well. I am curious if first borns and only children cheat more than others.....

Jen,
I agree with your friend to stop talking to him. Remember to guard your emotional needs until you find the one.

I hear you about dating, we are all have same problem too. However hang in there and the right one will come across.

-rh-

Jen,

I felt compelled to write because I read your post and, in a way, saw MYSELF in the future.

I really believe that I will be going through a D very shortly. My H, like your exH, has “an immense history of being mean and hurtful.” I also have a quite a bit of evidence that he is being unfaithful to me, but he will not come clean. He will not be open and honest with me. I am tired of his lies and his secrets.

I feel that I’ve done everything that I can, but at this point, I think I’d much rather be on my own than continue to go through daily mental anguish in my “M.”

I know that there will be many things that I will miss about my H We have shared many good times in our 10y M. However, I’m hoping I can find some of the same qualities of my H that I love in someone new, someone who is NOT EVER mean and hurtful. I need someone who will love me for who I am and RESPECT me.

“Would you find it intimidating to date a tall woman who owns her own townhouse and car?”

I am also very tall (I bet I’m taller than you are!) and I plan on buying a townhouse when I’m on my own. I also make more $$$ than my H.

“But I do often try not to think about it too much, because I am afraid of ending up an old maid, and childless like at least one of my cousins who went through several long term relationships that just never ended up in marriage or kids. That's my biggest fear. I LOVE kids, and very much want to have a family someday.”

This is a fear of mine as well. Plus, I am OLDER that you are, and I’m not even D yet! I am 35 (will be 36 in Aug). I would give my left pinkie toe to be 32 again. At least I’d have a few extra years to possibly find the right someone and have kids. Even if I never find the right man OR have children, that’s ok, too. I’m sure I’ll still have a good life – at least I’m going to try.

So, you are currently better off than some of us here (ME!). I long to be in your position right now. Please don’t get too down. I’m sure, too, that maybe in a year from now when I AM in your position, I might also get down about not finding someone. But I’m going to look back at where I am right now and be thankful that I’m not there anymore!

I hope this makes you feel a little better.