Ok the last one took, but I still got logged out, so I'll try my long post again.
A little background first: We've been married for 19 years, and have had many problems, mostly because we never learned to communicate with each other. In the beginning I was immature, helping others when I should have been home going out after work once in a while instead of coming home. In my own behalf, but not making excuses, it was only a few times a month for a few drinks. However I now know it left her feeling alone and unloved. She is very emotional and very sexual, I didn't understand these things back then and to make matters worse I believed in the old school ways, she takes care of the kids and house and I take care of Plumbing, cars yard etc., but with the twist that if she wanted nice things she would have to work also. So for the first 8-9 years she would yell or scream to get me to do things, again communication was not our specialty!
Then we fell on hard times I got laid off while she was at home with the kids, we lost everything and was almost homeless, I felt worthless and she felt alone still. Two bad years followed, her working long hours and me while working and trying to do the stuff she did (house chores, cooking, getting the kids to bed) I went to the bars on Friday after work but always limited myself to no more than three drinks, so I would be home by 4:30. My oldest was 15 so I had him watch the other two (All 3 boys, oldest was hers before the marriage, and I adopted him) I now know that I was still wrong although trying and learned what it took to raise a family.
Then she was offered a job 500 miles away that would pay more than we were both making, then she started letting me know she didn't want me to move with them, we did a lot of talking and I thought it was all working out, but I had to stay behind for 6 months till she got health ins., making it up to see them every weekend. She again started wanting a D, I would try talking but it was always what I did wrong and I would argue back in defense, we almost came to blows, and when I realized that I almost hit my wife I cried (I am more emotional then most men) I went back and filed for D. A few weeks go by and she starts calling we talk we cry, we meet half way for an evening and the next she wants me to move up with her and make things work, I committed to stop going out unless we went out, and do more chores, so I'm changing to what she needs, but she has also changed, so begins the problems I've been having with her. 1) She starts going out with a girlfriend from work and stays out till 2 in the morning coming home drunk, she is not a drinker, but I felt her pulling away, and the feeling that she is hiding something. A guy I had been working with had been trying to get me to go out, her 5th time out I also decided to go out, figuring if she didn’t want to follow the commitment then I would go out also, and I told I was meeting him at the same bar her and her coworkers were going to then go out from there. She freaked, why are you following me? Why do you have to meet there (it was a good in btw. place)? What if I wanted to do drugs? I’m taken aback wondering what is going on here. She has never done drugs.
I’m making this way to long but I wanted give as much info for good advice. That night I ended up busting down someone else’s locked bedroom door, only to find her standing against the wall while two guys are lining up some coke. 2) We had some neighbors that were good friends, the neighbor lady found out her husband cheated on her, I felt sorry for and we talked once at a party, with my wife present. Then I bought the lady a birthday present it was around mothers day so I figured I would pick something up while getting my wife a Mothers day present, now my wife usually buys the gifts we give others, Including guy friends, and she was going to buy something for this lady anyway, I got a candle and card from us told my wife I was taking it over, presented it to her in front of her husband. And thought that was it, then the lady called my wife thanking her for the gift. Apparently my wife didn’t hear me say I was taking a present over, how could I do this I should never buy a present for another woman, and three months later she tells me she is in love with another man! Because I bought a $10 gift I was supposedly in love with this lady, so she starts pouring her emotions out to a guy who is also in a bad marriage and they fall in love. At this time I make her agree to 6 sessions with a consular before I would give her a D. We started to communicate a little better and she admitted she was off base and recommitted to our marriage and stopped talking to the guy. Oh yeah at the same time she told me she was in love I got laid off from my job. Double whammy.
3) I’m offered a temporary job far away, two weeks there and two weeks home; I don’t want to take it because of us. She says we need the money, I’m worried about her sexual needs going with out for 11 days at a time and she says along as you make up for when you come home I’ll be alright. That job was last March through June, and I found out Friday she had an affair with another man not the one she fell in love with. I knew something was going on anyway things had changed again when I got back, then she is talking to this guy for an hour at a time (cell phone bill had an extra $200 in charges, she thought she had unlimited calling), and their just friends? The cheating was something I had to find out for myself, she is very good at the lies anymore. Last October after the phone bill I found Dr. Harleys web site and tried getting her to follow it with me because the consular was only helping a little and I saw the value of his services.
Questions:1) I’ve always believed that love would keep us together, but with all this background, is it possible?
2) She thinks it would be best if I moved out, I explained that I still wanted to work it out, and that she is still the only one for me, but if she is unwilling to work on the marriage and is adamant about me moving, then what? Half of the time I do feel like moving after 7 years of trying to be the man she wants.
They are worried about me telling the OS and should be, but I have not done it yet it has only been 4 days since I found out just knew it in my gut for a year. It has helped reading the forums before finding out, but already caught myself making a couple demands that I later tried to rescind. It has been a roller coaster ride long before I got it out in the open, but I have gotten 8 hours of sleep, in the last 3 days, lol. Sorry I’m still trying to see the sun in the darkness. Last question for now when it does come out and I have to let people know whom do I tell and who don’t I tell, I’m mostly concerned with the kids, the youngest is 16 now. This will put a major financial burden on both of us and affect the kids with two heading to college this fall; I don’t know how I’ll be able to help. And if they see dad moving out on his own I’m worried they will blame me. Also not having the money to move out is my Ace in the hole to stick around for a while. I got a lot more questions but I’ve made this too long and need some input for now. Thanks.

My goodness you have been through a lot Vulgy. I'm so sorry that your circumstances find you here, but this is a good place to get feedback and information. I'm kinda early in recovery, but just wanted to bump up this thread on the list and give you what I can. Discovery Day (D-Day) is a horrible day for everyone and it isn't unusual to not be sleeping and be upset for quite some time. Try and take care of yourself right away though, because I suspect this process of recovery is going to take months/years and not days. So eat well, sleep when you can and if you feel anger and resentment coming on, bring it here to this forum or your counselor and not aim it at your W.

Regarding your first question - Yes, your M can recover if you both want it to. So, the first question to ask yourself is: after everything my wife has put me through, do I want to stay married to her? You will probably need the help of a counselor to make this decision. I hope you try to save the M before you give up. I've seen spouses come back to the M, in fact, most do. I did and I thought I was headed for divorce.

If you are committed to trying, just know it is so hard to be a BS. Not only do you have to live with the fact your W betrayed your M, but in the early stages you have to do everything you can to bring her back into your M at a time when you are probably hurt and angry.

Read all you can on this web site about Plan A. Plan A may take up to 6 months or so, but basically, you negotiate a way for her to establish No Contact with other man (OM) and work at your M. She is still in contact with OM, right? Couldn't quite tell, but sounds like she is.

Just know too, that if she is still in the A, she is going to say and do things that are pretty weird and not the W you know. She's justifying her A in her own mind...maybe saying things like she loves you but she's not "in love" with you, she never loved you, this is all your fault....etc. etc. etc. We call it the fog here. Smile and don't take much that she says to heart for now. Plan A means essentially "luring" her back and being a more attractive option than OM.

And, it sounds like you need to expose this A to the other spouse and anyone else that will make their A extremely uncomfortable to. Turn up the heat. This is part of Plan A. She is going to hate you for it, but that's o.k. This is the one case where you can "Love Bust". Take away the fantasy of their relationship and expose it to light. Make them talk about things that not so fun...like child support, money, living together, OM leaving his wife, etc.

Tell only those people you want to. Just know that it will always be out there forever. I told my family and to be honest, I regretted that. We are recovering, but family still talks behind our back. I hate that.

Your children are old enough, that if you guys separate, you are going to have to tell them. Hopefully you two can make a commitment not to put them in the middle and protect them.

As far as whether to move out. Why should YOU move out? If she's unhappy and wants to separate, she should be the one to leave. Hopefully you can convince her to stay and try and fix your M. Living together is a better way to try and recover. So, my advice is: Don't leave. What can she do about that?

I hope some of this helps. Take care of you and take care of the kids. Follow Plan A and hang in there.

Write if you need help or support. I'll think good thoughts for you.
GS

PS - if you don't already have it, try Mozilla.com (Firefox) as a browser. Since I downloaded that I don't get bumped out.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

From what you've described you've got a couple of serious problems you'll need to resolve before you can even THINK of beginning to rebuild:

1) Drug and alcohol abuse. Your wife was doing coke? Not good. I suspect that you both have at least a toe in this pond. MB principles WILL NOT WORK for a couple for whom substance abuse is a factor.

2) Independent behavior. Going out without each other is a recipe for disaster. It's not a real healthy thing for strong marriages, but is absolutely deadly for weak ones.

Commit to resolve these issues and you'll be ready to pickup more.

Low

Man I've had a hard time getting back in. After Mozilla, I had to do a search on my post, because when I click on the forum topic it won't go in. Anyway here is my new post if it takes.
First I apologize for the 1st post, I rushed through it and did not reread, and my writing is bad enough to begin with.

Gentlsoul: Thanks for the words of encouragement, as that is why I’m here. After filling for a D, in ’97, WW ask me to come back, but she has never let me back in. In fact she admitted after the first affair in ’02 that she basically used me to help with the kids. She continues to tell me she loves me, but she believes that you can love more than one. Her whole thought process is totally wrong. She’s Christian and brought me to Christ when we first started dating, and how she can morally think this way is beyond me.

We had a good talk last night, as far as me not getting angry, and she knows that this current guy will not work, but he is the first man that has ever made her sweat when he just talks to her. The first A, she believes was her one true love, and is the reason she is on anti-depressants. She’s attracted to a man who exudes strength, and though she loves a lot about me, I’m too laid back.

As for plan A, I’ve been in plan A since ’97 working on becoming the man she wanted, I didn’t have this web site back then, but I have changed, yet every time she wants more. She cried one night because her two best friends, husbands do every thing for them, the cooking, cleaning, etc. I’ve been doing a lot the past several years but its still not enough?

As far as moving out, the main house loan is in her name, we bought it when I had started a new job and they would not accept my income. I’ve been working to eliminate debt the past few years, and while I was away on business she figured she also needed a new Jeep, along with a new friend.

Loworbit: We have a lot of serious problems, however, there is no drug or alcohol abuse, I know my post was hard to follow, but she was leaning against a wall talking while two guys were getting ready to do some coke. If I had not busted the door down and made a scene she might still be running with that crowd.

WW had a major problem with me going to the bars before ’97, I’ve only been out four times without her since, but now she seems to think there is nothing wrong with it? Everything she holds against me from the past, she is now doing to me. Almost like revenge though she says it is not.

I am leaning towards a legal separation; I wish I had MB when I first got married,

Life might have been easier with solid guidelines. She feels I drag her back into an unfulfilling marriage when she pulls away (4 times now), and I just don’t want to be the OM, which is how I feel, she has always told me the kids are #1 and I’m #2, but now I’m #3 or 4, with two other loves in her life!

RV ~
There's so much in your post I'd like to address. First and foremost.....I really sense you have been trying and for that I applaud you. Not many men would try so hard, give so much emotional energy to try and save his W and really hang yourself out there for so long without appreciation. You really care and that's refreshing. You may have made some mistakes early in M, but who hasn't? You see them now and are addressing them. You are a stand-up guy, so feel good about that.

She is trying to tell you this is all your fault because that is the only way she can justify her behavior in her mind. Please, please, please...don't let her convince you this is completely your fault.

While your marriage may have troubles, SHE chose to address her unhappiness by having an A. That isn't the way to address problems, and if your W is a Christian, deep down she'll realize that some day. To me it sounds like you have been really trying to correct prior unhappiness, but you aren't being met halfway.

When someone is having an A, there are all kinds of feel-good chemicals (romantic love) flowing through their brain and body. It makes M feel boring. It overshadows long term attachment. It does make you sweat like you describe. I speak from experience because I had an A and I can tell you, that feeling is overwhelming. You do and say anything to keep it going. Even hurt the person you used to care most about. It is truly an addiction. I didn't believe it when I was there, but I sure do now after I had to kick that habit cold turkey.

But, she needs to understand that it only lasts a short time before it fades, and then you start to see the other person's not so good side. Romantic love hides the OP's faults....it's a big fantasy your brain dreams up. A good counselor will help your W with this concept.

And....like Low Orbit said, going out with girlfriends and exuding independent social circles is HUGELY a bad idea for someone trying to save a M. That behavior led to my problems. You're W is checking out of your M and having a great time without any responsibilities placed on her, like taking care of her children and being a solid role model for them.

RV, your W is cake-eating (having her cake and eating it too). Going out and partying, playing with other men, keeping you at home to keep the stability with the kids is cake-eating. This whole..."a person can love two people" is also classic cake-eating talk.

Making you feel like #3 or #4, telling you she is keeping you to take care of the kids - yikes! If you've been in Plan A for several years, then at this point you might want to think about something stronger, although I disagree it's time for Legal Separation. Right now, she is treating you like a doormat, and you are letting her. You haven't really forced any tough decisions on her part.

Plan A tries to bring your W back to you, and then establish No Contact with Other Man. Have you tried to get her to commit to your M and give up OM, even if it's just for a specified time period like 6 months? Are you in M counseling? Do you think you can get her to go with you?

Until NC is established with other men and the partying stops, your M has no hope of recovering. NC should be your immediate goal.

If none of the above is truly possible (think hard about that), then you might think about Plan B. I still don't think you should move out. You're married so it's all community property anyway. The loan is in her name, but you've been financially together for many other things and if that loan should ever fail you can bet the bank would come after you too.

If she cannot commit to your M, then tell her you would like her to leave. No communication with you will be allowed until she commits to saving your M. She can arrange visitation with kids, but that will be arranged through a 3rd party. Let her live on her own and see what that's like maybe?

Plan B is a huge step though, so think really hard about that. If M counseling is possible, I would try that first. I've heard the counseling through here at MB is wonderful. Not cheap, but saving a M is worth it, eh?

Lots to think about I know. And it is so very hard. But, until she commits to at least trying to save your M, it won't get very far. So, the question is, how can you get her there?

And, I'd still expose the OP and turn up the heat on that relationship. It needs to start feeling like reality instead of the fantasy that it is.

You are doing very well and have put up with a lot these last few YEARS. Maybe you have been a little laid back about this - only you know for sure cuz I'm not there. You love your W, I can tell. Show her.

Hope I don't come across preachy...it's hard to help and not sound like that. Write when you need to.
GS

PS (Again) - try reading the technical tips at the top of this web-page site. Netscape 7.0, turning off cookies, etc. may help. Lots of people write they have trouble, but then when they use those tips, it gets fixed. Don't give up on this website. It saved my M.