Okay, I'm going to suggest counseling with SH to my wife. I'm still a little skeptical of phone counseling, but I agree that it's the quality of the counselor that is the most important, and SH seems to be highly recommended.

Since MB doesn't offer references of former clients, I'm sure there are several here. A few questions:

1) For those of you who've counseled with SH, I'd love to hear stories of how it went (both successes and failures). What was it like?

2) Did you have to convince your WS that phone counseling was as good as in-person counseling? How did you do it?

3) Was your WS intimidated or uncomfortable with the methods used in the counseling? I don't want my WW to feel like the counseling is too biased against her, due to her A (although of course I don't want anyone to enable or justify it, either).

4) In my case, WW is still actively in the A, and I'm trying to negotiate NC during MC. Is this better done by me now or is it better left to a counseling session?

Please e-mail me at squiggle11@gmail.com if you can offer your experience and advice. I could also call you if you e-mail me your phone number.

I know this may be a lot to ask, but this may be my only chance at MC and I want to make the most of it.

Squiggle

I was a client of SH, and it didn't work for me. I did ok working on the LB's and trying to fill her love bank, but was unable to sway her to my side of the fence.

I put phone counseling with SH as well as other options on the table. My XW was unwilling to consider any option that may have lead to the end of her affair.

What I commonly hear is that MC whilst the affair is active is a waste of time. It may not be in all cases, but really she has to want to go to counselling for it to work.

MB didn't work for me, and what SH worked with me, while helpful, wasn't enough to win my wife back into the marriage.

Funny, she is sort of in conflict now, or at least was for a few days. But she has returned to withdraw. No answer on my last e-mail about getting her stuff out of the house.

It just depends on what you need. It didn't help me and seemed to go to slow to positively impact my situation. Combine that with an unwilling WW in an active affair, and there seemed to be little hope for success.

My XW is still in her relationship with the MOM, and it's a long distance relationship. So there is very little day to day reality that she has to face.

Well, it's not my problem anymore. Anyone who could take their vows so lightly is not the woman for me.

HTH,

T

Just a clarification. My WW and I would be counseling together with SH, although it could be that he suggests some IC as well (not sure).

S

Squiggle, just so you know, SH usually meets with the BS ALONE first in order to get the lay of the land give you a plan. You have a more critical issue at hand before you can start marriage counseling and that is ending the affair. I can't speak for Steve, but I can't see him doing joint counseling until the affair is ended. Marriage counseling is a part of recovery and that can't start until the affair is ended. It is fairly common for him to speak to the WS alone, though, in order to understand their thinking and to attempt to persuade them to end the affair.

Squiggle,

My husband and I coached with SH for about 9 months. I highly recommend it even though our situations are different.

He is very good with WSs, and you as a BS will benefit greatly as well.

We were skeptical about phone coaching too, but it is unreal how effective SH is. It seemed as though he had "lived" in our house - he was so right-on in his understanding of our situation. It comes from being an expert in a narrow field...I can imagine he's heard it all!

Commit to at least 1 session - like ML said; you should start. Depending on whether or not your WS is available at the time, he may ask to speak with her too. You'll want to schedule her session as soon as possible.

We always scheduled our session in advance so that we weren't caught in the log jam of people trying to get in to see him. So if you do decide to continue on - book them out 2 or 3 at a time.

You're making the right decision!

And this is usually because the ws is not interested in counseling (or anything else except the op for that matter).

But yes, get an appt first for yourself and he will help you decide on how to approach your ws about talking with him.

He does a couple of things when he 1st talks with the ws.
1 - He (tries to) find out what the ws perceived is/was the problem in the marriage. THis will give you something to work on without having to guess what they thought.
2 - He talks a bit about MB principles (such as the Lovebank, LBs and how to build love).
3 - Talks about how the best option would be to fall deeply in love again with the spouse and have a happy marriage. He doesn't get on this too much while a ws is still in an affair. He simply plants the seed.
Also, he talks about why the affair is not a good thing.

He doesn't get all preachy about it, just why it really is the best option to end the affair, stay married and do everything possible to fall in love again.

It's not a matter of he won't. It's a matter of he [color:"red"]can't [/color] because (see previous statement).

So how do I know if SH would rather meet only with me first or with both of us? I think we could do it either way, but he's the expert. As I understand it, he talks to you separately for 15 minutes each during your first "joint" session.

Without talking to him, how will I know which way he'd prefer to start? I'd like to get started, but if I do IC with him first, then my WW likely won't get into a session (either IC or joint with me) until next week.

Squiggle

Did you have to convince your WS that phone counseling was as good as in-person counseling?
My now ex thought ANY counseling was useless. "They'll just tell me I have to stay married".
She did talk with him one time though at my request (at Steve's request) so he could find out what her thoughts were about the marriage.

how will I know which way he'd prefer to start?
It's not a matter what he prefers, it's a matter of what happens.

If you think your wife is opposed to counseling or think she'll fly off the handle or still in the affair, do it yourself first.

When it is a joint session, he likes to get each side of the story separately so he can judge where each person is at.

A good way to start is;
Before the appt, read and be familiar with "Surviving An Affair" and "LoveBusters".
If you think of any questions prior to calling him, write them down ahead of time because you will forget to ask him.
Keep a pen and paper handy when you are talking with him.\

Steve is very encouraging & will definitely get you up & going.
I highly recommend him.

none better!!!!

I and my WH counseled with SH...and here are some things you might want to understand.

It is not SH's job to convince your wife to stay in the marriage, nor is it his job to counsel your wife on individual issues she may have, even if those are what's leading her to not want the marriage. SH plants the seed and depending on your wife's personality, would try to get her to intellectually (or emotionally, depending on your wife) understand the principals and why it's possible to save your marriage.

My h counseled twice with SH. SH told him the next counseling session would be about moving forward with a plan to save the marriage. H wasn't interested in that at that time so he did not counsel with SH again. He also dropped all pretense at working at the marriage (not that there was much pretense to begin with).

I sometimes wish that MB would employ an IC as well who is trained in MB principals so that for those spouses who are willing to at least talk about things...would have someone to do that with once it's clear that straight MB counseling is not sufficient.

I say it's worth a try because for some spouses, SH is able to turn that light on...but it is an expensive try.

I started coaching with SH about three months after D-day. I was not sure about phone counseling, but it worked really well for me. I coached with him right through Plan A and through both Plan B's. It was convenient and effective--money well spent. Sometimes I would counsel at home and because I do not have privacy at work, I would park my car and coach with him on cell phone from my car! Not once did SH ever mind or make me feel uncomfortable...he was a total help and his coaching helped me to hang in there through some tough times. During those months, I asked FWH to join me, but he would say...I don't want to talk with your "little friend." But I gently kept trying as SH would suggest.

After Plan B #2, both FWH and I coach with SH--it is separate conversations during the same appt. I was having a really tough time while we were on an overseas trip and we even coached with him while we were 17 hours ahead. SH was extremely sensitive to the feelings of the H so that H would not feel as if he was being ganged up on. SH got me back on track and gave H new tools which he used this week and I felt connected to H....so SH's advice sunk in and worked. FWH attended MB seminar, but did not do the follow up assignments or read...so recovery is much trial and error and I just can't go back to our old M. SH has been the only person to be able to get through to FWH who is self-admitted very stubborn and has low self-esteem. If anything is going to work, it will be MB and SH.

I hope this helps and gives you some info. I highly recommend SH in works in all ways: to give our M the best chance of a new M and even if it doesn't work out, I will be able to walk away okay about myself knowing I did all I could and am still an okay person. Also the people in the MB office are soooooooo nice......I have been desperate and in tears and they have always been helpful and kind.

God bless you in this struggle...may he guide you and give
you both strength for the journey.

My WW has talked to Steve once. It was almost two hours and he got through to her on several levels, but it seems like it's possible now. WW doesn't want me to waste more money or get my hopes up. But if she could fall in love with me, it would be fine with her.

I'm setting up our first appointment together for Monday. She's in Europe and I'm on West Coast. If your wife agrees, get her on the phone with Steve. He's been great for me so far. Better than any other counselor I've ever talked too. Twice the money, but 10 times the substance!

SIS

What was the goal ?. My exW was counseling with SH for a few sessions. The goal was to get SH access directly my situation and everything else was a plus. She cut the coaching after a few sessions. However I reap the benefit anyway since I needed help on my plan A/B. Also I got closure on termination my M that I have the best coaching to try.

-rh-

Well, MC is again on hold. WW cancelled our talk last night -- some excuse that she was "in a bad mood and didn't feel like talking."

<sigh>

Squiggle

Just do it yourself.
If you wait for her to be ready for it, you're gonna have a loooong wait.

Squiggle, you don't need her there to counsel! Just go ahead and do it without her; Steve will help you with tips on how to bring her into the fold. If you wait for her, you will never get there!

Squiggle,

Absolutely keep the appt with SH...You need to do this for YOU!

Don't cancelled, go and keep your appt.
-rh-

ditto the others, Squig

Counsel with Steve alone.

Your wife is a waste of time unless she actively seeks it herself.

I got my WS to reluctantly talk to Steve one time. She subsequently used this "cover" as "proof" that neither phone counseling nor ANY counseling regarding our marriage could change anything. She also argued that HN/HN proved that we could NOT meet each others ENs.

Moral of this story - what the others have said: reaching a WS under control of the Mothership is a waste, at best, and counterproductive at worst.

Follow the advice of Frank Pittman in "Private Lies." The best thing a BS can do is find something to occupy themselves until the affair runs its course. Occupying yourself in part via Steve is a good thing to do.

WAT