Hi Mimi I havent spoken with you for some time now but you have posted some good advice to me, in the past, because of what you have gone thru. I have been reading your thread about your situation and plan B. I havent posted here often because of our false recoveries (I've evidently had the "fog" syndrome). But here I am still on this roller coaster and am fading fast! Seems I cannot stop the contact with this pyscho OW and have done all I know to do! Did the plan A thing, did the "tough love" approach, sent him to her, only to have him come begging back, did the NC letter (he did this on his own), changed the emails (only to have her make new ones for him), found out by her that he met her out of town for a booty call in Jan. when confronted he said he didnt tell me because he didnt want to lose me (thats a good one huh?) Again, kicked his butt out, didnt want to leave, promised NC again (when changed emails), only two weeks this time I find out still talking to her! Told him I'm done! This is going on year 3 for this nightmare and I vowed I would not go thru this year w/her in my life! He wanted another deal: I would help him get thru missing her (needing his fix as he called it) and he would try NC AGAIN!! I agreed, dont know why, I am starting to look at him with disgust and can hardly touch him. I did however seek legal advice for Divorce and he flipped out! That story is on old board that didnt get transfered here. I would love to hear from you again to give me your insight and help me with a plan, I dont really feel I have one at this point! I love your Goddess thread BTW!

I am so sorryto hear that you are still on the rollercoaster. It's awful for us!

I think you need to do PLAN B. A strict PLAN B. I had a few false recoveries for myself. Only PLAN B worked.

My Story, 200 pages (YUK) is on CC46's thread.

Hang in there. I'll stay in touch.

I'll be away for a few days.

Thanks so much mimi for answering my post! I have been reading your thread (am now on pg 20) You were given some great advice and I esp. like Keepmv4wards advice. That is apparently the plan I am in right now. WH states that he is still NC the OW but how do you ever know for sure?? He asked me the other night:
WH: How are we doing? I've been afraid to ask!
Me: How are you doing with NC?
WH: Taking 1 day at a time. Some days are better than others.
Me: What do you do to not contact her on the bad days?
WH: I made a promise! And I just think of your smiling face.
Me: She hasnt contacted you at all? Thats unusual.
WH: Maybe she found a boyfriend.
Me: Well, I have to be honest with you, I also have good days and bad days and that scares me.
WH: Why?
Me: Because you have lied to me so much that I dont trust you at all and I am having a real hard time even liking you!
WH: Just don't give up yet.
The next day he was real clingy and affectionate and seems different, but I cant put my finger on it. For example, he does things around the house now w/o me asking, never did these things before. Cooks me dinner, makes me tea, planted me some flowers and a new tree. Asked me to come sit with him in his recliner. I know these seem small but are new. Night before last, I was late getting off work and he called my cell twice saying he was worried and missed me. Told the dog "we need to be nice to momma or she's gonna put us out on the street and what will we do then, we will be street urchins!"
I told him that the dogs really love him and his comment was: "what about momma, does she love me?"
Then another time he pinched my leg and kept saying "who loves you?" I said the dogs! He said and who else? I left that on alone.
Then last night when I got home he said "hi baby, I made you some tea". Then said "you sure are pretty!" "Have I told you that?"
So, I dont know what to think! I am just waiting for the other shoe to drop! Is this wrong? And I am really confused as to whether I should continue to distance myself from him or should I be reciprocating his advances?
I will continue to read your thread and look forward to any advice you have or any others are also welcome as this seems like a very make it or break it time!!

Hi Sabot:

You asked:



I insisted on safeguards: We share the same cellphone account. I continue to review the bill religiously. We have a new unlisted home phone. He has a new cell phone #. He calls me hourly. You get the picture. As time goes by, I trust him more. However, I can't say that I'm totally sure that there has not been any contact. I'm sure that my H is very much "in love" with me now. You just know when someone is "in love" with you by their ACTIONS.

Your H is certainly showing good signs. His actions indicate to me that there is NC with her. Trust your gut!

You said:



He has to continue to win your trust. However, certainly reciprocate his advances. It's PLAN A FOR LIFE!
Do everything you can personally do to be the best person/wife that you can be. You can then be able to say to yourself that it will be a major loss for him if he chooses not to be with you.

Hang in there!!

Thanks again mimi,
Well just as I thought, he is still in contact, I found an email today on his work email from OW:
OW: I tried to call and leave you a voice mail last night since it was tues. but vm never picked up. Oh well, guess I didnt need to do it anyway. Maybe when we can get over tues. we are getting closer to moving on without each other. Hope all is great with you.
WH: I was thinking of you allllll day. Sorry I missed your call. Yesterday I thought of you constantly. Miss ya.
OW: Ya think we will ever get over that? I think about you all the time...and just try to not act on it by calling you...or crying. Everyone says time heals everything...I sure wish it would hurry up if it is going to heal this emply place in my heart. Love and miss ya.
So I call WH, and tell him that I know he is lieing to me. He denies it, but doesnt know what I know. I asked him if he misses me like he misses her, he said your not gone! Then says he hasnt talked to her in 3 wks. I said by email either? He says no. I told him someone emailed me different and said to him about thinking about her. He said that is true, but you dont want me to tell you about that do you? He said its mean but its true! I told him that is what we agreed on and also agreed on the NC. He said yes. I said well I am tired of kicking this dead horse, I can see that you obviously dont want to be with me. He then got interrupted at work, damn good timing, and said he will call me back! What do I say or do at this point?? Help someone please!!

Oh and forgot this, His reply to her was, Ditto

Sabot:

I would sit down and talk with him and give him one last chance. Make your conditions explicit: He needs to change his cellphone number so that she cannot leave a voicemail. He needs to figure out a way to block her E-Mails. Tell him he needs to do another No Contact letter. You do the letter together and mail it. If he hedges on this at all, he is not ready to do No Contact. He will eventually. However, you will need to do PLAN B. Try the conversation first with no LB, no anger. Be assertive. Be a GODDESS who stands up for herself and will not allow this to continue. You do not contact her, Sabot! This is between you and him.

Thanks mimi, I feel so destroyed right now, he called me back and said that he really tried not to disappoint me, he said that he did talk to her yest. I asked him why he didnt tell me and he said because it hurts you. I said how did you feel? He said I felt happy and then bad because I knew I shouldnt call her. Then he said he wanted to thank me for being so understanding and doing everything I do for him that he really does appreciate it. Mimi, why do you say to give him one more chance? This is will be the 5th one! I dont know what to do? He did say he would miss me if I was gone. blah, blah, blah Help do I go to Plan B now?????

Sorry. I keep getting logged off.

Yes. You do know what to do. You are the sane one here. He is trying to beat an addiction. You are his wife and must help him if he gives you the chance.

Seems to me that you two have not previously done the needed safeguards. Do not talk to him again over the phone. Get your plan together. Sit down and have that ONE LAST CONVERSATION. Calmly and collectively, like the GODDESS that you are, you will expect for him at that moment to change his cell phone number, close off that E-Mail account and to compose another NC letter that you mail together. If he hedges at all, you give him your PLAN B letter. So get to work and start writing.

It takes them awhile to break away. It is an addiction.

Mimi, you are saving my life right now! We did the NC letter before, he changes his cell # and says he cannot change his work #. Anyway, HE is the one calling her!! So what would telling him to change his number do??

Please read my lates posts and give me some direction on which way to proceed!

This is exactly what Steve Harley told me to do when I was in your position:

In this one last conversation, ask him: "WHAT ARE YOUR PLANS TO STOP CONTACT?" Let him answer. If he has a reasonable plan,state: "WHAT CAN I DO TO HELP YOU WITH THIS? His plan MUST include another NC LETTER. If he has no reasonable plan and it seems that he wants to maintain contact, proceed with YOUR PLAN. YOUR PLAN needs to be PLAN B. That is, you will not have any contact with him until he is FINISHED WITH HER FOREVER!!! There is no need for you to throw up DIVORCE to him at this point. PLAN B and A PLAN B LETTER!!!

Mimi, this is exactly what I said to him just 3 weeks ago and he agreed! But when I ask him what his plan is, he just says I dont know!!! Yet, I can see he is trying! God, it hurts, and I just prayed about this last night! It hurts to see him tell another woman that he is thinking about her! How do you get thru this?? If I do this again, he will agree again, and I will be fooled again!

Well, guess I have learned something new, how to post url's. I started the other thread so others will talk to me also. Mimi, your advice, I want you to know is so helpful to me as I am continueing reading your 50 pgs. Why wont anyone else post on my other thread? What did I do wrong?

IMO, if his answer remains, I DON'T KNOW, then it's time for PLAN B. "I DON'T KNOW" means that he is not ready to end contact. When my H was ready to end contact, he immediately put his OWN PLAN in place. He became serious about NC and remains so to this date. He won't even drive on her side of town, going far out his way every single day. You see what I mean?

ok, why do we have to go so far to plan B to make them see we are serious, its so scarey! Will you help me with plan B letter? I have been doing a search and cant find one! You are truly the top goddess!

and when he says, because I know he will, does everytime...I dont want to leave! How do I approach this and do it with grace? If he wont leave when I give him Plan B letter, then what do I do, I am so weak, he can suck me back in with his babble!

Change your thread to URGENT HELP NEEDED in caps. That may bring out more help. Sometimes others don't post if they agree with what is being said. So if a lot of people agree with me they won't feel that they have more to offer. Don't take it personal. Do try changing your topic label. That's the label I used to use to get more help. I would yell out so to speak...

There's a letter in Surviving an Affair. The main thing is to make it a love letter, saying why you love him, how you've changed and you will not continue to share him. You don't want him until he wants you.

Your WH already knows exactly what he needs to do unlike some others.

OK, THANKS MIMI AGAIN! I didnt start a new thread because I dont agree with you, please know that, I am going to do just as you advised when I get home. WH has already called me talking real sweet, urg, I hate this!

There is no such thing as "plan A for life".... Plan A is a very lop-sided temporary Plan where one behaves as "the giver" in the relationship/ disallowing their own "taker" needs in order to STOP an affair.

If Plan A goes on too long without limits, the affairee has no reason to stop his/her affair because for them, the "giver" spouse doing the continuous Plan A is very rewarding for the WS ....

A MARRIAGE is about give ~and~ take and also about balance.

Plan A is too imbalanced to do for very long. it is also too humiliating to continue when the affair is un-ending.

I think most wives who were pretty decent as a wife before their husband's affair should only do a very brief Plan A ... followed by a very solid Plan B.

A 3 year affair that has not yet ended is an atrocious misuse of the betrayed spouse by the affairee .... and a continuing of Plan A is not going to be an effective motivator to cause the affair to end ... FOREVER.

A marriage without trust is no marriage I'd willingly continue for very long ... and that, my dear Sabot, is your situation. You have zero reason to trust your WH right now. There are no actions he has done to consistently prove his trustworthyness to you. he convinces you with his words, and your desire for this nightmare to be over takes you to the next level of false recovery.

My advice?

Get your Plan B ducks lines up.... and expose the continuing affair right before you lower the boom of a very dark Plan B .... where YOU protect yourself from the knawing knowledge that your husband has not, is not and probably will not put YOUR best interests above his desires to contact OW.

but.... that's just my opinion .... take it or leave it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pep