Ok,, here goes.. I have another thread (screwed up), but a couple people told me I should post a new one, and update what's going on.

My wife decided we were over back around 20 Jan (due to many issues which I thought were fixable, but the biggie is that she had an EA).. We stayed in an in-house separation for about 5 weeks. She moved out 1 March still wanting to work on our M. By 11 March she had decided that nothing but divorce would do, and she has been focused on that ever since. Found out on 29 March that the EA had been over with for awhile, but also found out she had emotionally really been hooked on this guy...

Met with a couples counselor on 4 April to discuss co-parenting and issues with my daughter (she's having a rough time with this).. We've been having the kids every 7 days (1 week each). The counseling session went well, and my W even agreed that she wanted to get rid of all the "garbage" that is hanging between her and I.. The pains, angers, wounds, scars, etc... She told the Counselor that she would like to deal with the garbage and not have to carry it around with her. Maybe this isn't good - but I took this as a HUGE positive in any possibility for us in the future.. The meeting ended well, and we hugged, and left.

Here's where I'm starting to wonder about things... She has a male friend J.. I've asked her on more than one occasion if anything was going on between them, and she said "God no, he's just a friend, and he's a goober". Her friends also say there's nothing going on.. But I don't know. He is hanging around her and following her like a puppy dog.. He is always over at her place... She frequents his place.. She made a comment to me that our kids have made some new friends - his two boys!! She is always borrowing his truck.. and they're always running around together in his vehicles with her driving. She also is much more subdued and distant to me when he's around. This is the kicker... I happened to have to go by her house this morning due to dropping off a cat, and I saw her car in the driveway, and his car parked in front of the house on the street!!!!!!!

Now how am I supposed to deal with that??? It may be all innocent, but all the evidence is sure pointing to something going on... Up to this point I have bent over backwards to accomodate her.. to keep the peace, and to show her that I am doing everything in my power to save our marriage.

Some people have told me that I needed to put a powerful Plan B into effect immediately. Which appears to be a complete separation from her.. No contact at all if possible.. although we have two kids, so I don't think that's possible... but I also don't want her to think she can have her cake and eat it too... Right now, she knows I'm here for her... maybe I need to change that thought.. but how??

I so very much want to reconcile with her and keep our family together, but I truly am not sure what to do at this point??? I'm doing my best to work on me,,, but I must say I'm feeling very weak and vulnerable right now.. I don't have the circle of friends like she has... It's just me and God... and all of you incredible people on MB.

Please help with any comments, advice and words of encouragement you can muster... Again, I hope for my marriage to be saved, and for her to come back to me... but I think I'm asking for a miracle at this point. HELP... Thanks.

Almost all the literature and anecdotal evidence shows that the BIGGEST reason for a long term ( greater than 5 years) M breakup is usually due to infidelity.I think that if you approach your situation as if that it were the case, it makes your path easier to focus on. May I suggest the following URl .

http://www.troubledwith.com/Web/groups/p...20to%20Consider

JD,

It sure seems that this guy "J" is a new EA partner. It sort of the old saying "If it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it is very likely a duck." I think this is another EA, perhaps of convenience, but clearly it is affecting your interactions with her, so it qualifies even if she does not think so.

You can do a plan B with children. It requires a intermediary or an agreement to email or talk ONLY about the children, but other than that you do nothing for her.

Please think about it.

God Bless,

JL

Cymanca,,

Thank you for your response.. I have saved that URL on my favorites list and am checking it out... Thank you. Hopefully it will help in some way..

Quick update - My daughter called me to say goodnight last night.. I asked her if she had slept over at my Wifes friend Dora's house the previous night, and she acted real strange.. She said umm I don't know.. let me ask momma... I took this as very odd.. Then my W got on the phone and asked what the line of questioning was all about.. That kind of upset me.. I said "I have a right to know where my kids are sleeping".. She said, but why are you asking... I didn't want to argue with her, but then I asked her if her car was broken, because I saw John's car parked out front of her house that morning... Well, then she went off the handle.. Saying I was snooping and checking up on her.. even though I was not.. it just so happened that my route took me by her place yesterday because of dropping off the cat at the shelter..

Well, after my kids said goodnight, Jen and I talked again..She basically told me she isn't believing the things I've been doing have been for innocent reasons.. but that I'm checking up on her.. She said that what she did in her life was none of my business.. I told her that it would always be my business to a point because of the kids.. She said she just wanted this over with so the kids don't have false hope, and so she can have anyone she wants over without having to explain it to anyone...

She did say again that she was open to sitting down with the couples counselor and I to work out the issue between us - she said she didn't want to carry that with her.. Maybe this is just so she can unload the guilt, I don't know, but I see this as one of the very few positives that could help her to see and feel the love she used to have for me..

She said I didn't understand the pain she was feeling.. and she started crying.. This increased until she finally said she couldn't talk anymore, and hung up on me.. I told her I was not perfect, but that I was doing my best.. and I never meant to hurt her, and that I love her.

So now what do I do?? It seems that no matter what good progress I feel I'm making with myself - I stil find ways to screw up her feelings for me... Should I just give up on my marriage?? It seems there is no hope - except for the counseling thing... HELP...

I do feel that there is something going on with this "friend" John, but she again said last night NO... I just don't know...

JL,,

Thank you.. Yes - I think this is another EA also, and very likely will turn into something more, probably as soon as the divorce is final..

If you look at my reply to cymanca, you'll see some of the downturn of events from last night.. From bad to worse...

I guess, other than the opportunity and her openess to go to counseling - I don't have much to lose at this point if I do a Plan B.. I am going to try to formulate it, just as soon as I understand it more.. This is going to be tough.. I'm half expecting her to hand me the papers tonight when I pick up the kids... We'll see I guess.. Maybe she'll just send the certified mail instead if it might be painful for her to hand them to me... As sad as it is, I'm expecting it very soon.. She's just so angry and bitter at me - it's almost as if I don't know her.. very scary.. I don't feel I deserve this level of treatment.

So what do you think JL?? Should I just do a Plan B and basically get my mind set on giving up on the marriage?? Do you think all hope is gone?? How do I reach her and the love she used to have for me?? Is that even possible??

Please help... and thank you in advance for reaching out and helping me.. I appreciate it more than you know...

JD, our wives are speaking some of the same things. My wife is flying home from overseas to file divorce paperwork next week. I can't stop her, so I'm continuing MC with her through Steve Harley.

If she's accusing you of snooping, she's hiding something. If there was nothing to hide, she wouldn't worry about getting caught. Sound logical. My wife has tried that tactic with me. Don't let her take you down the guilt path. You have done nothing wrong.

If she says you don't understand use that as the lead to say, "you may be right, that's why the MC is important to me, because I want to understand" Stay calm and cool. Don't get excited. Act surprised when she overeacts to simple questions. Don't be so apologetic when you're not doing anything wrong.

Don't act so openly suspicious/insecure around John. But BE suspicious.

Just to share. My wife recently bought the OM an airplane ticket from U.S. to Europe and didn't tell me. She's only admitted that he'll come over when our son is not there, but won't say when or how. She hasn't been in physical contact with OM in about a month, but I'm sure there will be in two weeks! And I know I can't stop it.

Take care of yourself and your kids. You need to find a hobby to occupy your extra time so it looks like you're moving on a little bit. It should be something physical to burn some energy. I've been lifting weights and playing tennis. It's summer, get on a softball team. Buy a bike and go riding. It's fun to do with the kids too.

Make yourself more attractive.

SIS

Hey Sleepless,,

Thanks for the advice.. I am trying.. not doing too well so far.. I have to admit - I'm starting to get somewhat angry at her and bitter..

She just called me this morning to [censored] me out about getting my daughters new sneakers all dirty (we went to the beach this weekend). I told her I didn't have any other sneakers for her to wear - that they were already dirty, but that I would go out and get her a new pair tonight.. and all of this after I brought the kids to her this morning, put them in bed with her - put her puppy out, and set her alarm.. I do all that, and all she can do is call me because she's "so mad" at me about the sneakers.. Give me a break!! I just can't win with her.. and all the while she is carousing around with her new "friend" that is obviously my replacement.. So she can just toss our 12 years aside like it's nothing, and jump right into a relationship with this guy.. and I'm working so hard to save our marriage and be the man I need to be - I'm being so nice to her... It is starting to make me sick... She is really starting to disgust me... sounds weird, since I love her with all my heart and want nothing more than to be reunited with her, and save our family..

What am I supposed to do with her?? I'm not sure how do deal with her at this point. She still hasn't handed me the divorce papers yet, but I am expecting them any minute.

Anyway - thanks for the advice.. any take on my currentl situation?? Any help is appreciated...

You met with acouples counselor on April 4. I haven't heard of one session being all that's needed. Do you have a follow up appointment? If not, make one.

Tell your wife when it is. Ask her to be there. Be sure this comes up as a topic.

And if wife won't go, go by yourself anyway. And tell the counselor.

You can't make the wife change. And she may not listen to you. But she might listen to someone else.

J.D.S.,

Going to couples counseling while she is still involved with another man and non-committal about saving/rebuilding the marriage is not only a waste of time but an excuse for her to say that 'I tried, but it was hopeless' in order to soothe her conscience and look good with those closest to her. It is nothing more than window dressing INMNSHO.

TMCM

You know you are making her crazy with guilt and angry at the shame she feels when your kindness is repaid with anger, hatred and scorn. Call me crazy, but that shows me an intact value system(very skewed at the moment I will admit). Kill her with kindness. It will make you feel good knowing you have acted like a gentleman, father and loving husband. Let her deal with her demons in her own way.

Hey everyone,,

Thank you for the posts.. Things have changed quite a bit since then.. I think you're right about the kindness, and I intend to be a nice a person as I can be.. but.. She served me with the papers on the afternoon of 11 April.. So basically we will be divorced around mid-June.. So very sad.. When I sat down with her and the papers, I asked her "are you absolutely sure you want this?? She said yes.. I said "You're sure there are no other options you can do other than divorce?" She said, "Like what - go back and be in the same situation and be unhappy".. I said no, but how about Marriage Counseling, or "anything"... I said, "we haven't even "tried" anything at this point".

We actually had about 15 minutes of very open tenderness.. She and I were holding hands, and she (we) was crying.. I knelt down next to her and we hugged and held each other.. She was rubbing my hand and the side of my face.. I asked her if she felt we could put an effort into finding our friendship again... she said yes...

But - then when we went to the one and only couples counselor meeting two days later to discuss the issues between us and to try to find our friendship again - she acted like she didn't know why she was there.. and her "friend brought her there, and picked her up.. The whole counseling session was a blow-out.. The counselor, obviously not a christian counselor, sided with her and said that I needed to accept the divorce and get over it.. That it was way too soon to try to work on "any" issues we had.. and that if she wanted me over to her place that it was "none of my business"... Can you believe that??

Then, we left and outside the building we had a more caring discussion between us.. She again said she felt we could work on our friendship, and she said she was open to having sex with me as long as there was no committment.. I thought about this, and then on Friday, the 15th, I brought our kids to her, put them in bed with her, and put some roses and a friendship card on her bedside table.. In the card I put a certificate for hot steamy sex with no committment.. Later that day she called about our taxes, and I asked her about it, but she said she was just kidding about the sex. This hurt a great deal.. She said she didn't think it was a good idea.. She was sitting right next to her friend in his truck as we were having this conversation.. I'm sure it's a big hoot for them to talk about. This guy is a skank for chasing a married woman - and with two kids in the mix... Oh yeah - he's got all these high morals she keeps talking about... Yeah right !

I did get a chance to tell her what I thought about the divorce process she was taking though.. I told her that Yes, I have made mistakes, but I was doing all I could to take responsibility for what I've done, and to make amends and ask for forgiveness. I told her that the marriage is ending because of "her" decision to do so. That none of the issues between us are so catastrophic that they can't be healed - and she actually agreed to that.. She said she knows we could fix our problems, but that she doesn't "want to". Holy crap!! Then I told her she will have to live with the fact that it is her choice to focus on other men instead of me and our marriage.. Her choice to lose her children for 1/2 of their growing years, and her choice to pull the kids world apart and make them live a life they never should have had to live.. That they should be in "one" home, with "one" set of parents.. and that I felt she was jerking me around and playing with my feelings dangling the sex stuff out in front of me, and then pulling it back.. Parading her boyfriend around in front of me all the time like it shouldn't bother me. It felt good to get that out, but again, I don't think it made a bit of difference to her.

Anyway - she and I have gone from the tender moment last Monday - the now I don't know if I can even be friends with her.. I hope we don't come out of this hating each other, but I feel I need to completely disengage from her - with as little contact as possible.. Evidently the divorce is going to happen regardless, so I guess no matter what I do, it's not going to change much.

I guess I'm headed into a major Plan B.. and I guess if we could get through this divorce at this point without a huge war in the courts with lawyers and everything else, then I would be amazed. So very sad.. Any and all of your comments and advice would be so appreciated. Thanks.