Hey all-

I've been a lurker for a while, and a few of you may know me from the other board as 'Owl'.

Quick background-
Married nearly 17 years when A occurred, have FOUR teenaged kids in the house.
Wife had an @2month long online EA last year...d-day was 05-11-04. I had suspected something was going on for a while, but finally got my 'proof' by logging her chat sessions with OM. When I confronted her, OM bought her plane tickets to fly to live with him...even though they'd never met in person. I talked to her the day she was supposed to leave, OM knew I was there and that she was not 100% positive on what she should do, so told her to stay here. She stayed, and we began an 'in-house' seperation while we were figuring out what to do next. The d-day discovery pretty much ended the actual affair, and my wife went into a HARD 3 week+ withdrawl, but at the end of it immediately decided to work on R with me. During this time, I'd actually done a decent plan A, although I'd never heard of MB then. We were attending MC, but it was a farce due to ongoing contact, withdrawl from the A, and a counselor who didn't understand infidelity.

Contact w/ OM continued sporadically for almost 2 months via email before finally ending...during that time she was following script and wanting to keep him as 'just a friend', which of course I was adamant against.

We've been in good recovery ever since. She is absolutely glad that she stayed, there has been NC for sure since June, and she's got no interest or desire to ever let this happen again. We've been in MC with a great counselor since June as well, and things are going VERY well.

Here's the thing. I have done most of the work in recovering our M from this. Have actually been applying a LOT of MB rules, even though I'd not heard of this site until a few months ago. LOTS of work on EN's, mostly on my part, but a decent amount on hers as well. There are still areas she could improve in, but I'm not unhappy with where we are. Our counselor is astounded at how well we've done, and how we've instinctively done so many right things (he says instinct...I say intervention...God's hand has been all over repairing and re-building this marriage).

But...I do still struggle with what happened at times. I HAVE forgiven her. When I think back to then, I don't feel anger, not at her, or even at the OM at this point. (He actually did do some of the 'right' things at the end, that ended the affair...he'll never be my friend again, but at least the hate is gone.) Like anyone else who has been in my shoes, I still have the occasional 'triggers', and since we're coming up on our first anniversary of 'd-day' now, what happened does cross my mind, and I get bummed out by it. I'm sad at times, and the hurt isn't completely gone...nor do I actually expect it to be for a while.

My wife deals with painful life events by acting like they never happened...by simply 'forgetting' about them. I deal with things by working them through, and eventually there's nothing left to deal with.

She's unable to understand that my still hurting over what happened occasionally, by my not being able to 'forget' about it, has nothing to do with forgiving her. And she still gets defensive about it if something brings up how I feel on the subject. Of course, that's kinda natural...she does feel guilty about what happen, she deeply regrets it, and wishes she could 'go back and take it away'.

How can I get her to understand that what I'm feeling is normal, that it's got nothing to do with forgiving her, that it's just part of the healing that I'm still going through? We've got MC today (we still do monthly sessions), and I'm thinking of how I can present this in MC so that it's not a LB...or how to get our counselor (who doesn't use MB per se, but a LOT of his counseling uses the same basic methods) to help me help HER not to feel "LB'ed" when she knows that I'm still recovering from this?

Thanks in advance, all.

Karegh (Owl)

hi. does your W know about MB, does she ever read here?

cuz your post will help me when i am having a hard time "remembering" i.e. staying patient.

She knows about MB's principles, and knows that there is a site here, but doesn't come to the site or forums. She feels that she's pretty much past the whole thing, so she doesn't really seek anything else than our monthly MC. She's not completely happy with ME posting either, because she feels its a way that I'm 'holding on' to what happened. I'm not sure if I agree with that thought or not. Sometimes I do wonder if that's the case, other times it still seems like good therapy.

Karegh, it takes anywhere from 12 to 24 months to recover from an affair. It is a major trauma that I would put up there with the death of a child. It is the worst betrayal a spouse can experience and it will take what it takes for you to recover.

It has been my personal experience, and a common pattern that I see around here, that the period around 8-10 months is usually the CLIMAX of recovery. It is the worst time. It is when the relief at saving the marriage has worn off and anger sets in. I asked myself often if I were a "chump" for "settling for damaged goods." This anger was a normal part of recovery. After feeling this fury for a few months, I started thinking about it less and less until I thought about it RARELY. Perhaps, you are entering this last phase, Karegh, where you can feel some relief.

Please explain this to your W and tell her that you need her help and support in recovering from her affair. Let her know that you don't want to think about it anymore than SHE DOES, but you can't just flip a switch and make it all go away. The least she can do is do whatever it takes to get you through this trauma.

Melody-

I think that we're actually past that point in our case. I'm NOT angry...now, 4-6 months ago I was having those feelings pretty big time. Lots of thoughts of retribution on the OM, was pretty angry about the whole thing...but not really feeling that way now. I think our recovery has really been pretty accelerated compared to a lot of the stories I've read...I've been lurking here for a while, and over on LS as well, so I've seen a good amount of posts from people in all kinds of similar circumstances. My FWW came around out of the worst of the fog pretty quickly compared to most...I think that in some ways, the flight to the OM got deeply linked to the A itself...so when she didn't get on that plane, it was a death blow to the A, and it just took it a while to finally die off. I didn't know enough to expect the severity of her withdrawl from that, and I have to admit it was VERY hard for me to deal with at the time. But, I did a pretty good job of keeping cool during it all. And when my wife DID make the choice to work on our marriage, she didn't do it 'half-heartedly'. One thing I can say about my wife...for good or bad, she NEVER does anything half-heartedly!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I don't think we've done a bad job by moving so fast, on the contrary, I credit my wife for learning from her mistake and moving on, and I credit the fact that we had many years of good marriage to look back on as a base to build from.

So its not anger I'm dealing with now. It's more of a profound sadness that hits me a lot of times, when I think back on what happened. When I see a movie that is a trigger, or think about the timeframe (we're right now at the point where the A started to pick up steam, and we're hitting a lot of 'anniversaries' where I look and see 'hey, this time last year the were...), I just get bummed thinking about what happened, what lead up to it, how hard it all was, and what I'd feel like if it happened again. And it's not a crippling depression kind of thing...I think it's probably pretty normal. I just need to get my wife to understand that somehow.

Thanks for the advice tho, friend. It helps to chat with those that have been through something similar themselves.

Karegh,in thinking about what my husband endured from my A's, I have seen many emotions in him as he tried to move past all of this. Sometimes it's resentment, sometimes it's a sadness and sometimes he just blocks it all. I think it must be pretty normal to feel all what you are feeling. But, through all of the emotions he has, I do try to have an understanding for what they are and I do ask him to talk about it. He had many many triggers from the first A and thought about it in some way every day for months. I would try to help your wife understand these feelings that you are having and just ask her to listen and ask her to help you move past this together. She may be doing ok, but you are still in this together and should be working on it "together" to have full recovery. Just my thoughts that you could share the "together" part with her in the MC today.

You know, in so many ways, our stories kind of mirror one another. It'll be a year for me soon, but I still have days when it all seems kind of fresh. On those days, I find myself astonished all over again that my DH could have ever done anything so selfish and stupid. And every now and then, I'll still get a little weepy over it. There are even times when I'm mad at him and I can't believe I took him back.

I think it's the knowledge that he stopped loving me, that has always bothered me the most. How can I expect that he'll NEVER stop loving me again? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I know realistically that he was affected by his own internal issues at the time. The reality of it is that he really didn't love anybody....not the cam-ho that he was involved with, and not even himself. I know we had problems that we have worked out. But on a bad day, I still can't shake it.

I suppose that I'll just have to wait it out, like Melody said...and see if it eventually passes. I have to say, I have ALOT more good days than bad ones now.:D

Not where you are yet, but thought I would share something I read in "Not Just Friends". She recommends trying to form new memories on those "bad" anniversaries so that in future years you have some new good memories to look back on instead of the A memories. It's what I plan to do this year because I don't want Thanksgiving and my birthday to bring up bad memories every year.

Please consider the following:

1. Express to your W that you cherish the day you married her.
2. Reassure her that love, understanding, and patience are the keys to both of your recoveries.
3. Express to her your hope that one day she will feel emotionally safe and will open up and share her deepest thoughts and feelings with you.
4. Make your acts of affections genuine and not as vehicles for SF [sexual fulfillment].
5. Make the committment with yourself to be strong if she finally opens up and shares with you something that is not particularly pleasant. If you do, it will show her that your words are not hollow ones, and will pave the way for her to further open up to you.

There are probably a miriad more things you can do but those 5 are a pretty good start, don't you think so?

TMCM

that is a extraordinary list.

Hi TMCM.

L

You tell your spouse that the pain hasn't gone away. You tell her that you still have your moments, hours, days, weeks where the feelings of the past are very difficult to bear. You give her the opportunity to comfort you as well as the opportunity for her to understand how you have been hurt by her decisions.

I know it is difficult for a BS to understand but if she is still with you, if she is doing her best to repair,improve, renew and recover then I believe she never stopped loving you. I know it "feels" like that but if she is remorseful and desires your forgiveness then you can rest assured that she did not stop loving you. You can also count on her loving you even in death.

AS you are work with a MFC and IC you will be be able to use that as a forum to share your feelings with each other. Counseling will help both of you see what you did not see before the A.

Keep explaining your hurt to her...do not keep it to yourself
H

bump

Well, counseling went well on Friday. Was a bit tougher than we've had in a while, but that was actually a good thing. Between the counseling and a few other things that went on this weekend, I think I've got my wife starting to understand how you can still feel pain from an event, but not still feel anger or blame about the event for the person who 'caused' it.

It's interesting, but it our counselor has really developed an interest in MB, and it's basic principles. We talked about it a good deal in our session as well, and he has commented about how we've used it in our own recovery very well, even when we were just doing things on our own prior to knowing about this site.

Don't know why, but had something of a down weekend here. Usually, counseling puts us in a better mood, but seems like we both got kinda bummed out this weekend. Between that and dealing with kid issues, this weekend wasn't as much relaxing and fun as I'd hoped.

You know, my wife asked me to let her know when I was having a rough time thinking about things, or when I knew an 'anniversary' of something was coming up, but I'm kinda struggling with what she can do to help me deal with this kind of stuff sometimes. I'm just hoping that we can make it through the next six weeks without too much stress...our D-day anniversary is coming up, and I'm just not sure how to make those days into something positive instead of negative.

More later. Thanks for listening to my ramblings all.

Karegh, that's great that you had a good counseling session and that your wife is starting to see "how you can still feel pain from an event, but not still feel anger or blame about the event for the person who 'caused' it."

I understand about the "kid issues" and how it can really change a weekend sometimes. Sometimes it would be easier if we didn't have to deal with that and both the recovery of an "A", but that is life and it can be hard, can't it?

It's interesting to me that you as the BS, remember all the anniversaries and such. My husband doesn't really dwell on that. I even asked him the other day if he knew what day D-day was. He had an idea, but did not know the exact date.

Keep us updated on how things are moving along.

Its great to see that you are doing very well. I have read ur posts on LS. I am a FWS. I can understand what you are saying as I saw my H the same this morning. We are 4 months since DDay. We always used to believe we are made for each other and many people around us thought we are the perfect couple.
Since yesterday morning my H is bothered by one question that would people think the Clintons are perfect couples. Then he told me today morning the thought that I might have been attracted to anyone else just upsets and saddens him a lot. I really understand all this and he really understands that I am truly remorseful and he also believes that I will never do this again.
The question that I have for you since u are almost an year into recovery do u feel u both are made for each other even though she made a mistake of getting involved with someother guy and is really remorseful now?
I guess ur wife understands that u are going thru a lot of pain and I guess she would also be in a lot of pain and shame for doing this to you and herself and her kids, if your wife had to support you at times when your triggers are activated what should she do or say that will make you feel better?
What would you kids think and learn from your marriage in the long run?

GM
My Mistake
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...;page=3#2685104

GM-
What's your moniker over on LS? Just curious my friend.

Well, to answer your questions, I'd have to say that yes, my wife and I both still feel like we were 'made for each other', even after what we've been through. I think in some ways, she feels even MORE that way now than she did prior to the A. Because our love was strong enough to survive it. Because she recognizes that not everyone would have done what I've done, and still wanted to work through things. I think that she's got a lot more appreciation for me than she had in the past. And my feelings about her have never wavered...there's never been a doubt in my mind that she's my love...my only love.

I think that my kids have learned that marriage is more than just two people falling in love with each other, that it requires work to maintain, and to ensure that it doesn't have the kind of problems that ours did. I think that they've learned a LOT about the boundaries you have to setup with people OUTSIDE of the marriage to keep things like this from happening. I also think that they've learned that TRUE LOVE can overcome any obstacle. They've also learned that their parents are only human beings.

I can't say it's been a 'positive' experience for them...but it's been a good learning experience for them.

I was known as VeryRemorseful on LS. Its really good to know that you both are recovering very well. We both are not doing quite so well since yesterday.

I have another question Owl. How did u manage your triggers? And what would you expect your wife to do when you get these triggers?

I cry a lot thinking of whatever I did or whenever my H says that now he does not get happy thoughts about us. I am really sorry for whatever I did I keep on telling him this but someimes this does not help. I wish there was some magic pill which will erase those days in my life. He gets very upset when I cry. Does your wife also cry a lot and get upset when you discuss your thoughts with her? Do you get upset and mad when she cries?

If you don't mind me asking, what site is LS? Is it another marriage site that could possibly be helpful to me?

Thanks! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well, as far as managing the triggers, I really don't have a lot of advice that I can provide. Maybe just that you both need to TALK about things, not let them bottle up. When your husband is sad, don't let him just sit there and be down...talk with him about it, and ask what you can do to help him.

My wife doesn't really cry much about the whole thing anymore. She did a ton of crying when she first was in the withdrawl, but hasn't really cried much about it since. She did for the first time in a long time last week in counseling...and I dealt with it the way I always have...I held her in my arms and let her cry herself out as needed. I've never really gotten angry about her crying or being upset about the whole thing...again, there's no reason why I would expect that she'd be happy that we went through the whole thing.

Let me ask you this...what specifically are you crying about? Remorse that it happend, guilt, regret for what it did to your marriage? Or are you still missing the OM, and the feelings that were generated by the A? Does your husband know what it is that you're feeling right now?

2B- LS (loveshack.org) is another forum site for relationships and such...and it's not based on any specific principles as MB is. There aren't nearly as many active users there, and it's a lot less modereated than this site. That means you're very likely to get a number of negative posts as well as people who are trying to help. I personally think that you're more likely to get help here at MB.

I cry becos of the way I messed up all our lives. I cry becos I broke all the beliefs that we held about each other. I cry becos I never meant to hurt my H and myself so much. I cry for the loss that we had in our Relationship. Thanks so much for giving your point of view.
I was not into withdrawal. I liked talking to this OM that was it & somehow felt good talking to him. I realized immediately sfter the kissing thing happened that he wants to just have sex and he is another Casanova trying to have another conquest. I told the OM this a couple of times.
So I am at this point not able to understand what can fix whatever I have done.