WH is still in such a fog. I think he has maintained NC with OW. He puts so many barriers up to communicating. When we do speak even if its about the weather his body language is totally closed. Arms folded and not making eye contact.

Just an example; He had talked about an up coming raise he was hoping for. When his pay stub came it was a little more than normal but not what he had hoped for. At that time he made the comment "I hope THATS not my raise!" Yesterday he came home with his back turned to me he said "that money was the raise." I wasn't even sure he was speaking to me and I didn't respond right away.Then he got angry "gee, congratulations on your raise. Yea thanks for all your support." Then he walked out of the room. As I think of it I don't think there was any correct response. Any ideas on breaking through the negativity?

Hi C42

Its a hard time, I remember.

Withdrawal is horrible for a WS and that makes it horrible for a BS. All kinds of wierd dynamics at play. Guilt, regret, needfulness, morality, decency, jonesing for teh OP or the A, pridefulness....

In my case I continued plan A until Squid( my FWW) started to behave like a human instead of an alien.

"K" from these boards taught me to POJA even when only I was interested in it.

FNCJ taught me not to discount th price of re-entry into my heart and my life.

ARK^^ taught me to behave as if I was a lighthouse, guiding a safe path to safety for the circling, tiring, about to ditch WS.

All the lifers agreed and taught me patience. It took a long time for my M to get screwed up, its not gonna be fixed overnight.

With NC in place , withdrawal DOES pass. Be as supportive as you can but DO NOT let go of your boundaries. Hurt is hurt, and poor behaviour is poor behaviour.

when squid spat some poison at me, I would ask her to explain, and if she wouldn't I'd take myself away from her.

" Well, I can't allow myself to be treated that way, darl', so I'm taking the kids bowling. Be great if you came, but neither the kids not me need more shouting and sarcasm, thanks. In any case perhaps we can finishthat doscussion later ?".

With a firmly help NC and a firmly adhered Plan A, Squid droppped out of the fog to breathable levels afer around three months. Took six to become almost fog free.

Providing a safe place where Squid could tell me uncomfortable truths and not feel at risk of punishment or judgment was SO imporant to her opening up.

I dunno if thats the same for WHs as for WWs.

I hope some of this makes sense.

All blessings.

Bob P. Did you have to listen to Squids feelings for the other man.

Did you have to listen to how she was in love with him, and you ruined it by sending OM away?

Did you have to listen to how she would love to have OM's baby if she were pregnant so that she could have a child with someone she loved?

When you contacted the OM's girlfriend, did she question your integrity and tell you that you aren't the man she thought she knew.

Did she tell you that she can't trust YOU anymore?

Sorry it sounds interagtory, but I'm really curious if I'm the only one who has heard these things and survived!? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I've heard all of these things in the last month and not gotten upset. I don't know how, but I wonder if curious can expect the same thing.

SIS

Well, I'm a FWW. 18 months since d-day, 2 years since the end of the A.

My H heard this from me the day after d-day. I love the OM, my heart is his, I'd leave if he wanted me, I'm hurting more than you.

NOW, the good news, after strict NC (one accidental lapse about 2 months ago and I MEAN accidental) I can't for the life of me remember what I saw in the OM, what I was thinking, where my befuddled brain WAS.

My H did a stellar, stellar Plan A. He acknowledged all the foggy crap I spoke and he was there constantly with his love and forgiveness.

It was hell and I mean utter, complete HELL for both of us for at least a year. I took FOREVER to stop being foggy and my H took forever to trust me, to believe a word I said and to finally feel safe and loved again.

But I have to say one more thing - unless the WS is fully committed to NC, to saving their marriage, to doing their part the best they can - forget it. I am a VERY strong person and I was determined to make my marriage work.

Jen

Bob P. Did you have to listen to Squids feelings for the other man.
yes endlessly. I held her as she cried for him.

Did you have to listen to how she was in love with him, and you ruined it by sending OM away?
"he is the second great love of my life after you, just admit it"

Did you have to listen to how she would love to have OM's baby if she were pregnant so that she could have a child with someone she loved?

No, that I didn;t hear. But DID hear what a wonderful stepfather he would make to my kids. And I had to not kill her with a scotch bottle too !

When you contacted the OM's girlfriend, did she question your integrity and tell you that you aren't the man she thought she knew.
She accused me of faithlessness, untrustworthiness, said I'd thrown away every chance of recovering our marriage, that it wasthe excuse OM had been waiting for to call her to live with him, and that I killed Bambi's mother in the movie...man the spite was so viciious, I nearly cracked. Seriously.

Did she tell you that she can't trust YOU anymore?
Many many times. Thast where PORH became invaluable to me. When I was absolutely transparently trustworthy in my dealings with primarily Squid, but also everyone else, it disarmed her accusations of dishonesty. She seached high and low for evidence of ME having an affair for MONTHS too !

I got very upset, but my studies of the dynamics of affairs informed my patience. I think Curious, ike the rest of us proactive BS should batten down the hatches and detach a little while the vicious, spiting thing writes and gnaws on its own sspite and pain until the fog starts to thin to breathable levels.

Confused,

I went through, I hate to say it, close to a year of that behavior with my exH, who had an A. Here's what I think, and I could be wrong - but I think that part of the difficulty communicating with one's partner after an A is that the two of you have lost that innate ability. During the time of your H's A, it could be that the OW met these needs. You have to learn how to hone your communication skills, perhaps in a different way. As for myself, I began communicating with exH by engaging him in discussions of similar interests, such as an aspect of politics that I knew he enjoyed debating, or a painter I knew he admired, etc. You much take baby steps, my dear.

Even though exH and I ended up in a D, we did in the end learn how to communicate with each other in a friendly manner. We learned how to joke, laugh, cry together, express wishes and dreams. This takes a lot of time and patience on your behalf. I will emphasize that again - time and patience.

Thanks so much for responses.
bOb pure*
It is such a comfort to me to know I'm not alone and we can get through this. I hope my WH comes around as Squid did for you. You must be an incredible man with a tremendous amount of patience and strength.

SIS
I pray for you alot there is so much hurt and turmoil in your sitch. WH does not even speak of OW its like she never existed and nothing ever happened. To me that is his protection of her...so nothing bad can be said about her. Which believe it or not I have NEVER said anything bad about her to him. He just shuts down. He doesn't trust me. He asks who I'm on the phone with or what took so long at the food store. But if I ask him I'm being unreasonable and smothering him..

Kiwi
Thanks for the WS perspective. It gives me hope.

damascena
The OW did fill that need for him. And he knows that is what I want most from him...I always have. So thats what he witholds when he is angry.

Yesterday was opening day for little league baseball. My ds (12) has had a bat or ball in his hand since he was 3. So baseball is a big deal for us. WH is still pres. of athletic assoc. (His resignation is effect first week of May)OW did resign she was in town but didn't show up at parade or game. WH is also assist coach to son's team which he LOVES. Seeing him in that element he was so happy. He even asked me to help him a few times during the day.

We got a lot of support from the community. It was our first really public appearance since exposure. I got alot of feedback like "Its nice to see you all here." No body seemed to miss the OW.

My ds had 2 of his team mates sleepover and we all watched movies and joked around.

Everything feels good and then he shuts down. He won't look at me, he puts distance between us. I feel rejected everytime he does it...which is a lot. My fear is that I won't have love left for him when/if he gets out of the fog. How do I preserve that?

This Sunday was a little better than last. In previous posts I mentioned that a group of us 13-15 adults would get together every Sunday with our families. The kids would play, everyone would bring food and we would spend most of the day together watching NASCAR. This has gone on for the last 3 years. OW and her family were part of this circle.
Since exposure there is no circle and no more Sunday get togethers for anyone. Its sad that they can't see how their behavior effected so many people.

Anyway, this Sunday WH cleaned out garage (pool house in summer), I worked on cleaning out the basement. And the kids had friends over biking and skateboarding, it seems our house is the place to hang out. So there was a lot of activity and no dead space for forced interaction. I did not ask for his help or his opion on what I accomplished, but at the end of the day he made a point of going down to lock the storm doors. He was down there for a while so he must have been checking it out. He made no comment. I guess he couldn't find anything bad to say. lol.

This is tough. When I discovered A, confronted WH,he moved out, things were is such crisis I guess adrenalin had kicked in. This feels like slow torture waiting for the fog to clear and to move in a positive direction. I know there has been progress. I have to keep remembering BABY STEPS.

You must be an incredible man with a tremendous amount of patience and strength.

Nah. Just a praying man. I pray you be blessed as I have been.

You might be confusing "the fog" with "the problems in the M".

"The fog" is about his relationship with the OW and the fantasies surrounding the relationship. The fog will eventually lift and he will have a clearer understanding OW and him.

"Problems in the M" are not fantasies, but real. You and he should resolve the problems. The problems may seem new to you because he likely was suppressing his feelings about the M and thus didn't discuss the problems with you.

She told me that she hadn't been happy in YEARS...and now I'd taken away her only chance to be happy again. I'll never forget her answering a call from him while I was in her motel room...she told him "I love you", and I cringed. When I cringed, she apologetically signed ILU to me without even thinking about it.
Close...I listened to her tell me that she knew what a wonderful father he was to his children (two boys, from a previous marriage) and regret that she couldn't give him one. (She had a tubal ligation after our last set of twins) That, and what a wonderful step father he was going to be for our four kids!


She couldn't BELIEVE that I had the gall to call the OM and ask him to talk to her about having her call her sister. How could I possibly expect her to listen to her sister, after all, her sister has been jealous of our marriage for years! (LOL...I'd forgotten about that one, talk about an 'alienism'!)

Absolutely. After all, didn't YOU have a thing going with someone online!! (LOL...she convinced herself I'd been in an EA with somone online...totally untrue and not founded at all, but it was how she 'justified' what she had done)

Straight out of the WS's Handbook for the Mentally Obscured. 100% fogtalk, not worth the effort to listen to. My wife doesn't even remember saying half of them now, and can't imagine what she was thinking when she'd said the other half.

Jimmy Mac you have a point, but I think he is still in withdraw and I believe his thinking is skewed from the fog. His perception of how wonderful OW is and how awful I am are bit off center. You are right there were/are definitely problems in our marriage.

He is not open to MC at this point. I’ve been avoiding R talks, or asking questions about A. Our communication for the last several years has been strained. A lot of the strain was because I was not comfortable with his “friendship”. He did have issues with me such as me not being available to do things with him on the weekends because I worked. At the time he didn’t discuss it with me he discussed it with her. He addressed that need with his friend and started doing those things with her, which I’m sure is what paved the way for the A. (BTW I stopped working weekends over a year ago. OWH worked weekends as a 2nd job so she wouldn’t have to work).

We’ve walked on eggshells not wanting to disappoint the other person or get the other person angry. We’ve been together for 19 years and have had very few fights. I think we need to stand up to one another. I’m no frail flower and he is no wimp. We have issues to get to but I’m not sure how to get there.

I’ve given him the EN questionnaire but he hasn’t even looked at it. Forcing him can’t be a good thing. I look for opportunity to discuss ANYTHING just for sake of conversation to try to open dialog so he used to just speaking to me without the fear of it turning into “A TALK”. I really think we need professional guidance for the tools to use, but he resists. He says “Just what I need, some quack to tell me how to live my life.” Or “ I’m not doing that just cause its in a book or something you found on line.”

I’ve tried to get him to go out alone with me to do something fun. He says he doesn’t have the time or we don’t have the money. The most positive response I get from him is when we do something with the kids or when we are working on a project around the house. It doesn’t feel like I should push it. Any suggestions?