Please go and read all of wwjd old posts and wwjd now posts and my old "scarlet and regretful" posts. YOu just recommended divorce to my H and I believe it is unfair.
I think that it is so important before you make such a determination and judgement that you know in your mind that you have all the facts. This is esp true for old timer/multiple posters here. I think that you should always be trying to get to the truth and realize that every poster is posting from their own biased opinion. Every one I know would say that I have tried in my marriage and that I am not a bad person. This is a marriage builders site and divorce is the last option. Please read all of our posts and then comment <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Fair enough, why don't you tell us why he should NOT be considering letting go. I would love to hear your side of this. However, please note that what you posted on your H's thread explains nothing and simply blames him for your 4-5 year long A.

You said
You say you are a Christian and you believe in marriage, but clearly your actions have not squared up with this statement. So what are YOU doing to save this marriage? When are you truely going to end the A?

Please tell me your said. I would much prefer that your marriage be saved, but please note this is not a marriage at ALL COSTS sight. At some point the BS has the right and perhaps the obligation to say
"enough is enough". It is for your H to decide this, but you must acknowledge he has been dealing with YOUR A for a long time. So what are you doing to give him hope?

What are you doing to learn from the past and use it for your future and the future of your marriage? What are you doing to encourage your H to work on this marriage?

Please, tell us your side of this.

God Bless,

JL

Would mind writting the links to your posts as 'scarlet and regretful'? [the new search function leaves a lot to be desired].

TMCM

P.S. Just Learning is a guy.

Sorry JL for calling you a girl! HaHa! I wish that I could post links, but I am horrible at that stuff. I had to change my username just to be able to log in.
I know that I blame my H for the A alot and he does have a lot of the blame for the beginnings of it. But I have said repeatedly that it was my poor choice and my ignorance to have an affair.
We lived in my Hs hometown in 2000 and he worked with his family. He was completely enmeshed with his father and GF, who ran the family business. My H used to be terribly verbally abusive. He would call me a "disaster" all of the time. Six months after having our 3rd child, in 2001, I started working out with a personal trainer, the OM. Soon after, I told my H that I was attracted to him. For months afterward my H talked about the OM during our SF. I told him to stop but he did not. I WAS AN IDIOT FOR CONTINUING TO WORK OUT WITH OM. Months after I met him, I began the A. At the beginning of the A, my H initiated a night where he watched me sleep with OM. For years afterward, I did not understand how I could have done that. I am NOT that kind of person--I never even thought that I would have an A, and participating in that night made me ashamed and angry at myself and my H. I had protested at first and then ultimately acted out everything my H said to do. It was ugly and I knows that for both me it was lust for the OM who I had just begun an A with. Six weeks after the A really started I told everyone I was in love with OM and wanted a D. My H and his family proceeded to cut off all money, and to make my life hell. Back then, I was so defeated and I knew that my H and I needed help and that I would never forgive myself if I did not try to save my M. In June 2002, We moved to my hometown, my H cut off contact with his dad who hates me, he quit his job and he tried to make things up to me. At first I had NC with OM but I did talk to him after a few weeks a couple of times in the beginning. During that summer of 2002, I really tried to be committed to NC, though. WE did all the right things. We both were in counseling together and individually. Then one night on our date night in Sept he told me he had a ONS 3 years prior with a stripper. He told me very offhandedly, and said he was sorry and that was probably why he had encouraged me to be with OM at first. Well, that pretty much ruined things for me in terms of loyalty to him and we still have not dealt with his A. The fact that he hid it for so long still scares me, and I don't know if that is the only time. I then continued my A for the next 2 years on and off.
Feb this year was DDAy and I established NC after my H moved out. We have talked to Steve Harley probably 6 times. We have been building a house which means so much to me. I have such a strong need for security, and I have lost the ability to trust anyone, esp men. I am beginning counseling to deal with that. I have had NC for weeks now and I messed up two times in the last two months. I want to deal with our problems. I will tell you that esp over the last 2 years, it was my fault that I had the A. I have not been strong enough. This has been misery for me. I have hurt so many people, but mostly myself b/c living a lie really is so destructive to a person. I can list you all of my faults. I am spoiled, too defensive, bossy, not trusting and angry. I have used the wrong coping mechanisms--spending money, pampering myself, and having the A. I have hated myself and stopped trusting myself. Every man in my life has let me down. Even both of my therapists who were men have commented on how attractive I am, and disgusted me. Our couples therapist is a sex therapist and the kind who did not talk much. He has heard all kinds of sex stuff and never helped me to deal with my anger about my Hs ONS, his secrecy about it and the night with the OM. Prior to Feb, my H did not have a chance. I was in a fog, in love with OM, did not want to even think of trusting H again, and my H has been very self righteous and expects me to just be over it all. Of course, my A and his suspicions have overshadowed everything. During times of NC, I would beg him and the therapist to deal with the underlying issues, but my H was very focused on getting me to have sex with him again. After moving here we did not have SF for a year and a half. I finally did and I really felt that once he got SF, he stopped "wining and dining" me. For two years I have gone through the cycle of NC and trying to work on marriage for several weeks or months, getting depressed b/c of not working on issues and missing OM and reestabilishing contact with OM. In FEb, after several months, I wanted the secrecy to stop. I don't want it anymore. I am in therapy, and we are separated. I am a full time single mom of 3. However, things with H and I are worse than ever. My H gets paid 250-300k through his family business in addition to six figures from his own job. WE have been building a house and we have that mortgage in addition to 2 apt leases. For the last few months I have bought furniture and a huge new engagement ring that my H approved. Especially over the last few months I began coping by spending money. We now have major financial stress and my H went behind my back and disclosed all of our financial issues to his family. Again, his dad hates me and his GF definitely has mental issues of his own. WE moved away from them to sever ties, but my H does get dividend checks from the company that are required by law. Every 3 months we get from between 30k and 65k. WE are 33 years old, both spoiled and irresponsible with money and spend too much. Neither of us has lived by a budget. WE have not worked as a team to establish a financial plan. Several months ago, I went to an accountant on my own to try and get a handle on it all. It is so much money that it is mind boggling to me and I have spent it frivolously. So has my H. I have agreed to see a financial counselor and I have a spreadsheet of our credit card debt. However, my H is playing the victim in so many ways and he is telling his family that I have a mental problem and should go to a 12 step debt group. They disagree with the cost of our house and they say that we should not "depend" on income from the family business. How could we not, when we have been paid at least 250k from it over the last 4 years? It is pretty hard not to depend on it, b/c it is a total lifestyle changer!!! My H still brings up 10 years ago when we first got married and had a baby 11 months later while he was in business school and being supported by his GF. I had opened credit cards on my own when we had little money and at the end of business school my H went to his GF blamed all debt on me and got him to pay it off. I have not been secret about any money spending since then. My H has the position that he has enabled me. My belief is that we both have spent too much money. Now his family wants us to sell the house and get divorced. They told him to open his own checking account and he did. They are giving him money on the side. They all make me feel so small and stupid. Over the last two months, I have spent little money. My H has gone to get massages, bought clothes, gone to the tanning bed, etc. He has gone to a restaurant/bar that is known for being a divorced persons hangout at least 8 times with people and BY HIMSELF. On Friday night he has gone by himself two times and last Friday he charged $60 on our debit card for just himself?!?! The waitresses at this place wear short tight skirts and tank tops with no bra. He says he goes b/c he is lonely. He has also gone to a bar by himself at least once that I know about. He says he wants to work on the marriage, but he is not saying these things are wrong. He is blaming me for everything. He constantly pressures me to change. Believe me, I know that I have faults. I want to change. But does he think he should? I don't know. I have now decided to concentrate on myself. I get so down on myself when I think of his family and how they have never accepted me. They think that I married him for money and I have lived in an apartment with him for 9 out of the 12 years that I have been with him. I want to work on this marriage. I want to work on myself. I want to trust and I want to stop being angry. I WANT to be attracted to my H again. It has been so many years since I have been and that is torture. I work my butt off as a stay at home mom and he and his family seem to think that I have a cushy spoiled life b/c of that. My H knows that the men in his family have no respect for women. The OM is not someone that I would settle down with if my H and I do get divorced. I have stopped the A and I am taking care of our kids. My H refuses to listen to me about fighting in front of the kids. He and I have everything that anyone could want materially and most other ways and we are not happy. It is ridiculous. If I read all of this, I would hate the person who wrote it. God forbid, something really bad happens to us that is not our own doing. I better stop now before you fall asleep reading this!

I'm sorry about your situation, aao...

I'm not talking about everything you perceive as "bad" around you.

I feel sorry for you because you have ceded control fo your life to everyone else around.

It obvious...since your problems are the result of eveyone else's bad behavior, then they must be in control of your life, aren't they?

So, do healthy adults live their lives under the rule of someone else?

aao...you are not healthy. Your post is riddled with immaturity. You are not taking responsibility for how you've behaved, despite what you say.

Grown ups accept the consequences of their own behavior. They make decision based on their own integrity, not based on what everyone around them is doing.

Why do think your H's bad behavior justifies yours? In fact, why do think your H's behavior should have anything to do with yours?

YOU make choices based on your own integrity. YOU are responsible for them. Do you think you've made good choices? Do you own that? Don't say that you do until you're ready to own without qualification (e.g. I was bad BUT...)

You are not ready to recover your marriage. People here see that. That's why your H is being advised as he was.

BTW, I am an ex WS. I've been there, done that, and know BS when I see it. You aren't fooling anyone but yourself, aao.

There is a quote I've seen here... "Fooling others is serious business but fooling yourself can be fatal"

Think about that.

Low

ok. if even everyone here thinks we should divorce, then i will give up. i was just trying to give my side of the story b/c my h has written my faults. i am not ready to recover? b/c i want both sides to be told to get some good supportive advice for the marriage? this place just seems to be very judgemental. for weeks i have been home, in therapy, taking care of my children, being here for them each and every time they need me. if i am not ready now then i never will be. thanks for your time.

You have to realize that your trustworthiness is not/should not be dependent on your H's. If your H chooses to be un-trustworthy, that does not give you the right to reciprocate like you have so far.

You also have to realize that there are consequences to one's actions. When your H opened up to you and shared his dark secret of his ONS, you used that as an excuse to restart your A with the OM knowing full well that it could ultimately destroy your marriage.

So, as JL asked you, what is your plan of action to save/rebuild your marriage? [BTW that same question would be posed to your H if he had been the one posting]. If you truly are serious in giving it your all to save/rebuild your marriage, then you must implement the MB principles outlined in Dr Willard Harley Jr's books 'Surviving An Affair', 'Love Busters', 'His Needs, Her Needs', etc. No ifs, ands or buts.

There's plenty of blame to be cast around between the two of you, but that will not save your marriage. It only takes one person to change the marriage and following the MB principles will certainly start this change that just might save/rebuild it.

TMCM

Quote:
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For months afterward my H talked about the OM during our SF. I told him to stop but he did not. I WAS AN IDIOT FOR CONTINUING TO WORK OUT WITH OM. Months after I met him, I began the A. At the beginning of the A, my H initiated a night where he watched me sleep with OM. For years afterward, I did not understand how I could have done that. I am NOT that kind of person--I never even thought that I would have an A, and participating in that night made me ashamed and angry at myself and my H. I had protested at first and then ultimately acted out everything my H said to do. It was ugly and I knows that for both me it was lust for the OM who I had just begun an A with.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



againstallodds,

I have not really followed your H's thread, only this one. This really struck a chord in me.

I wonder how many people understand how incredibly damaging this would be for a woman.

My DD's dad used to have these kind of fantasies, and looking back this was the beginning of the end for us. He never asked me to actually act out this fantasy, but he used to talk about it when we were being sexual and I still remember 10 years later how terribly it used to hurt me. In fact I think it crushed my love for him, I started avoiding sex all together with him and distancing myself from him emotionally - then he started messing around.

A man is supposed to protect his wife, to honor and cherish her and this type of fantasy is so very hurtful for a woman I think.

I do agree that damage has been done by both, but alot of dynamics are at work here, and an incredible amount of pain and betrayal of trust before the affair even started. The betrayal of trust by your H for you, as this fantasy of his came to be spoken and acted on.

Hang in there and work with these MR's who are talking with you againstallodds, there is more than your marriage at stake here and you need to heal as well as your H. What they are trying to get you to see is that by taking responsibility for your actions you are empowered to make good decisions and not participate in activities which are damaging to you, or to your family. It's really all about self-worth, but also about knowing what boundaries are having good ones in place.

---------------------
"The truth will never damage a cause which is just"

~Mahatma Ghandi

AAO...

You confuse my judging your actions with judging you. Only you know what kind of person you are inside. All I can do is read what you write.

We'd love to offer your some help. Many of us have been where you are.

How's your therapy going?

aao...how would you describe yourself apart from your circumstances? Do you understand who you would be if you woke up tomorrow and suddenly didn't have your kids and family?

The point of my question is that I doubt you have any idea who you really are apart from them. As a results, all of your actions are being driven by the feelings they instill in you.

The effect of your affair on your H was significant, as, I'm sure, the effect of his infidelity was on you.

But have you considered the damage you've done to yourself? Your IC should help you work towards repairing that. I think it must be a goal for any WS to regain a sense of personal integrity. You have to rebuild a moral core that will allow you to understand that what your H does is more about where he is emotionally than you.

You have to be willing to accept that you've done some things that have challenged his own ideas of who he thought he was. You should accept that he COULD redefine himself in terms that don't include you. That's his choice.

Stop making this all about you. It's not. I often find myself saying this to other BS's, but it's true in your case.

Look at it like this...you cannot cut down an oak tree and expect it to recover overnight. You might have to accept that it won't if you've damaged it badly enough. But you can do everything in your power to nurture it back to health. If it still dies, you'll know you did all you could.

You're first step is to get out of the blame mode. You cannot control how anyone behaves toward you. You can only control how you behave toward them. Others owe you nothing. Can you honestly say that you are doing everything you could be doing to build love in your H? (What he's doing doesn't matter). Do you respect yourself for how your handling this? I would suspect that you don't.

Lastly, allow yourself and everyone else time. Even if everyone were perfect from this moment on, it takes time to rebuild trust.

Low

AAO,

I guess I will ask again what has been asked by others as well as myself. What is your plan for recovery? You say you don't want a divorce, you don't believe in a divorce. Fine, what are the guiding principles of your life? How do you make decisions with respect to how to treat people? What is YOUR vision of a good marriage? How are you working to make that vision a reality?

Have you identified thoughts, behaviors, expectations, resentments, that have driven you to this point, and thus jeapordized your marriage? If so what are you doing to address them?

Notice I am NOT asking about your H. I am not asking that your realize that you just might have hurt him with 4 years of affairs. I am not asking you to justify what you DID.

I am asking you what are YOU DOING right now to save the marriage you seem to think we are advising your H to leave?

You have to address your own issues. Your H cannot change you, and YOU cannot change HIM. Your behavior, your decisions, and the results of those decisions are all on YOU. If you have done something against your beliefs, your internal boundaries, YOU cannot blame anyone else. Indeed as Low Orbit, says and as wellas the Coffeeman, blame gets you no where.

So what are your plans for future action? What actions are you taking to save your marriage? Where do you want your marriage to be? I mean sit down and write out what in your mind would be the PERFECT marriage with your H. And then examine it and see how many of those things are really attainable. I will bet most of them are IF you do your work, and your H decides to remain in the marriage and work on it. BUT YOU, are the key to your happiness, use it by using your head to examine your heart. Don't focus on the "feelings" that go and come.

God Bless,

JL

I thought that I had posted a couple of hours ago, but it did not go through.
One thing that I have learned from having an A is that the secret and the OM enable things to be "all about you". I do not want this. I do not want secrets anymore regardless of what happens in my M. I have hurt myself so much in terms of my character and knowing who I am. I intend to focus on this in therapy--the reasons why I had the A and what I have done to myself as a person. I want to have better coping mechanisms for feelings of depression, loneliness and worthlessness. I want to learn how to be more trusting. I want to stop lying. I want to work on my anger towards Sean, and I think that I should not talk to Sean unless I can be kind.
I also plan on getting my RN license active again. This requires 2 weeks of school, which I have applied for. I want to get a part time job to help pay off the debt and to pay for the house.
I plan on seeing a financial planner in order to begin a plan to pay off debt, keep our house, and establish a savings plan, as well as life insurance.
Regarding NC, I plan on presenting my H with phone and cell phone bills. I already changed my cell # and disconnected any media services on it.
I plan on continuing to be a great mom and to spend as much time as possible with my 3 kids.
I know this is not just about me. It is about our family and our children.
My vision of a good marriage is two people who enjoy being together, even after the kids are gone. Each cares for one another and cares about eachothers emotional needs-what they are and meeting them. They trust eachother and they try not to hurt one another.
I want to be the person that God intends me to be. I want good friends. I want to give to others. I know that I do have a generous spirit, and i love to give money away. I want to love and to be loved. I want to respect myself.

I've found the saying to be true ~ "you are only as sick as your secrets"

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Ok, AAO,

If these are the things you want. Start making detailed plans to achieve them. The financial guide is a good thing. Counseling is good...very good.

Getting your nursing license up and running is good.

Have you written a No Contact letter to OM? If not, you should and your H should see it, review it and then mail it for you. It will help both of you if you do this.

Then we come to coping skills. Clearly a counselor will be very useful. However, there is the issue of the decisions you made and what internal boundaries you had, have, and want to have. Here I would hope you would turn to your religion for guidance in establishing what your boundaries should be and how to enforce them.

How does ANY of this help your marriage? It does not help your marriage one bit. What will help your marriage is you addressing how you see your H. How you interact with your H. And finally, how willing you are to "FORGIVE" your H.

You clearly chose another man ahead of your H and you have done this for years. Why? That needs to be known. But, clearly from what you have said here, you have things for which you will have to consider forgiving your H before you can truely let him into your heart. In these matters you have decisions to make, and then a trail of consistent actions and honesty to build. What are your plans in these matters?

Do you see where I am going? If you can do only a few of these things, there is not much hope for your marriage, if you can do none of them there is no hope. If you do many of them then there is hope, because although your H was/is talking divorce, he is asking about remarrying you. Doesn't that suggest to you, that there is love there for you IF you will sit down, look inside, make plans and start to act on those plans?

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

AAO...

I don't know if you'll be open to it, but I'd like to suggest that things you listed that you want to work on may sound like good things, but they will not solve your problem.

There are many people who are great nurses, superb parents, and fiscally solvent who are absolutely miserable because they thought curing all of these things would solve their problem.

Your fundamental problem is one of integrity. No matter what you do, you cannot heal until you can accept who you.

Low

I'm going to quote something here that Ktulu posted on a "self-esteem" thread he has going over on the EN board. It may be too much info for one day, but you can always come back and read it later. It is a practice for develping self-worth and taking responsibility for your life and the choices you make. You can either live at the "mercy" of life and those around you, or you can make a life of worth and happiness. It's a choice and what's you understand this, your life will change in miraculous ways.

Posted by Ktulu -

hi, sorry didn't catch this till now, haven't located the exact list as originally given, however here is something very similiar by Bill Ferguson, that really does impact on esteem.

Quote:
_____________________________________________
Live At Cause
When you live at cause, you are in charge of your life. When you are at effect, life is in charge of you.

At any moment, you are totally, 100% at the effect of the world around you. Whatever happens around you, you will react in some way.

At the same time, the world around you is totally 100% at the effect of you. Whatever you do, the world around you will react to you. This makes you cause.

You are totally at the effect of everything around you. You are also totally cause of everything around you. You are both cause and effect at the same time. You react to the world around you and the world reacts to you.

Although you are both cause and effect, you only experience yourself as being one or the other. You either experience yourself as being the cause of your life or you experience yourself as being at the effect.

How you experience yourself at any moment determines both the quality of your life and your ability to deal with life.

When you experience yourself as being at the effect, your ability to deal with life becomes greatly reduced. You become upset and close down inside. Your situation seems bigger than you. You feel powerless.

As you remain at effect, you close down even more. You get depressed. You feel defeated and become full of sadness. You lose your confidence and your energy. You withdraw from life and become ineffective. Life gets worse and you become even more at the effect.

When you are at the effect, your thoughts are negative. You don't notice that being at the effect is just a choice, a state of mind.

Fortunately, at any moment, you have the ability to turn your life around. You can shift from being at the effect to being at cause. You do this by generating a commitment and determination to handle your situation.

You have made this shift before.

Find a time when you were at the effect of something and for some reason, you decided that you had had enough. You reached your limit and you decided that you were going to take action. You then grabbed your situation by the horns and took action. You started turning your problem around.

Notice how you felt the moment you became determined to handle your situation and you started taking action.

Instantly you became alive again. You restored your confidence, your energy and your effectiveness. You made the shift from being at the effect to being at cause. You changed your life and you did it with just a change in thought.

You changed your state of mind by generating a determination to handle your situation. You then took charge of your life and returned to cause.

To the extent you live your life at cause, your life will work. The key to living at cause is simple. Don't stay at effect. As soon as you notice that you are at the effect of something, stop. Stop being at the effect and move to cause. Handle your situation as fast as you can.

Sometimes you need to generate a lot of energy to handle a situation. This is especially true if you are deep at the effect, but this is what you need to do if you want your life to work.

Whenever you are at the effect, take these steps to return to cause:

( 1.) Notice that you are at the effect.

( 2.) Remember that you have the ability to shift from effect to cause.

( 3.) List the specific circumstances that you are at the effect of.

( 4.) Generate a commitment and a determination to do what ever it takes to handle each of these circumstances.

( 5.) Take action to handle each of the items that you are at the effect of.

( 6.) Notice the freedom and peace you gain by taking action.


The moment you take charge of your situation, you restore the experience of love. Your confidence and effectiveness return. Solutions appear and opportunities present themselves. Life begins to work for you instead of against you.

The more you shift from effect to cause, the more you develop your ability to make this shift. You discover that living at effect is only a choice, a choice that produces needless suffering.

Practice making this shift as often as possible. The more you make this shift, the more you master living at cause.
____________________________________________________________


Best Wishes

Ktulu, on the road to somewhere better......

Hi AAO,

i have just read your posts from today and your story touched me. I understand all too well what you mean when you say the A has hurt your so much in terms of your character and knowing who you are. i have done the same type of damage to myself as well.

the posts you are getting, although perhaps hard to read at times, really are wonderful. please try hard to always read them with the knowledge that the poster is truely trying to help you, not judge you and certainly not hurt you. the bests posts are the ones that challange you to improve yourself.

at first it sounded like maybe you were not going to continue reading/posting. i was happy to see you posted again after JL's post.

i have been here since dec 2003 and i can tell you 100% for sure, i would not be who i am today if i had not stuck around. our marriage still have hard days ahead of it and i'm not 100% sure what the end result will be.

but i have re-gained some of my self-respect and integrity back. i am proud of myself now, for looking at myself hard and for the choices I am making today. i have bad days, when i beat myself up, when i would rather play victim and go crawl in a hole, when i want to let hopelessness take over. posting here always helps me to pick myself up and keep walking my journey, regardless of the influences around me. i am learning to be true to myself, be the person God wants me to be, regardless of what does or does not happen for me. it's not easy and sometimes it does not feel very fail, at all! but the bottomline always comes back to me wanting to choose to be the type of person I want to be. in the end, that is all you can control.

so i wanted to be a bit of a cheerleader for you today, in between the harder posts <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> i hope this helps. i know how hard it is, but with God all things are possible!!

Hi AAO,

I'm jumping in to suggest that you look up Finally Learning-T2M's old threads starting with the ones when she first started posting here. Some of the best people are "formers" and imo FL-T2M is definitely one of them! You can be too, if you choose to be <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> .

There is a lot that you can learn from those who went (successfully) before you that can make it a little easier for you.

Take care

wow, LB, i came back here to see how AAO was doing and my mouth dropped open when i read your reply. thanks for your comments, they definitely made me smile inside.

some days i still definitely struggle but when i think back to how i was a year or so ago... words cannot describe the gratitude i feel towards MB. (and i do give myself some credit too.)

I went to lunch with a friend today, had not seen her in a long time. she was someone i confided in about what i was doing and she was hard on me, not mean, but firmly stated her opinion of my actions. and i really appreciated that. i would confide in her because i knew she would push me to do the right things. unfortunately i didn't see her often enough!! we used to work in the same area, but not for many years. we are not even in the same building anymore. anyway, i had told her about d-day one after that occured. i had seen her since d-day 2 but did not talk about it. today i told her about that, which included having to fill her in on some details that she did not know about. she was very happy for me and very proud of all i have done.

anyway, don;t mean to hi-jack this thread. just wanted to say thanks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

and AAO, if i can do it, so can you!!!

bumping up for AAO, how are you doing??

MB love to you! i feel your pain AAO, it CAN get better!!!

AAO,

I hope that you continue to read and re-read the posts from the other members here for they [and I] do wish you the best for you and your H.

God Bless.

TMCM.