OK I'm a little confused. No website can save it, but we can try after the divorce???? That means she needs to have some control?

She's trying not to hate me?? I appreciate that anyway.

She's telling our son things will be the same?? I'll be sleeping in the back room and we may not be spending holidays together??

I need a FWW to read between the lines on this one!!!

Hi, SS.

I have posted to you a couple of times. My recommendations have been tough. I understand why you haven't wanted to implement them.

You need to get your son in a safe place. She is feeding him unknown information. Your wife is wayward and your son deserves to be with someone that has his best interest at heart, and with someone that will tell him the truth. He needs a hero, and you are the only candidate in your marriage.

I also get the impression that she is reading your posts here.

All the best,
Gimble

Translation: I want you to be civil and friendly while I destroy our family. Please be my "friend" while I tear you apart. Please don't confront me with the consequences of the devastation I am leaving in my wake. Let's all be pleasant about this; let's be "friends." Help me normalize my cruel, abnormal behavior so I won't feel so guilty inside. Please help me quell my shrieking conscience so I can continue on my destructive, selfish, mean little path. Make that sound go away....

Thanks ML. Ouch. That's why I needed the interpretation, I can't see that point of view. I know she feels guilty for her behavior, but when she tries to force it on me, it throws me off guard. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Gimble. I recognize your every post, and am always gratefule for your tough love. I agreee with you whole heartedly. He will be with me more over the next 4 months than with her, so I'm exposing him a little bit, I realize. I realize that if she can't resolve her behavior, I may have to keep him.

Why do you think she's reading my postings. It's possible she is, but I have been honest. I want us to have a relationship that does not jeopardize our sons, and I want us to be in love with each other. If not, we need to be divorced.

Stay on me Gimble! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I'm still strong. Sorry if I'm letting you down with my approach. If DS8 were not safe, he would be OUTTA there. No Questions.

Anyone else???

Now Gimble. Shouldn't removing DS8 from the WW be part of Plan B? From all appearances and discussions I've had with DS. He sounds like she's telling him what she's said. I will have the next three weeks with him though and will pay close attention. I'm sure it's affecting him more than I know.

Sleepless,

I am not a FWW, I am a BW, but when I read this I thought of conversations with my STBXH. There were days that letter sounded just like him.

It made me think that no matter what you say, your next communication with her is going to include a "I tried to tell you how I felt and you're so mean to still try" or "You never listen to what I'm saying". Mark my words, that letter is setting you up to further blame YOU. After all, she's trying to keep things calm and nice :rolleyes:

If I were you I wouldn't reply at all. If she brings it up say, "I did receive it." If she asks what you thought, "Yes. I received it. I'm really trying to give it the thought it deserves." Then, I'd file it under "justification of unjustifiable deeds" or "Fog at its best" or "WHATEVER". Then forget it.


FIM translates as: "I know what I'm about to say is a load of crap but here goes anyway"


FIM translates as: I have no responsibility for how I feel or react. It's all on you. Do what I want and let me do what I want or YOU are soley responsible for my unhappiness.


Wow. Funny thing here, it turns out your solely responsible for everything YOU feel too. I have nothing to do with it.



FIM STATEMENT: This just irritates the hell out of me. "vows"? "VOWS"? In quotes....little bunny ears around "VOWS"? I found an email from my WH's OW that referred to me as his "wife"...quotations and all. "VOWS"? OH...KAY...


FIM translates: blah blah blah. blah blah. blah. It always amazes me how a WS can't come up with anything specific. "a long time". Sleepless.... did this 'long time' of unhappiness coincide with a decision to have an affair? Isn't it amazing how having an affair makes things so clear? Kinda like Eve and the apple. Gotta love those "A-HA" moments. You can also read in, "Please feel sorry for me. I crave the sympathy I think you should have for me. UNDERSTAND my angst.... if you do that, I don't have to feel like the family destroying person I have allowed myself to become."


FIM translates as: I'm scared of that marriage builders site . OMG, a plan?!?!?!?! No way! Let's wing it! Let me out of the "vows" :rollseyes:, go through the paperwork and let time take its course. 'Cause, ya know, ignoring the problems up till now has been so good for us :rolls eyes:


FIM translates as: "Again, I don't want a plan that might actually help us. Ignoring the problems is so much easier. As I said earlier, it's what I've done for the last 10 years."



FIM says: this is a set up for "Do what I want or I'll make you feel guilty for it later".


FIM translates as: Let's pretend I didn't kill this family. Let's act like everything is okay. This is going to make me feel so much better because I can pretend that things are okay and I don't have to see the tears and sleepless nights and inability to eat or concentrate that I have wrought on you. Let's just watch movies and pretend things are okay. Again, this acting like things are okay has become a pattern I'm comfortable with over the last 10 years.


FIM says: please realize that discuss rationally means "give me what I want or you're not rational"


FIM says: this is the biggest load of crap yet. Sorry I can't put it nicer. She needs her name and life back? Uh huh. A piece of paper does not a family make? Yeah. Apparently neither do "vows".

She is telling your child that marriage is just a word. It's not. It's a 'vow'. It's a promise. She is putting you BOTH as responsible parties to the ending of that promise and vow. She's trying to justify and unjustifiable and heinous act to a child. She's trying to guilt you into going along with it and playing nice to make it easier for HER.

Do you want a divorce without a fight?

Do you want to try and recover the "vows" and promise you made to each other?

Are you willing to do the work it takes?

Everything I've seen in your posts says you are willing to do whatever it takes to at least try. Don't let her guilt you into making nice for HER sake.

This divorce is not for you, the kids, the greater good. IT IS FOR HER.

You can't stop her from taking that road. But, you don't have to make it easy either by giving into this barely veiled attempt to gain sympathy and a helping hand towards divorce.

I believe, and I could be wrong, that she is attempting to manipulate an easy visit. Easy, meaning softening you up to "understand" her and "feel for" her. She doesn't want you trying to keep trying.

I'd redouble your efforts if I were you. I'd go full steam ahead...babble like there is no tomorrow...Plan A your behind off....and if YOU are not ready to take the step for divorce, don't join the petition. You can join at any time later. If you're not ready, don't do it because she needs her "space" or her "name back". She can find herself just as easily while married and she is a MARRIED WOMAN! Name back? My goodness, I'm going to stop now before I get going again!@!!

You have my best wishes Sleepless. I'm not trying to be cruel here or to belittle anything. Well, maybe the letter...but really.... my STBXH would say stuff like this and I wanted so much to see the good side and read into everything and thought that maybe if I gave him the space he needed it would be better.

Know what, he moved in with OW. Good plan, FIM.

Your wife is a married woman with a responsibility to try and save her marriage. Don't let her out of that responsibility too easily.

You are in my prayers and thoughts,

FIM

Sleepless, you are not disappointing me with your approach. I am unimportant, your son and your marriage are important.

She is feeding your son information designed to help her spend time with the other man.

YOUR WIFE IS INTERESTED ONLY IN HERSELF and how SHE feels. As such, she is not 100% on the ball as a mother.

She is feeding her 'feel good' and will do just about anything to keep the drug of choice flowing. Lie, cheat, steal, and leave her son alone with strangers or by himself or put him into situations that her normal 'sane self' would never do.

Even it it means facilitating her affair, I think that you need to keep your son with you for the foreseeable future.

Do you believe that she will not expose him to her 20 year old lover and former babysitter?

What is your son to think when they kiss or wander off into the bedroom together?

What if they are very responsible and only hold hands, how does your son reconcile that with knowing you are unhappy and want your wife back?

Do you trust her not to do these things?

SS, I don't want to hurt your feelings by throwing this at you. I know you are in a tough place, a very hurtful, hard place to stand. The pain is very real. Regardless, it is your portion to deal with these things at this time in your life. No one said it was fair. It just is, and it sucks.

I don't want to plant mental images in your mind. I do want to make sure that you fully comprehend the truth and the seriousness of the situation. Your wife intends to fill her need. It is true that you are working to put an end to that, in the interim, you simply must protect your son.

Protecting your son is not Plan B or Plan A, it is Plan hero. It's what betrayed spouses do for their children to the best of their ability. Your son is not a pawn in this game.

God bless,
Gimble

[color:"blue"] I know she's lying to me. I have evidence. [/color]



[color:"blue"] No I don't trust her on these things. The truth is the OM is out of sight in another country. I also wrote into D paperwork that if he sees, hears about, sees pictures, sees items from OM, he's coming home. She didn't like that very much. She promised it would be gone before DS came home. [/color]

I realize it looks like I'm giving WW her way and letting her feed her need. I can't STOP her from feeding her need by E-Mail and phone. But I can make it perfectly clear she needs to choose between OM and her son. She really doesn't like the fact that I'm claiming our oldest son as mine. That really bothers her. I have NOT let her stay in a comfort zone. She says she's afraid that if DS sees OM walking down the street, she'll be in trouble. I responded they are in two separate countries. There's no way that could happen.

I re-emphasized that our family could have NO relationship while she was in contact with OM. So I hope I'm not giving her her way. She's pretty PO'd with me. The letter was much nicer than the phone calls.

Having said all of that. I can much better interpret her phone calls and E-Mail right now.

The tactic I have right now has been to stall the divorce paperwork. I have some time before the courts rule to bring in a lawyer if I think she's not capable to be a mother to our DS8.

SIS,
Since you asked for a FWW opinion, I read through the thread. My word it is hard to read and remember what it's like to be selfish and foggy! Many of the phrases she uses are all too familiar I am ashamed to say.

I was going to offer my translation, but I have to tell you, Faithinme's interpretation was dead-on IMO. Yep.

Everything gets skewed to be either your fault, her need to have her independence back, time of the month, yada yada yada. ANYTHING to make it seem better than what is really going on - that she is dissolving your family to chase a boy. And...she wants you to make it easier on her sense of guilt by being nice. Sorry, but it was kind of sickening to read.

Give her note it's true due and hit the delete button. It doesn't mean what she wants you to think it means, and it isn't from the W you used to know and love.

Hang in there. My very best to you and your DS. Try and keep him out of the crossfire as much as possible.
GS

The difficult part is how to proceed. She'll be here tomorrow with DS. He's staying with me for three weeks.

Do I continue to shine the light on the fact that I think we can restore our relationship?

I signed a note to her that I still cared for and loved her before I received this message, and she got really upset over the phone that I could say that. I take that as an indication that she feels horrible that I could still love someone as unworthy as her.

Regarding her addiction to the young man. I would like to call his father and just happen to find out the OM is going to visit her. Then I can confront her. I feel she's yearning for that weekend. It doesn't sicken me any more, just makes me sad that she can't let go of an obviously inappropriate relationship.

It occurred to me that she told our son that the divorce is just a piece of paper. I don't want either of my sons to EVER think that. Right now I want to keep the peace and try to Plan A for the next month or two to see if the Affair doesn't die a natural death. I'm praying that it will and won't have to take more drastic measures. I am, however, prepared to make this difficult for her. Not out of vengeance, but to demonstrate to our boys this behavior is unacceptable and harmful.

I'm going to try and get a hold of Steve Harley one more time to finalize my plan forward

Thanks ladies. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

SIS

Wow, it's amazing she can even speak with most of her brains up on the Mothership.

I'm not a FWW, but I conclude the translation boils down to, "ME, ME, ME!!!!"

This is priceless:
Wow. Hard to top that one.

My response to this: "Then just exactly how long IS your word good for? 10 minutes?"

No, don't say that.

I believe the fogginess, confusion, and overall whackedout-ness of the WS is proportional to the illogic in his/her words. The more illogic, the better job the BS has done/is doing.

Good work.

WAT

OMG you're funny. I'm am dying here!!

Thank GOD I'm doing something right. I do believe her nerves are pretty ragged. I want her so confused and torn, that she doesn't know which way is up.

I would appreciate your regular humor. I can fully relate.

The alien arrives tomorrow. I'm sending a limo to pick the two up since I'm laid up. I figure DS8 will get a big kick out of that! WW can just go along for the ride. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] This is really astonishing.

I wonder what she used to tell 8 year old son about you previously?

I wonder that she thinks you are not still married ????

She is clearly delusional. [/color]

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

She left her wedding ring on my dresser when she left for Europe in February. As far as she's concerned, we're divorced now, it's just a matter of paperwork.

Yes, it's astonishing.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

HA! She's ALREADY THERE!!

You don't have to do a thing to get her there!

I recommend you sit back and watch much more than you interact with her. Ought to be quite a show. Be thinking ahead some of how you'll answer your son's questions when he asks about something stoopid she says or does.

They don't call it dopamine for nuthin'.

WAT

My homework for tonight is to review Orchid's Reverse Babble page and Ark's Plan A page and some of the notes from Steve Harley.

I'll try to stay non-emotional as she goes to file divorce paperwork. She's going to be a bundle of nerves I'm sure.

My only goal is to get her back to the loving woman that called me only last October crying to tell me she missed me. The woman that when I would visit asked if I could stay one more day. The one who would snuggle up next to me in bed at night.

I'm trying to pick my way through that minefield to the other side.

SIS

WAT! This...is...GENIUS! May I memorize it and quote it repeatedly?

Sleepless, hang in there and fight the good fight, my betrayed brother. I'm rooting for you!

Thanks Pebbles! As my wife gets closer to our hometown, I realize she's off guard. It sounds like the OM has separated himself from her, but I can't tell.

While preparing divorce paperwork she admitted that we could just separate and live like we have. That's what I've been telling her! She also admitted we could work on the relationship during the waiting period and always cancel things. I'm wary Pebbles!

Yes I'm wary Gimble!

Faith In Me.... How do you like this rain??!!

Pray for me guys. Plan A starts in earnest tomorrow.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
God Bless you all.

SIS

SnS
I was going to offer my translation as well, but Faithinme's interpretation was right and has hit it exactly I think.

I would add though that you should have a very big concern re your son as from 8 they easily recognise the issues and he is SO vulnerable right now.
Dont think this will not affect him it can if not handled with honesty and reassurance. Kids know a lie in situations like this. he needs to be in a safe place.

Some things I said to my FWH that helped clear things up for me, and *I think* helped open his mind a bit...


"Won't it be nice when you don't have me around to blame your unhappiness on?"

Or

"I hope you are learning from the mistakes in our M and are going to do it different next time."

Or the classic...

"You are still bringing yourself to a new R."

It sounds like...many WS do...is blame her A on her unhappiness in the M. Granted, this is a contributing factor, but they don't often take the next step in discovering what part they played in that unhappiness...

This will come later, when their next R fails in the same way this one did...and then they realize how rotten they were to you, and how much they COULD have fixed their M.
The regret sets in. The trick is to wait out that regret, to postpone the D as long as possible hoping they get to that realization. That is what part of Plan B provides...it takes you out of the equation, and when they are faced with the same problems...who do they have to blame. The Plan B gives YOU time, and the WS and A time to think...