Sorry. Started this because we were trashing Idiotville.

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RIF,

Let me put it a little more simply.

My wife has moved on to OM#2. She is acting more like my troubled teenage daughter than my wife. I have taken what steps I can to protect her from herself and protect my family from her habits, but at the end of the day, she is NOT my daughter. She is my wife, and an adult, and I can only go so far regarding what I can allow her to do and not do.

And she continues to pursue what I consider inappropriate behavior as a wife, mother, and frankly a mature young woman.

At this point I am pursuing separation and Plan B. And I have told her I don't want anything to do with her, nor do I really care to talk to her UNLESS she gives the new OM a NC letter and is accountable to me that she is truly in no contact. Which means NOT lying about where she is going when she goes out alone. NOT getting anymore "secret" cell phones to contact him (which I have to pay for).

Step one (in my mind) if she wants this to work, is NO FREAKIN' CONTACT. I don't think that is too much to ask.

Look at the converse. She is essentially asking permission to run around and have fun and "she'll see" if she can love me again. All the while I am supposed to support her, watch the kids while she goes out, and give her spending money to have her fun. All the while, giving NOTHING back. Not financially contributing to the family and NOT meeting one of my emotional needs. Does THAT make sense? (She hasn't actually said those words, but I am sure if I offered it, she would JUMP on that option).

I mean that pretty much violates what Harley says. There were not any conditions on the wedding vows. As far as I see it, I have spotted her a big mistake already with OM#1. We are not talking 10 years later and I haven't changed like I promised so she is going out again. We are talking as soon as she was emotionally able, she found OM#2. And that is in question because OM#2 has had to deal with her pining over OM#1.

Sorry. I don't really care what kind of mental health problem you hang on that. There are just things you DON'T do. And there are just things that carry consequences REGARDLESS of your condition when you commit them. I mean many consider alcoholism a disease. If I drive drunk and kill a kid, is that OK because I have a disease? Not so sure if that is the case. I MIGHT be OK with someone having an unexpected heart attack and losing control of a car. But whatever the onus behind her choice may be, no one is MAKING her continue contact. Just like no one is MAKING me leave her. We are both making choices.

I am just having trouble living with mine. Thus, my mood here tonight is a little gloomy. She is not. Not enough to change her behavior.

NCW

Hey NC - I've gotta run to a meeting in just a bit... I'm not excusing ANYTHING that RAP is doing right now. What she's doing, the choices that she's making are harmful and hurtful to you and the family! I know how much all of this hurts...

Please know that I'm NOT saying that you should do what I've done, just because it worked out for me. Not at all. YOU must decide for yourself what you can take... if you reach the decision that this is the last straw then by all means, divorce her... God does give you that option!

I'll check back later after my meeting... I'm sorry that you're hurting so much right now. I've been there many times myself... way back then, I didn't have anyone else to talk with... so talk away! I'm here for you...

Semper Fi,
RIF

Lor,


Please don't take offense at this. As I don't mean any. I am trying to examine my current decisions. I would ask, why? Why 7 separations? Why keep taking him back? And when you did, you MUST have seen something to give you hope that it could possibly work. What was it? Or was it purely faith - Rom 8:28.

I mean (and I don't mean this personally) but if I said you were stupid for putting up with that, what would your counter be? Or do you ask yourself why sometimes?

I can't see considering myself a man for putting up with that kind of behavior. I can't see that being a good example for my kids. I raise them, and am, a STRONG Christian. And I understand turn the other cheek, and forgiveness. I really do. What about the verses that say confront the transgressor, and if that doesn't work, expose them to the believers (the church).

We typically forget the latter part of "Judge not lest ye be judged" and that is "by the measuring stick ye judge with."

I'm sorry, but if judging infidelity is harsh, I am not concerned by being judged by that particular stick. I am not gonna do it. Not while I am married.


And I have actually witnessed to BOTH OM1 and OM2. Not angrily, but out of concern for their salvation.

I started a whole thread about losing salvation a while ago. Not to dredge all that up, by my conclusion was that it is possible. There are plenty of verses that support my conclusion and none that EXPLICITLY say that it isn't true. I am not saying you can definately lose it, only that I don't see where it says you can't. Given that, if she is bent on going down in flames and I have done what I can to prevent this, isn't it paramount at this point that I protect my OWN salvation as well as my sons?


Frankly, our Christian counsellors gave up on the wife. They still pray for her, and are concerned for her, but their conclusion is that she doesn't WANT help. She would counter by saying that they were not "professional" counselors. And they were not. But I look at their fruits. And to me, their fruits were good enough. I know plenty of "professional" engineers who just don't cut the mustard based on what they produce. And I know plenty of "untrained" people who have pulled off some marvellous engineering feats.

Look. This may not be very "Christian" sounding, but until someone can really point me to something that says I am not doing this in a Godly way, I just don't see it.

I tried the absolute forgiveness route (tried, I am not perfect, but felt like I was pretty understanding and forgiving).

It got me nowhere. So at this point, it is time for Plan B (to protect MYSELF, just like Harley says). So I am separating, then divorcing. We can stop this process anytime SHE wants. But no contact comes first. COMMITMENT to counselling comes second. And there will have to be the understanding that at this point, she has to EARN some trust back. So late Friday nights and things like that are out.

What the heck is so hard to understand? If she was an alcoholic and I said she could live in the house, but there would be NO alcohol allowed, and I didn't give her money to go out to a bar, and she had to go to AA, I don't think anyone would say that was unreasonable. Why is no contact seemingly such a stumbling block?

I mean if she comes around 5 years from now after this is all out of her system, anything is possible. But it does absolutely NOT mean I or my children have to suffer it now or wait it out and stand idly and watch her self-destruct. What kind of message are we trying to send to our kids here?

Christ was the LION of the Tribe of Judah, remember? I think (tell me if I am not) that I am being just and fair. She made a promise to me and God, all I am doing is holding her to it.

NCWalker

RIF,

I do appreciate it. One of my (many) favorite quotes is from Mark Twain


And that is just what we are avoiding here. The little kid in me wants everyone to say "dump the b!tch, you deserve better."

But thank God that people like you will throw stones until the end.

It has really made me re-examine my decision. And look. I am not saying by any means I would not take her back. But the facts are...

1-We are BOTH Christians and KNOW adultery is wrong, but she continues.
2-She was fully aware of how I personally felt about it from discussions on and off the 16 years prior to this and has seen the pain and results of it in her own family.
3-All I am asking for is No Contact. I have had to move to another city because of my job, she doesn't even want to come.
4-She isn't (from what I have seen) willing to acknowledge ANY ONE of the 4 rules to a successful marriage.

I mean, if you showed your troops what an M-16 is capable of, told them about the dangers over and over, and went on a training exercise and issued only blanks, but some Joe Snuffy snuck on a live round and blew someone away, do you say "That's OK, we'll try again because you learned an important lesson?"

At some point, we are supposed to gain a little wisdom with age and avoid some of these pitfalls. For those who don't, there are consequences. Heck, if she didn't want to be married, she could have filed ANY TIME after OM#1 and left me. All I can figure is she was enjoying me providing for her and didn't want that to end. She certainly wasn't working on the marriage. Not in any meaningful way. And I let her know. Sometimes in a reasonable way, sometimes in an angry way (DRs, etc). But I darn sure was working on it.

Most people I personally (not online I mean) know are amazed I stayed for so long, I just find it strange that you are asking why I don't stay longer. And maybe you are looking out for me and making sure that I am sure of my decision. I am.

NCWalker

Hey NC -

My only reason for sticking around here is to offer encouragement and hope for those who have no hope and for those that have no one to encourage them...

When I found out about Mrs. RIF's first A, she'd already had one affair 3 months after we were married and this one was just a bit over a year after our first daughter was born.

I was crushed by this one affair that I found out about. I was on my first assignment in europe and I was constantly in the field... everyone, and I mean everyone from my BN Cdr to the Chaplain told me to dump Mrs. RIF. I had no one to talk with. We didn't have the internet back then in 1988. I was 24 years old... I was scared... I was hurting... and I didn't know what to do.

NC, the only thing that I had was God, my precious daughter, and a desire to stick with my marriage no matter what. Yeah, Mrs. RIF continued to crap all over me... I suspected one more affair during our remaining two years overseas, but I NEVER had a clue about the other ones. I don't know what I would have done if I'd found out about all of the other A's... I just don't know. I am glad that I never had to make that decision.

It wasn't fair. It wasn't right. I felt like I was the only one holding our M together. I felt like I was the only one that was trying. Our M got better, but the deep hurt and anger that I felt was still just beneath the surface.

When Mrs. RIF confessed to the additional A's in December 2000, all of that hurt and pain came flooding back. Plus I had to live with the fact that my entire life and M up to that point had been a complete lie!

Thankfully, I didn't have to deal with continued contact with any of the OM... so in that respect, it was easier to deal with.

NC, I see so many statements that I said right after Mrs. RIF confessed all of her affairs. Yes, I was working harder, Yes, I was a good husband and father, Yes, I was doing things to try and meet Mrs. RIF's needs... and yet, she lied to me for 10 long years.

NC - I'm not going to try and begin to tell you what to do. You are a grown man and can make your own decisions.

I would ask you to at least consider the fact that RAP's affairs are not about what you have or haven't done for her... before you make your final decision regarding divorce. I suspect that deep down, you still have hope that RAP will come to her senses and that's the reason that you haven't filed for divorce yet.

NC, RAP has some void in her life that she's trying to fill. I don't know what that void is. I can assure you that it isn't 100% about you, even though YOU are the one that's being hurt the most by all of this.

I agree 100% with you that RAP needs to go into NC before you can even begin to make a decision. Once that's done, then she needs some serious individual counseling. Once she's gotten to the root of HER issues, then and only then can you guys start MC. Only you can decide if you're willing to wait for RAP to accomplish these first two items (NC, and IC).

Another thing that I notice, and this is by no means meant to be judgemental, because I was very much the same way... Sacrificial love doesn't mean that you approve of RAP's continued contact with the OM, but it also doesn't mean that you keep score by comparing her sins to your actions to save the marriage. Sacrificial love doesn't require RAP to do certain things before you show her Christ's love. You can still show RAP your love while condeming her actions.

NC, I KNOW you've worked hard... I KNOW you've prayed over this... If you come back and say, RIF, I've had it, I'm filing for divorce, I wouldn't blame you one bit! In fact, I would support you if that were your final decision... but I think that you still are holding on to a tiny bit of hope.

NC, if you are still holding on, then I'll be your biggest fan... if you reach the decision that you've had all you can take, I'll still be your biggest fan... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Semper Fi,
RIF

NCW, My commenst are not appropriate here, as RIF has been through dealing with a multiple affair situation and recovered miraculously from the crack of doom. AFAIK Squid only had the one affair BUT I caught the A while it was at its most passionate and evil so maybe I can empathise a little with you.

I have learned that there ar elots of reaosns why peopel have affairs, but the primary reason is usually about THEM not about the BS. We scrabble about trying to find reasons to hate ourselves ; to find something to put RIGHT , but if the A wasn't driven by our behaviour no amount of self-examination can fix the underlying catalyst for an affair.

It is clear that RAP didn't address whatever character flaw, trigger or perversion ( whatever it was) that knocked over the first domino that led to her first affair.

If I may say also it must be a HUGE flaw or issue for her to embark on a second affair having seen teh devastation caused by her first one.

Who could revisit such pain one someone if they actually KNOW the suffering it will cause unless theres a real problem ?

If it was ME, I'd treat RAPs issue as a mental illness. It is NOT rational behaviour to knowingly have a second affair once the first is busted and the BS aware of it.

Even God doesn't insist you stay with your adulterous wife, NCW, so I won't.

But at least think that her infidelity might be a manifestation of something broken within her, that could be repaired with the proper help.

All blessings

NC,
My Mozilla won't initiate and I just lost a very long post to you, which I thought I had on clipboard, but both MB & aol logged me out as well.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

But, the gist of it is, I was responding to whether someone could work through the time that the WS was engaged in infidelity with the result of recovery. Yes.

Am I stupid? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> I do prefer to think of it as being strong-willed, goal-oriented, or even stubborn. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

If I had to do it over, I would do things differently, the parts that took me so long to learn, not lovebusting, not using guilt. But, on the other hand, my H didn't think I loved him...and an 18 month Plan A did persuade him otherwise.

I failed at Plan B, twice.

I did serve divorce papers in the 7th separation, which was the longest at 5 months--and I did not return to Plan A and I quit the counseling.

At that point, my H began counseling and a Plan A on me, since I was dating (seriously bad decision on my part).

We reconciled the last time 2+ years since his PA began. And, it was 5 years ago. Taking one more chance, the 7th chance, was difficult. But one of my friends kept talking to me about 70 x7. Which was a terrible, dreary thing for her to do <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />. But, I could feel it was the right thing to do. And my H had stopped personal contact with the OW.

So, I stopped seeing the OM, God took him out of my life (he married someone else a couple months later) and I didn't go on with the divorce. H & I went to counseling a couple months before we moved back in together and continued seeing the C for another year, progressing to a couples Bible study led by him.

I still count our recovery as a miracle of God.

NCW - just replied to you in Idiotville. You don't need to think about the long term for now. Just devote yourself to a successful Plan B. It will remove her madness from your life and give you peace and quiet to make the most important decision of your life. You have echoed so many of my innermost feelings tonight (it is night in HK!). You will be in my thoughts. TT

NCW,

I'm not sure you saw this reply i posted in i'ville to you last night:


I figured posting in here, you would be more likely to see my post.

others have talked about how RAP needs IC too. what do you think?

NC,

I have been following your story for what seems like years. And sometimes I feel I have something to say, but for some reason I often don't feel I have much to offer. Right now I am sort of in the middle.

A thought struck me as I was reading this thread, and it is sort of orthogonal to what is being discussed. But, perhaps it will be helpful. I hope so.

It seems to me that one thing is often confused in our modern society with all of the entertainment available to everyone. It is the concept that someone should "fight" FOR their marriage. You don't love them if you don't "fight" for the marriage. I have mentioned to people that I would NOT fight to keep my W from doing something she wants, but I would fight anyone to protect her or who was threatening OUR marriage. I would happily fight along side her no matter the odds.

It seems to me NC, that is what you are struggling with. Your instincts say to "fight", but you KNOW she does not want the marriage right now, so you would be "fighting" to have her do something she does NOT want to do. If you love her, this causes great conflict within you.

NC, have you told her you love her? Have you showed her you love her? Have you offered forgiveness, and another chance? Have you been patient, thoughtful, prayerful?

I believe I know the answers to these questions. If you have then perhaps it is time to (in military parlance) call for a strategic withdrawal. Not give up the fight, but withdraw from the field of battle and rest the troops, resupply, evaluate the strategy. I believe that is precisely what plan B is.

NC, I don't think it is time for you to quit. I do think it is time for you to withdraw from the battle and address the conflicting realization that while your instincts say "fight" for the marriage, the reality is that you cannot if it is NOT what she wants.

I think it is time to peacefully have a strategic withdrawal and see if your love, your patience, and the woman you know is inside of her will win out.

Just some thoughts, hope they help a bit.

God Bless,

JL

NCW,

I have followed your story somewhat. I am truly sorry for what you are going through.

My question for all here is this; How do you "help" someone get the counseling they so obviously need? And even if you persuade them to do so, how can you be assured that that person is taking it(C) seriously and really getting the most out of it??

NCW,
I am by no means an expert here. From all my reading tho, it does seem that Plan B may be right for you. You are emotionally distraught(understandably so) and this is why you should NOT consider permanent decisions(D) right now. Plan B is to give you the distance and peace that you really need right now. So that you can save love(if any, even a teense) for your WW and make your decisions in a calm and rational atmosphere. Although I would like to point out that "rational" seems to be exactly what you are NOT dealing with right now.

I am with you, as gloomy these days. I get really tired of reading about all these idiotic WSs.

jls

sorry to jump right on, when not invited, but sometimes I just gotta'! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi NC,

just wanted to say hi to you. what JL and JLSeagull have said makes a lot of sense. you are in my prayers.

You all have put into words better than what I have. You have said things I have left out.

Do I want a divorce? No. I love my wife. I can't imagine anyone replacing her.

Do I want to stay married? No. I can't emotionally, physically, or financially support her current lifestyle choices and ALSO say I am doing what is best for my family.

I can't make her do anything, including love me. So I am choosing between the lesser of two evils.

I am divorcing her so I can continue to at least be a good father. I mean, I AM a good husband, but that effort is going to naught. It is as RIF said, a strategic withdrawal.

She may come around. She may not. But in my mind, progress cannot be made WITHOUT a few conditions. And these are more from me considering her behavior against what I know as wisdom. And I may be wrong. But I have thought and prayed about what she needs to "get right" again. And I don't think SHE really knows what she needs.

And I am afraid for her. Afraid she will have to hit rock bottom. But if I continue to stand beside her, it will only prolong that. There are plenty of people who love her. Plenty of people who will pick her up when she realizes what she as done (me included). And she knows this.

NCWalker

Dear NCW,

Yesterday in one of your posts to me you mentioned your resentment and for some reason the pain I felt in that word stayed with me last night and all day today.

I am not a Christian, but maybe there is something for you still to do before the day is done? You can thank Him.

Thank Him with prayer - for the crummy day and gloomy mood tonight and the 7 separations, the WW and the OM and the great kids and the new job and WW Not wanting to join you... thank Him for your capacity to be grateful. For all of it. All of the bad things too. Because they are there for a reason. They have to be.

I'll give thanks too.
Very Brash Sally

All,

Can I just say thanks.

I have been a little down because things have been going good for me. In every way EXCEPT my marriage. I just really wanted someone special to share all this great stuff.

I just bragged on I'ville and I am going to brag here, too. I am a fine man. I am a good man. My morals are intact. My judgement is usually sound. I stay healthy. I am usually upbeat. I am a good friend to have. I am capable at lots of things.

I just had my birthday. I am now 38 years old. Closer to the grave than Pepperband. (Inside joke from another thread).

Why am I so good? THE SERVANT'S HEART. I served my God when I could. I served my wife when I could. I served my sons, my friends, my boss, and on...

Just like the rest of us.

I am a fine man and my WS IS a big part of that. And I will be grateful to her for that.

I don't know what I am trying to say. I really feel I am on the verge of something wonderful.

Maybe I have served TOO much and now I am drawing some unmoving lines in the sand. Capturing my wild spirit of my youth. I don't know. But I feel really charged up. A part of my life is over and I am excited about what the future will hold for me.

For it may not be what I expected, but why do you ride the rollercoaster, right? If you want predictability, ride the dang merry-go-round.

It was the servant who risked the most with the Master's talents that got the greatest reward.

It was Joshua and Caleb who entered the promised land, for they trusted God and did not fear the giants in the land.

It was those who gave up their comfort zones, what they knew, and dropped everything who got to stride next to the Son of God and bask in his glory.

It was Peter's desire to do what could not be done that prompted his heart to call out to God that allowed him to walk on the water.

That's what I want to do. Walk on the water. Seek my God when it screams foolishness and that I will sink.

If that isn't a satisfying situation to my wife, I can't wait for her to make up her mind. My travel plans are booked up, she can take my hand and go, but I can't wait anymore. I have a life to live too.

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Lor, Thanks for the info. I understand now. Our sitch's are a little different, but I see now where you are coming from and I understand. And no, I haven't thrown in the towel. I have come to the realization that SHE may choose to follow a different path. I can't. And adultery is FAR from the road I have chosen.

But your right. God is miraculous. And his miracles have a neat way of surfacing when we don't expect 'em. Has happened to me before. Unexpected miracles, I mean.

Another one of NCW's favorite quotes: "It's best not to count a dragon out of your plans if there happens to be one living nearby." J. R. R. Tolkein

God's miracles are like that. Powerful like a dragon. I don't count them out of my plans.

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Bob, I agree. Wholeheartedly. EVERYONE who knows her says this behavior is uncharacteristic. She has always been one of the best. But how HARD is it really to have NC? She beat it once. All she has to do is pack up and move to where I am. The kids will be here soon. I haven't given up, I have just stopped supporting her habits. She can do what she wants, I am just no longer enabling her.

Had a prophetic dream. Scared the hell out of me. I have had 5 now, about this issue. And 4 out of 5 have come to pass. So I wouldn't bet against NCWs LAST one, given the history. Sometimes Satan gives you something good to keep you from the best. I think she is "settling" and if it makes her happy, I bear her know ill will. I really don't. But my boundaries I have now drawn are not unreasonable. Or at least they weren't when she said them on our wedding day. But don't worry. I have rescued her before, I will do it again if I have to. I am just not enabling her anymore.

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TummyTuck, I have always wanted to see the orient. Got close once. Glad I could touch your heart. From what I have seen, it is beautiful and I consider it a priviledge. You will be in my thoughts, too. Thanks for the reply on I'ville.

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Mr. Seagull - Jump in any time. If I didn't want anyone jumping in, I wouldn't post. I too, tire of seeing "irrational" behavior. Be it a WS, or someone in the real world. But irrational is my definition. Don't be gloomy, look at it like good ole mother earth. We have a period of light and basking in the sun, and we have a period of dark, where all that wonderful heat and energy we soaked up is rejected into the cold dark night, never to be seen again.

But that is the ENGINE that makes our physical environment go. All living things, the weather, I mean everything WE need to live. It is NOT just the sun. It is the absorption/rejection cycle. It is the dichotomoy, the polarization, the CONTRAST.

I would ask. Would we intrinsically KNOW good if we had never experienced evil? Would you embrace NEVER experiencing evil (or irrationalism, or stupidity, or whatever) if it meant you might risk not being able to discern good? How could one appreciate heaven without experiencing earth?

I have been to the gloomy place. Wish I had the strength to not go in when it beckons. Reminescent of the dream of fleeing where you just can't run fast enough to get away. The draw sometimes is irresistable.

But like anything else, you will leave it when you choose. So while you are there, drink one for me, refresh your appreciation for the beauty of the rest of the world, and come back out. We will still be here when you do and think none the worse. After all, YOU didn't when we were there. But it is warm, out here in the sun. Or maybe I should say Son.

===========

Brother Learning - And one of the BEST ways to learn is to teach, thank you for that.

Before I get serious - ORTHOGONAL thought? Good word usage. 'Twas brillig in the slithy toves...

Yes. Life to me is combat. I live for the battle. It consumes me. I have the full translation of my given name. Know what my name means? "Warlike from the dark waters of the beast." I have a problem knowing when a fight is not worth it. My motivation is the problem noone else can solve. I think I got so consumed in the fight, that I did not notice that the OBJECT, the REASON, for the battle left a while ago.

Look how combative some of my posts get. My upbringing was high pressure. I thrive in the chaos. So much so that I cannot enjoy the peace. That's what my wife brought to me. Enjoyment of the peace. Boy. I am really getting melodramatic here, but I am actually scared that now that is gone, the chaos will be embraced again. Thankfully I am older (and since I age in dog years, I am MUCH older than Pepperband, sorry, joke from another thread) and have sons, and responsibility, and all the anchors that come with that. The wife rescued me from chaos LONG ago. A serious debt. Which kept me going for quite some time through all this. But the difference is there is no honor in what she is doing. There is too much pain she is giving, whether intentional or negligent, I don't know.

==========

FL - The sister that I never had. Thanks. A strange pair are we, huh? If we could just trade a few components here and there, all our problems would be answered. The most beautiful flowers tend to be the hardest to grow. Me? I can run the mess out of a weedwacker (chaos, remember?) You keep tending that garden. It'll bear fruit.

==========

Sally A, I am just internally marvelling at you. Literally, I am grinning ear to ear that you took the time to wander over here and post to me. So fresh into your own situation.

Let me tell you one thing you need to let just sink in to your brain. You are at the embarkation point of a journey that is going to be rough. And regardless the port that your ship arrives in, YOU will be a better sailor for the trip. Don't forget that, OK? The most precious thing you can get from this experience, the only thing that can't be stripped away by the sometimes painful world, is the self-discovery of Sally A. Believe me, you will KNOW who YOU are when this is all over. Make sure when you get panicky, or hurt, or distressed, or depressed, that you remember that those things will pass, but the things you find out about yourself NEVER WILL. Make sure you do the things that will endear your soul to yourself on the journey.

===========

When the fight is done, the heroes, win or lose, are the onese who are happy with who they are at the end. Those who served. Those who are true. Those who are compassionate. Those who do not harshly judge. Those who are more concerned for their fellow man then themselves. Those whose greatest satisfaction is to be nothing more than a light to the world around them. They are my heroes.

I am NCWalker ... hear me ROAR!!!!

Hey NC - I never even realized how great my 'reward' would be way back when I was going through my personal He** In my mind, I was risking my 'manhood', my self respect, my sanity, my life (as I was VERY suicidal for many months after learning of Mrs. RIF's "first" A), and my daughter's happiness. The risks were great for me, but looking back, they were well worth the risk.

God was the only thing that I had to trust. I couldn't trust Mrs. RIF - she continued to have more A's. I couldn't trust myself - I 'knew' about one more A, but chose not to believe it because I didn't want to believe it. Those were some pretty big 'giants' and I didn't know how to deal with any of them... all I could do was trust that God would get me through.... and He did.

I gave up my self respect - Everyone told me to divorce Mrs. RIF, I'm sure they thought I was a wuss for staying with her. I gave up my happiness - I was miserable for the remaining three years that we were in Europe, and our marriage was very unsatisfying for 10 long years afterwards. I gave up my right to divorce Mrs. RIF against the advice of all my co-workers and family. In the end, it was worth it to me to give up my 'rights'.

I haven't walked on water, but I consider the fact that Mrs. RIF and I are still married today and that we're truly one with each other in His eyes, to be just a great a miracle as walking on water!

NC - I'm glad that you've come to your decision. You've given some great examples from the Bible, and I've tried to show you how they've related to my personal situation. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I pray that one day RAP will return to you. You keep your head held high and know that God will bless you for your faithfulness.

Semper Fi,
RIF

NCW

It is emerging clearly to me from your developing posts that you are innately removing yourself from a place of responsibility for RAPs affairs. That is a true blessing.

Now I also recognise this - it is somewhat humbling and also emasculating to realise that for a while at least we, who are supposed to be our wives's everythings , were not important enough to have any serious effect, good or bad on their decision to risk all that is good in their lives.

We weren't even in the equation. We who have loved them, shared life's adventures and tribulations with them, created children in love with them, prayed with them and cursed with them ,did not even show upon their sin-led RADAR at that time.

This killed me. If I was culpable at least I was important to her right ?

Then I realised after prayer and study that it was actually quite liberating. We are free to consider how our spousehood could be improved , how our leadership of our famiies could be better , more effecive and Godly and how we could repent of mistakes we made in our marriage prior to the affair, but we can do that without feeling like we are sat amidst ruin from our own shelling.

I am sure that in some cases even spouses who have been MBers from day 1, meeting ENs and avoiding LB s up that WAZOO might find themselves with a cheating spouse.

RAPs affairs were not your fault. They were her method of scratching an itch within her. A bad bad choice, but HER choice.

Continue in your liberated thinking. Repent and resolve your failings as a hisband and father but also rejoice in the core of decency you so obviously have, and take pride in the goodness God gave you.

And take no more blame in this mess that is your dessert.

All blessings NCW. ALL blessings.

NCW - I am very curious because there seems such a 'spring in your step' at the moment. Has a significant 'other' entered your life at all? Be honest with me!

I ache to get rid of my guilt. I am heavily burdened by HIS affair. I want to feel like you are. What has changed? TT

Are you filled with the Holy Spirit? The Word seems to be flowing from you. I have been praying to get my joy back. Some how even though I said I would not I have let the enemy still my joy from me. All of my life is wonderful and awesome except my marriage. And the hurt, pain, & rejection from my unhealthy marriage is enough to overshadow all of the wonderful blessings in my life. I know and believe in the word, but my joy at the present time is sadly deplinished.

RIF,

You are not going to let up on me are you? I DO realize what the reward of a reconciliation would be. She doesn't. It is not that I am afraid of continuing, I just don't want to. Not with the marriage, the wife, that she can be for me. It has been a liberating experience.

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b0b pure,

You hit some nails right on the head, mate. I DO feel faulty, unworthy, unlovable. When I let myself. That is the current route of attack that the enemy is taking. And he loves to push the buttons. It only gets to me when I let it. But you know the drill. I am refusing to accept that. She is making a crazy mistake.

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tummytuck,

There IS a significant other - God. But not the way you are inferring. Maybe one day. You have to understand I STILL love RAP more than anything. I don't know when I will "get over her." And I am still hoping for a chance. I have never been with anyone else, and what I have given her (to me) is a precious gift. It is something I am not willing to sacrifice just yet. And if I DO find someone else, well, it will be a gift to them too. That is probably the part of this that really hurts. SHE HAS a pair of "comforting arms" that I do not to help her through our current stage. One of the more unfair things about this. Me, I am not about to dishonor the memory of the boys mom in front of them. I mean cheapen her value to me. Fot that is what it would be. She has cheapened my value in my sons eyes by so casually choosing these other men. Not gonna do it.

Plus, I am scared to death. I am not looking for the kind of "companionship" that the WS is typically after. I don't even know where to start. I mean, where would I find someone? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I am not good at that "breaking the ice step." I have been alone for quite some time. A little longer won't hurt.

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StormyD,

Does it show? Yes. I am filled with the Holy Spirit. Can't get enough. It is my drug.

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NCWalker