Thanx Trix.....I needed that.

I think you should start sniffing the air when he is around and ask if he can smell 'that stench'. Don't explain just ask. Then walk away. Ask if he maybe stepped in something. Ask then you think there has been contact? It will make him wonder and question his senses. That w/b a good thing.

JMHO,
L.

I swear there must be a MB spy cam around here! Orchid, that happened last night! In an intimate moment, I hesitated and said something smells different and you taste a little different. Were you sweating alot today?

We had our "negotiations" last night. I made it clear that I would not live in limbo. And that I knew NC must be difficult for him but I felt it was essential. That if there was contact I wanted to know about it. He still says there has been no contact. OWH never did do the keylogger but with the new evidence I know that there is still contact.

We talked about alot of things and I admitted that in the past I had not been there for him and took him for granted in a lot of ways. We agreed the trust was a big issue. He has cut down on his meetings and the meetings he goes to he does come home after instead of going out to a bar. I told him I'd like him to tell me what he's doing so I don't have to ask. He said he didn't think we would be able to work this out because I check with his friends to confirm his whereabouts. I agreed I shouldn't have to check with his friends.

I think some good came up in the"talk" but he is still very defensive and not taking responsibility for any part of our problems. I don't know how much was able to penetrate the fog. I told him that I felt he was still protecting OW and their R. I told him (and I truely believe it)that I did not blame OW for the problems in our marriage but we would not be able to resolve those problems if he was still turning to her for support and advise. That was why NC, even if it was just phone calls or email, was essential. He again looked me in the eye and said there had been NO CONTACT. I don't believe him.

I asked him about my journal. He did say he took it because he didn't want the kids to find it. I don't know how much of it he read, he said I'd been too graphic in it. I told him he was welcome to read it because they are all letters to him anyway. And that most of it was written when I was alone and upset when he was out drinking and whereabouts unknown. The 1st draft of my PBL was in there with the changes from ARK^^. I know he read most of it because he asked what SIL ment. I had chosen SIL as mediator for Plan B. So he already knows whats in the letter. Does this make the letter ineffective? Do I have to start all over with a new letter? Because God help me I meant every word in the last one. I love my H and I want my marriage to work and be fullfilling and happy, but this man I'm dealing with now, I don't know if its possible.

He took both the kids to work with him for take you child to work day. My DD even put a skirt on! My DS actually wore dress pants that weren't falling off his butt and a button down shirt. They got up at 5:30 AM (EST) and were dressed inunder 15 minutes. They love him so much. WHy can't he see the value of our family? I hate that he has made OW more important than us!!

I have to go into work.

Anyone have any suggestions on what to do with my Plan B letter?

Hello! I'm new here and was reading different posts for insight.

Perhaps I missed something...but when you posted your letter previously, some others made some excellent suggestions about editing your letter. Is there another draft of your letter with those changes?

Bluegrass, The final draft of my Plan B letter was hand written. I haven't used it yet...it may be time soon and I will have to update for the current situation.

I LOVE Patriot's quick start guide...unfortunately I think my WH is too far gone to even consider it.

I listened to the Dr.Phil show. I felt so bad for Michele I was in my car telling her forget Plan A or B its PLAN D!!

I'm thinking its Plan D for me as well. I have always thought I would be able to forgive WH and move past this time. Problem is he doesn't think he did anything that needs forgiveness. I don't think WH will ever step up to the plate accept responsibility for his A. At that this point I don't really care. I've been grieving the loss of my husband (the man I married)and missing him for a long time. I realize he is gone. My hope is fading fast. I also think "MY give a dam is busted."

Confused,

I know that you're losing hope right now because things aren't working out they way you want, but perhaps it's a little early to be thinking about Plan D. Why not give Plan B a few weeks to work first?

Does OWH know that there is ongoing contact? Perhaps if he knew that there was more to know, he'd be inclined to intall the keylogger.

Is there more exposure that you could do now to discourage your WH from seeing OW? What about the people he's using as excuses to see OW?

Cat

OWH is aware contact is ongoing.

Exposure was wide the first time around. I've not re-exposed that the A continues. I don't know who they are using to cover for them. I think they are not involving anyone else just being more sneaky, having most contact when WH is at work, leaving work early that kind of thing. I thought of exposing him at work but I figure he is jepordizing his career all by himself. Re-exposure will happen when he leaves, which I believe will be SOON.

I'm having a very difficult time even being in the same room with WH. I'm ready for plan B. I can't stand to look at him knowing he continues to lie to me. I need to protect myself, this pain is different. Before my heart was breaking I was sad and angry, but hopeful that we would pull through this. I feel empty, like I've got nothing left to give. Now I'm hoping it was over. I'll do plan B for a while maybe thru the summer before I file the D papers.

I just got in. I went out with friends from work tonight (all female). God it felt good just to laugh and joke around. I'm ok. I read my earlier post and it sounded very depressing and whiney. Actually I'm not depressed, I think I've reached a level of acceptance.

I hate this time we are going through...best case scenerio WH would come out of the fog see things clearly and commit to marriage...or not....then I move on and raise my kids and enjoy my life and career. Spending time with my friends reminds me I'm ok and I'm still me. I still have my stupid sense of humor, there are people that love me and value me and I can still tie a cherry stem with my tongue! I'll be just fine. I can look myself in the mirror and like the person looking back at me. I have no regrets, I have truely loved and felt loved for a long time and I will be loved again.

It looks like they had a good time on the homefront, they made a fire and the kids are having a sleep out in the RV
with WH. I'm going to take a HOT shower and hog the king size bed to myself. (although the cats will probably sneak in.)

I wish us all a peaceful & restful night

Ok, stupid question how do you enforce boundries?

Hi C. !

Just rereading your thread. This is a very good question that it took me a long time to answer.

With your KIDS the boundaries are THEIRS. " you ar enot yet mature enough to be fully responsible for your own safety and well being, so I lovingly guide you to behave in a way that is best IMO".

With your H the boundaries are YOURs not HIS.

You can't make him do anything , and nor would you want to. In my own case I would'nt want to shackle Squid to me, or coerce her into behaving in a way I find acceptable.

I want her to behave in a way that is respectful and supportive of me because she wants to. Thats the only sustainable plan.

All I can do is tell her that I will not allow myself to be treated in certain ways.

My boundaries were NC, respect , POJA, honesty.

Not details like 'times to be home' etc. Such details were to be agreed between us using POJA.

When Squid chose to treat me with dosrespect and contact OM, I removed myself from the situation and made it very clear to her that I would not sustain effort in a relationship where I was not protected from hurt.

Not a threat, just a stated, firmly held consequence.

I told Squid that she was free to go elsewhere to treat someone else with such disrespect but that I would not allow myself and my kids to be treated in that way for long.

Its all part of Ark's template for a plan A 'lighthouse'. Loving, rigthteous, calm but also serious.

I feel I have rambled now, but I hope I have managed to show you what boundaries were and ARE to me.

FWIW my boundaries are exactly the same NOW as they were during Squids affair. But now the border guard is alseep mostly with cobwebs on him ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

We POJA everything, not because its the MB way but because we both realise its a magnificently simple tool for conflict avoidance and cementing partnership.

We 'plan A' each other - avoiding lovebusters, and meeting ENs as we can.

When these things are earnestly done boundaries are enforced by default.

All blessings. Have hope. We were in a terrible state a few months ago, and now we are in a good recovery.

Hi C42,

U R at a point where identifying and implementing your boundaries are sorely needed. You have to step out of plan A and into plan B for your santity.

Identify your personal support group (includes people, pets and things), whatever helps you keep your sanity. It is good to realize you are still sane and can enjoy life. It is a big moral booster to be able to enjoy yourself and you realize how much the WS and A have drained you as a person. It will soon make you quite angry so plan B is essential before you get hung up on that point.

Can you call Steve for some good MB coaching?

Bob gave you some valuable insight with his experience. Please read his thread again and absorb the impact of his experience.

Let us know how you are doing.

take care,
L.

bOb and Orchid thank you so much for your replies. Your advice and support is much appreciated.

I'm trying to save for a session with SH but my work has been sporadic and funds are tight right now.

Now that I feel a little "detached" from my situation. I'm making some interesting observations. Before A was initially exposed WH & OW had constant open contact with eachother under the guise of family friends. Now they are still in contact but not nearly the same amount that they had been. WH has bee turning to other friends. Most are male but one in particular is a divorced, younger, childless female. I don't get any vibes from her like I did OW but he has been talking to her more. She has been there when he goes out with male friends and last night she was here with three other friends while I was out.

Part of me thinks....he's doing this so when I say something about it he can say "See I told you, you're jealous of all my friends!"

Then the other part thinks.....he's grooming the next "special" friend. I wonder what the OW would think about that?

I anticipate Plan B next week. Just checking on the ducks.

C42,

Time to tighten the noose around the A. Implementing plan B can help do that but more importantly it will protect you.

If he is grooming another or even talking to anyone instead of you, he is conflict avoiding and w/b heading to another A (even if it with a guy), yep that's right...... So you need to address the real issues (his real ENs - not meet them ID them and let him know you know what they are but do not offer to meet them until he can clean up his act), identify your boundaries and implement them.

This is prime for plan B. He is vulnerable for attention and needs to get his act together. There w/b always a listening ear out there in the world. The other body parts come in stages as a result but you can't build a family or a life on body parts, we all need a whole complete person not body parts. That is what I see EA and PAs as, getting other people's body parts to meet selfish needs without fixing or getting help for the person as a person. This makes the WS a fragmented person and that c/b why they become so foreign to us. I mean this may sound gross but if you were to see your H's ear lying on the side of the road and then his thigh at the OW's house with his pants on the front lawn, would you always recognize it is him? Probably not and even if you did it w/b scary. That's what an A is, it is a scary recognition of our spouses in a disjointed way. Yuck, it is hard even to write but it sure describes why the A and the WS seem so foreign to us.

Hope this vivid description doesn't ruin your weekend. Just imagine that a WS is a disconnected bunch of body parts and not your H. You and your family want your H back right? Let your WS know you want him to go find your H and bring your H home not this disjointed guy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

take care,
L.

Thanks Orchid,
I think your description makes sense. Don't worry,I'm a nurse it takes a lot gross me out.

Before A, I used to tease H about one of his male friend's "its your girlfriend on the phone!" Just joking, no physical attraction but strong bond. I never thought much about it.

I talked w/ WH tonight. I told him that I still loved him and almost more then anything I wanted our marriage to work. I told him when he came home i wanted to believe that he wanted the marriage to work, I had accecpted responsibilty in some of the marital dysfunction, I know there are no garuntees but was willing to work on forgiving him. There were 3 things I needed from him 1) NO CONTACT w/ OW 2)honesty 3)treat me w/ respect. I told him I knew that he lied to me and that contact is ongoing with OW. And by lying to me and continuing to see OW he was disrespecting me. He tried to turn it around but I wouldn't allow it. I told him it was not good enough. I asked him if he would like our DD (10) future H to treat her the way he is treating me. He said "No I wouldn't want that for her". Its the first honest statement I've heard in a long time. Then he just sat there and looked at me....I looked back and told him I was waiting for a response.He said he didn't know waht to say. I asked why he was able to talk to everyone else and not to me. I said "This is one of the areas we need to work on but until you have NC w/ OW and talk to me honestly, we won't be able to do anything!"

I told him that the way we were living was unacceptable, eventhough I loved him and wanted our marriage to work that I could not allow him to continue to treat me this way. He needs to leave and figure out what he wants. And only when he gives up OW would I even consider working on marital issues. I told him he came home too soon the last time it was a little uncomfortable and he didn't like it. I deserve a H who makes me a priority in his life and I willaccept no less. I will continue discussion tomorrow and pin point when he will be leaving.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am sure this was hard but it is a necessary positive step. Your H is smart enough to know he doesn't want his daughter subjected to such treatment yet he is willing to subject you to this and more.

U have given him food for thought, now he has to digest it. I see this as a very good and positive thing even if he moves out. Don't let that scare you from your stance.

take care,
L.

MB friends,
It is with heaviness in my heart that I write this post. You have been my solace in a time of crisis in my life. I will not be able to use this forum as I have been. I will check in to let you know I'm ok and I will be watching those in situations similar to mine. My WH has either put a keylogger on my computer or he and /or OW are lurking in the forum. OW had info that I only posted here. Hopefully as they have been lurking they have been learning as well.
I thought of posting false information, but I would not disrespect you and this forum that has given such strength.

MB has saved my sanity. I had been trying to cope with this situation without the right tools. I had confided in only a couple of people before and the burden was too much. They are emotionally invested and had no experience to offer. You have been my sounding board, my support, you helped me find comfort and direction when I didn't know where to turn. For this I will always be thankful and I will always remember.

I now have a plan and the strength and the tools to implement it. I will not be dragged into the drama and the chaos of the A. I'm done playing the game. My kids and I have lives to live. We have already wasted too much time on this.

THANK YOU AGAIN !{{{{{{{{{{{{all of you}}}}}}}}}

Spoke with WH told him I will be seeing lawyer Thursday. He agreed to separation. I had tried to talk with him earlier today, I turned off the edit button but that unintentionally turned on the b-tch button. I apologized for my attitude but it was too difficult living under the same roof. DD came up behind me while I was doing dishes and crying. She doesn't see me cry I tried to reassure her but she ended up comforting me, which is making me cry right now thinking about it. Kids can be amazing.

Looking forward to plan B and some peace.
I don't care if OW and WH see this. You bring me solace.

I will be praying for you C42. I know that I prayed a lot during our ordeal which, I believe, helped lots.

C42,

Children are amazing and know how to help us parents in true times of need. Imagine that your child knows that a WS is not a good parent if he can bring such pain into your family. So it is not directly aimed at your child? But your child still has been hit.

For the WS and OW that are reading this, you 2 are bad people. Your actions have taken you from probably being good people to unscrupulous at best. If you think you are different from others who are having an affair, the world will only laugh at your illogic. Your babble lines are classic and you go by the book of the A without even realizing your illness has you programmed t/b selfish to the core.

Can't help you OP and WS until you both come back to reality. Til then I hope you have some shred of decency to nto inflict further pain on the WS' family. I also hope the OP can refrain from hurting her family with the selfish antics of your stupid A.

If your blood isn't boiling yet from reading this, maybe the WS and OP are 2 far gone to see the light through the fog. Living a lie based on more lies is not a way to build any sort of solid relationship. It isn't a matter of if the affair will crumble, it is just a matter of when. So hang onto your A because it is a fake and temporary happiness at best. Smile because the rest of the world who knows the A is going on are not laughing with you but they are laughing.

L.