WH & I had long conversation last night. I found out that he has spoken w/OW in the past 2 weeks, not sure exactly when. I became SO angry!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3 weeks ago we were both ready to walk out, both saw atty's, I began the exposure to both of our families. That pretty much put a stop to the A, I thought. WH had 'awakening', said he finally saw the OW in the real light, that she is not someone that he can see in his life w/his family, or w/his friends. Said he really wanted to try to work things out.

Things have been pretty good for the past 3 weeks. Of course there have been moments, but no major LB's. I know that OW called him after 10 days to confirm his decision & he basically told her it is over & hung up on her. Have seen WH going through some major depression, withdrawl & heard some fog talk. But I really believed he has been trying. I have been doing plan A, pretty well I think. There has still been tension, but no major arguments or LB's. WH has even made some attempts at meeting my EN's, gave me some complements on my appearance, helping out w/DD & he is even switching his shift @ work next weekend to try to give us some more time together.

Well last night the bottom dropped out. WH said he had spoken w/OW, admitted he called her sometime during the past 2 weeks. I am kicking myself for not pushing the issue of the NC letter, but I know my H and if you try to get him to do anything he is so resistant & pushes further away. Total rebellion. Anyway, he said that yes, things have been a lot better & says he even told OW that, that he just wanted to talk to her as friends. I told him that is not OK w/me, they cannot be just friends & that I will not sit around while he continues any contact w/her. He says he knows this & does not know why he felt he needed to call her, he just did. He was upset because she was going out w/another guy. I told him this should be a major sign to him that their 3 month A was not enough for her to be 'in love' like he says he was.

I tried to explain the MB principles, WH will not read any of the books in entirety, will just read certain parts if I point them out. But all he keeps saying is that he wants us to both be happy, whether that means we need to be apart or together. Says we are not happy, that we don't have fun together as a couple & have nothing in common or to talk about. I tried to explain to him that a lot of the way he is judging our marriage is based on the withdrawl that he is going through & that it is not fair to any of us for him to be trying to make such judgements while he is going through the withdrawl. I also pointed out to him that by him having contact w/OW again that it just puts him back to square one & prolongs the withdrawl phase & prevents us from getting to the recovery phase. H says that he understands this, but I am not sure he really does.

This morning I was so upset before I left for work that I woke H up to tell him he better think hard today about what he really wants because I can't go on living like this. I feel like I am the other woman in his life rather than his wife. I was crying very hard & could hardly talk. WH tried to get me to stay home from work w/him because he is off today, but I told him that I couldn't spare the day off because I may need those days in the future if he is not there to help me w/DD.

WH just called me at work. Said that he really wants to work at this. Appologized for contact w/OW. Said he understands that put him back to the start of withdrawl again. Said he really wants to try switching his shift to give us more time together. Said he also wants to try to find some more couple friends to hang out w/that have children, like us, that may be a better influence. I told him that he cannot keep stringing me along. That I really love him & want to be w/him, but I need to see change on his part as much as he wants to see change on my part. Told him that I want him to continue IC as well as MC w/me, that I want to keep going to IC myself too. He wasn't too keen on the IC part, I think he thinks that I am the one who needs it, to be 'fixed', and that we only need MC together. But he has IC appt on Monday that he made for himself. Who knows!?

Is there hope for us??? (Sorry this is soooo loooonnnngggg!)

Mixed_Molly,

I’m glad your H was at least honest with you about his ‘slip-up’ and contact with the OW and this is a sign that there is hope... Here is a link to my withdrawal thread. It will give you some insight & advice.

Blessings,
Suzet

Suzet

Thanks for the link. I have e-mailed it to WH with a note that I would like to talk about it with him. This is what I wanted to discuss w/him last night, but did not know how. He has admitted to the feeling of withdrawl, so I know that is what he is going through. I just hope he is strong enough to hang in there. I feel like this is the rollercoaster ride of my life & I'm having such a hard time hanging on!

MM,
As a currently reforming WH, I have to say, Suzet's guide to withdrawal is very comprhensive, even from a males point of view. I would just encourage you and WH to take things one day at a time...and at the very least, if you are capable of hearing it, encourage him to share all of his temptations to contact or be contacted by OW, and anything else for that matter, with you, asap...then that way, your a team in this, and your in the loop before the little secrets start to breed...All the hope to you. Hang in there.

JenniJsH

[color:"midnightblue"]'Suzet' was once in your H's shoes, going through withdrawal from her OM friend, so she knows what she is talking about.

And Jenn's H, gave good advice about encouraging your H to share with you; don't make him afraid to tell you stuff.

'Mixed Molly' it seems that we as betrayed wives, have to have an EXTRA amount of understanding.

Our H's received SO MUCH attention and affection from their OW so OF COURSE they feel a big void without them in their lives. (Their SECRET lives.)

They also have to pile on top of this rejection from the OW (since she has a NEW boyfriend) the HUGE GUILT that since it is no longer a secret, it is their fault that they have deeply hurt their wife and family IMMENSELY.
(Their wives were actually hurt even before they knew, just different for the WH when their wives know.)

'cardsonly' wrote this message in a post in 'Hiker's thread'.....It seems to describe a WS feelings quite well:[/color]

" For me, the feelings & "highs" of the EA were feelings I haven't had for many years. I've been married for 18 yrs! What wonderful feelings! But now, wondering how to live without them - or - how to transform your M to once again have them. I'm struggling with if it's even possible to have them with H, or adjust life differently and fill it with something else.

I know EXACTLY what you mean when you said the A filled a hole that you didn't really even know was there. THEN, a bigger hole is left when it's over. Sometimes I wish to just feel as I did before the EA, other times I don't want that because I know it wasn't good either. I think life is constantly changing and what we've done & been through we will just have to adapt to accordingly. Hopefully TIME will help heal these issues. "

[color:"midnightblue"]I think when we DEMAND no contact, it doesn't work near as well as it does when our H genuinely WANT no contact themselves. I actually suggested a couple times that my H call the OW, just to see how she was, as that seemed to make him NOT want to as much as if he had to do it SNEAKEDLY. (He did call her twice in my presence but she had found another and didn't want him calling.) WHAT A DEAL!

What I did was to decide to give my Marriage my ALL.
Including some GREAT SEX to make new memories in that brain of his.

I had read this (below) somewhere on this message board and we did it more than once.
HAD CAR SEX...It was exciting to me as well...If someone would have seen us with me on my hands and knees and him standing outside the car door (doing me) we would have probably been arrested!!! (And we are not YOUNG, have been married for 35 years!)

Well, if nothing else, I hope anyone reading this is SMILING some at picturing this scenerio!~lol~

We each felt like a couple of teenagers with no where to go but parking!
And those memories remain very EXCEPTIONAL to me! Maybe we will make some new 'car' memories this summer!~lol~

Love, Julie [/color]

"Adolescent sexuality - Carder illustrated this by rhetorically asking " When was the last time you had sex in the car at the beach?" He pointed out that almost all affairs have sex in the car or in some similar place. Most marriages have sex as a routine and predictable. That teenage playfulness, wrecklessness, that we had when we were dating and young still needs to creep in there once in a while. I won't spill the beans but we've had a great time with this one."

MM

Yes in a word withdrawl sucks....for everybody and it comes and goes so when you think your done you aren't and then a long time passes and guess what? you have to "go" again....Someone ought to invent a pill for withdrawls kind of imodeum for past A's.

There was a time when OW contacted me....nine months after D-Day. It wasn't fair that she did but I couldn't say no...The A didn't restart but we continued contact for awhile and then I guess I wore off her and it stopped. I knew in my head that neither of us weren't going to leave our spouses but somehow I thought this "would work"????? Now that is real fog <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

You do need to have mass quantities of time together.

Sometimes it take some of us longer than others to "get it". I am so lucky that my W has been so patient with me certainly beyond what I deserve. If I ever "needed to call her" I knew why I needed that( and so does your H)...There is no real mystery. It built up my ego, it made me feel loved, perhaps it was a chance to vent or just hear her voice.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So if he wants that and you need him to read then he has to read.


You have fun by making fun...you have things in common by building things in common...if you need something to talk about tell him to read a book...He really doesn't believe this BullS*** This is more fog talk and you and he can't wait for the "fog" to clear you turn on the "fog lights" and start looking for a place to "land".

You have made your boundries very clear...I am proud of you...Neither you or he need to be "fixed" what needs fixin is how you comunicate your needs and how you respond to the needs of eachother. It will never be perfect but it never will be even Adam and Eve had their moments and look where it got us.
H

By the way BT...I think I'll show Mrs H the part about the car...talk about finding "things in common"

Hiker,

I really appreciate your support. This helps me immensely & keeps this situation in perspective. I have finally gotten WH to look @ this website. Asked if he could do that if he is not willing to read SAA & HNHN. He was more agreeable to that & that made me feel a little better.

Thanks to everyone for the support. I can't say how encouraging it is to hear from FWS's to know that there is hope & that I can't give up this soon.

Oh yeah, had to laugh @ BT's great suggestions of car sex also! That is something to think about!

MM

We are emotional creatures. I feel that once attached we remain attached often times when the person is so unworthy of that affection. At least with this theory it helps me to understand why former lovers can re-establish themselves after years of seperation often times living entire lives, many times very happy fullfilled lives, and after losing a spouse to death reunite with that "old flame". Even after betrayal the betrayed can accept the betrayer back into their lives. Children so often eager to forgive the abusing parent. Our hearts are "big" with great capacity to love and forgive.

Even a "roller coaster ride" can be thrilling. We reluctantly get on for the ride and most times exit in laughter. We laugh as we exit perhaps because we "survived" the ride even though we were confidant that we would survive when we bought our ticket. Loving and forgiving is certainly a risky business. It would be nice to know ahead of time that we will have a "big fat return" for our "investment" but we really never have that assurance. Hopefully we learn from our bad investments and understand that we need to protect those who have invested in us for the long term and not just for a cheap thrill. Being unfaithful was not on my mind on our wedding day and I did not have my fingers crossed when I took a vow of fidelity yet in truth I failed but I do not have to fail forever and neither does your H. Oprah said "failure is God's way of saying don't go there again"...I pray that can be true for all of us.
H

Well, I thought that it couldn't get much worse, but now I think we have hit rock bottom. WH and I had a major blow out last night, in the garage screaming lots of LB's, etc. I told him I wanted the truth, the only way that we could start to rebuild is if we get to the bottom & try to start over. WH said he agreed with this, but not sure if we will ever be able to 'reconnect' and fall in love again. He said again that he is afraid that he will do this again. I told him the only way to not do this again is to avoid putting himself in situations where he is prone to A's!!! (He spends a lot of time going out to bars by himself, and as far as I know all the A's have been women he met in bars). WH says that he is 'comfortable' w/the people in the bars, says that he is happier there than at home. I told him this is a bunch of [email]cr@p[/email], that he is just trying to escape reality. Our MC agrees with this, says that he seems to be hiding from something, just not sure what.

We went on to agree that we have let each other's EN's go for so long. WH says that he feels like he wants to 'change' me. Says that the stuff he told me over the past few weeks about not being attractive enough was not anything, that he has always been happy w/my appearance. Says that in the past that some times have been better than others. Told me that he was completely faithful while I was pregnant & that was the happiest time in his life, the best times we have had together. (not sure I believe this either because he was still going out w/out me while I was pregnant.)

WH then said that when I LB that it pushes him further away. I know that this is true, but it is so hard. He does not want to see any of my anger or hurt, but I feel like he should see this as part of the consequences.

How can I get past this hurt & anger to do a successful Plan A? I am not even sure if Plan A will work at this point. WH has spoken w/the OW in the past two weeks, a little 'slip up', according to him. I have tried explaining the withdrawl & that it will not start to improve until there is NC. I feel like he is still evaluating our marriage based on the feelings he had w/her. I feel like I am being compared to her constantly.

Right now WH is on the fence. He says he is confused, scared, does not know what he wants. Every time we talk all he can respond with is "I don't know". I just want to SHAKE him to his senses! He says over & over that this is not about the OW. Says he has been living two seperate lives, the one he wants to live & the 'family man' that isn't really him, he thinks. What is that all about? I told him he needs to just go & be the person he wants to be then, but that is not what I really want. I want him to wake up & see that he is throwing away the best things that have ever happened to him. He has a lot to lose, financially and otherwise. He knows he will be 'in the hole' and I am so scared that that is the only thing keeping him around. He no longer can say 'I love you'. He still kisses me, but more like a kiss from your brother, if you know what I mean.

After our big blow out on Monday night we hugged & he said he just needed some time to think. Yesterday we spoke by phone a few times, just about appts, etc. WH asked why I was being so cold, said he thought we 'left things on good terms' the night before. He says that he knows the grass is not greener elsewhere, but not sure that he will be happy if we remain together.

He says that I am not outgoing, not adventerous, that I am afraid to do 'everything', but he cannot name anything specific that he wants to do that I have refused to do. He has never asked me to do anything!!!! When we first started MC he said he wants to go hiking & camping, he bought a motorcycle. Based on his response to the EN's questionaire I have determined that recreation is one of his top EN's, so, In the past 2 months I have tried doing these things w/him & enjoyed them, but he never asked me to do those things ever in the 10 yrs we have been together!!! And now it is like he doesn't want me to show interest in those things because he thinks my interest is 'fake'. I can't win! He says he feels like he is asking me to change who I am & he doesn't think that either of us should have to change to be happy together. I have news for him, and so does everyone else who understands how to function in a happy, healthy marriage.

I have called my family dr to see about some AD's because it has become impossible for me to function & think clearly anymore. I am hoping that will help me to calm down & maybe we can then have some more productive conversations, but I just get so frustrated w/his 'I don't know' answers that I am ready to walk out the door!