I am starting new thread so that others will also give me their advice. Please read my thread "Calling Mimi1254".

Mimi1254 has been a life saver during my panic...thanks so much mimi, I am still reading your thread also!

Will someone please help me? Why wont anyone respond?

I'm sorry nobody has responded to you. I seem to always get logged out in the middle of a post. Perhaps I'm not the only one.

Sabot, I feel like I'm in the same boat as you. For my sanity, I need to move into Plan B. Enough of Plan A. Maybe I didn't do it well or maybe WH just couldn't hear it.

At this point, I'm spending a lot of time feeling hurt. WH is completely clueless. He has abandoned our children. He has contact either when we initiate it or he needs something. It feels alot like he just doesn't care. It is all about him.

My kids and I were away last week. I came back feeling so relaxed. It didn't take hardly any contact with him to put me back on edge. Someone posted that I was like two different people. The no contact Grape and the contact Grape. I just have to move away from him.

Everybody says that Plan A should be done for a specific length of time. When and if you determine it's ineffective and you start to really dislike your WS, it's time to drop into Plan B. I'll be working on my letter this weekend.

I don't know if this is any help to you. On the bright side, you did get an answer.

Thanks so much grapegirl for posting to me, I am so sorry your WH is hurting your feelings, it is so awful. I will add you to my prayers and pray for your WH and your family. Here is my post update for last night:
Thanks Pep, I think you are right about my plan A. He said last night I have been so wonderful and understanding. Said I am a better person than him. As far as exposing, I have fought with this a long time, should I expose to OW's family and her job? I have exposed to WH's family. What about his job?

Thanks for checking on me Mimi, I went home last night and WH had even called my cell because I was 10 min. late. (guess he was worried, did say later that he knows I prob. didnt even want to come home) WH had dinner all made and when I walked in he came over and hugged and kissed me and was acting like nothing happened, putting food on the plates. I said to him, we have to talk, I need to get this big elephant out of my living area. He said ok, sat down at the kitchen bar, I had made copies of MB thread on what a WS/Bs need to do to reconcile and also thread on quick guide to withdrawal. I said to him, ok what happened? Did we have a slip up? If so lets talk about it and decide what we are going to to about it. What is your plan? He said I know you need a plan, I said No, WE need a plan. I asked him if he even wanted do NC. He said Yes and I have seriously tried not to dissapoint you. Said he went 2 wks and Tues. he was so frantic and beside himself. I said why didnt you call me? He said I did. Said he wanted to call her alot of times and kept from doing it. I read him the pages of withdrawal, and he said I see alot of what I am going thru in that. Said that when he talked to her it felt like a shot of morphine and he was happy, but then he felt bad because he knew it would hurt me. He said I want to call her right now! This is a new step, small I know but new. He has never told me how he felt. I asked him if he wanted to leave, he said No, said he feels like he is losing his mind, cant concentrate at work, thinks about me, thinks about what hes doing, says you dont know how many times I just want to throw up my hands and just run away from everything! Said he wants it to stop and knows it cannot continue. I asked him about blocking her email, which he said last time (3 wks ago) he did. He said he unblocked it this week. When he said I have been so understanding and that I was better than him, said he couldnt do it, he thinks I have lost my mind too because I am still putting up with him, I told him the only reason I am holding on by a thread is because of him telling me that he wants to stop this and is not giving me attitude at all, or I would be throwing his stuff out the door. So I said we need to do another NC letter. He said to myself! I asked what he meant and asked has she honored that on her end, he thought awhile and said No. I then said to him, I know I will get 2x4'd for this one, lol, but I had to be me,
Ok WH, the way I see it you have a couple of options...another being, I have been counting the months and isnt it prob. about time for you to go see OW to get your "fix"? He said "I am fighting that and what would that solve?" I said well you can go see her and I will go out and get me a hookup. He said, for all I know you prob. already have someone in mind. I said not yet but do have options. He said you shouldnt even have options. I said oh yes, WH like you said to me I am a beautiful woman. Told him that just a couple of weeks ago a man came into my work and while talking asked me if I was married, I told him I'm not sure, my husband is having an affair! WH said "I am not having an affair!" I said ok, so your telling me that emailing and calling another woman telling her you miss her and love her is not an affair? So if I email and call another man stating these things its ok? He said your right, I'm wrong. Said he would miss me too but I am not gone. I said ok so we are back into NC then right? He said Yes. I asked him what can I do to help, he said just hold me.
Then we ended the discussion and he said I'm going to go feed the dogs and I'll be back, just wanted to warn you. I said ok, I havent changed the locks yet! He came back in and said You would change the locks and lock me out of my own house? I said yes and throw your stuff out in the yard. He said I'll tell you what if that happens I will never say I do again and came over to hug me and said you would do that? I said you know I still have to protect my love for you! He said I can understand that.
We started to eat and of course I could not, and he was looking at me and said I know you cant eat can you? Guess I've messed things up again. I said we wont discuss that, lets just move ahead. Went to bed and a commercial came on about some other land and I said lets move. He said WHAT, you wouldnt leave this place, I said thats questionable these days. He said why? I said too many bad memories and not special anymore.He said that doesnt sound good. Then I started crying and told him I dont understand how he could let OW torment me like she has and still think shes so wonderful, when he's got the proof of how cruel she has been! That I could never do that to anyone.He said he guesses he just hasnt thought about it that way and I am right it is unacceptable. I said you are supposed to protect me, you promised and he said you are right and I am going to take care of it! He held me and comforted me,kissing my hand and saying he is sorry. This was hard for me because I dont normally let him see or know that I am hurt.
He woke this morning and actions were completely different than usual. He held me and we talked about his work.
Ok Pep and Mimi, I do feel like we made a small step,what do you think? and what do I do now?
Grapegirl give me your opinion. I want to know how you are doing today as well.

What about the NC Letter and blocking the E-Mail? It seems like you got off-track from this in your discussion. He was serious about continuing to want to contact her. These things need to happen. Further conversation needs to occur today about getting these things accomplished. What about him calling you when he wants to call her? What is he going to do when he has those cravings? Maybe you guys do need to move.

Ok, just so you know, OW lives out of state so not the reason for moving. Sure wouldnt move now that things are up in the air. He did agree to block email again, but how long will that last? He states that he doesnt want to be doing this and wants his life back, but how many time do we allow set backs due to withdrawal? The Plan states Plan B until WS is in AGREEMENT to NC and work towards recovery. He is in agreement but doesnt know how to get past withdrawal!! This is where I am confused! He has agreed to a NC letter AGAIN also! But this will be the second one! So your saying, YES do it again but allow for slips right? I did talk to him about calling me when he has those episodes, explained a little about your sitch. that your H calls you every hour!

It seemed like somehow your conversation with him got off track. It seems like he had a plan that he agreed to stick to, that he recognizes the need for extraordinary precautions and that he will go through withdrawal. This is serious business with need for specific precautionary measures. If he doesn't buy this at this point, time for PLAN B. I would tell him so. I wouldn't necessarily call it PLAN B. I would be serious about YOUR PLAN together. Block the E-Mail, a new NC letter or either hear him tell her in person that he will not contact her ever again in his lifetime. You need to hear and believe that he will maintain such precautions for 3 to 6 months during withdrawal. During this time, you two need to stay in very close contact and spend most of your time together. Remember he is still in the fog given the need for 3 to 6 months of withdrawal before he is over the addiction. A large part of him wants to continue the A. I like it that he understands the addiction aspect. It will be hard for him to get over her after having such a long A. Tell him that if he not able to agree to the extraordinary precautions and NC letter then you will proceed will planning to have NC with him yourself until he can do so. Don't go that place of threatening him that you will also have an A. Stay on course....

ok Mimi, thanks, but seems that if I threaten him with I will have NC with him if he doesnt adhere to the plan, then it contradicts that if he agrees and tries, but do to withdrawal, slips, then he will continue to lie to me about instead of being honest and telling me due to being afraid I will throw him out! Does that make sense?
I just checked his email and she sent him this:
OW: Hey baby, I'm not going to call you anymore so you dont have to lie to sabot about talking to me, but I have worried about you since yest. afternoon, and would love to know if you are ok. I guess its time for both of us to really let go and just learn to live with missing each other. I know you want your marriage to work out...and as long as there is any connection between us, you will always feel guilty and have to lie to her. I love you with all my heart, and will miss you terribly...butall I ever wanted was for you to be happy...and I know you are not now. I will still prob email you my new address and phone number, just so I know you know how to get me if you need me. Please let me know if you are okay...and then you can be done with me, and make your life easier. Love ya...and am terribly worried.

OMG, hold me back!!! I could hurt this skank! This is always the ploy she pulls about "worrying" about my H!

SHE IS SICK SICK SICK!!!! I cannot believe my H cares about this devil woman!!!

Analyze it for me...what does this snakes babble mean???

Hasnt blocked her email yet I see!! But then again it wasnt solid in our discussion evidently!!

I just want to make copies and send to her family and job!!

Sorry, but I think you have to be a sick skank to be an OW. Do not get me started on OW.

Sabot, I think you are on a decent course. Your husband is with you. He's speaking to you. He's at least attempting no contact.

I have a WH who does not communicate, hurts my feelings constantly and still thinks he is universally loved by all. Just can't understand why I wouldn't want to attend a family reunion with him. Obviously to him, I have a problem. I told him that DD and I were going to see his parents tomorrow. He wants to know when. Hello compartmentalization.

We just finished signing and sealing our tax forms. What an ordeal. Our big fight was over whose account the payment checks would be written from. For him, a big fight is a few tersely worded emails. The man is just going to have to talk about finances someday. We compromised but what can you say?

enjoy your weekend!

Read the info. I posted about PLAN A. You will not be threatening him. You will be negotiating with him about how he plans NC.

You see. With the E-Mail from her, he starts withdrawal all over again. This is not about her, Sabot. Don't go there. It is your WH that has to put a stop to this and he can when he is ready and wants to. That may be the value of PLAN B. He has to feel the pain of this. He may have to know what it's like to be without you. The OW cannot continue with this if she has absolutely no way to contact him. Don't you see?

He has to get serious with this right away. I would say enough is enough. A NC letter tonight. Tell him that you know about the E-Mail. Tell him that you need for the means of contact to cease. Tell him that. Tell him that you will no longer put up with this.

Have your PLAN B letter and PLANs ready. No LBing.....

I'll check back with you this evening. I'm leaving work now.

"FEEL THE FEAR AND DO IT ANYWAY"

Just got a phone call from WH and he told me that he got an email from OW, said he forwarded it to our home email so I could read it. I asked him if he responded and he said No! I thanked him for being honest and telling me and that that was a big step towards trust.Told him I was not mad at all,felt important that he shared the truth with me. I then asked him if he was going to block her email and he said Yes, just didnt have time yet. He also stated that he was half expecting a phone call from her and he was going to tell her under no uncertain terms was I to ever receive any more emails from her or her buddies and if I did he would hold her personally responsible. I thanked him for the thought but that he needed to realize that HE is the one that can stop it all! He said, your right, your always right!
I just want to forward it back from our home email and tell her that MY husband is fine, I take care of him so back the .... off!!! Wonder how she would like to see that WH sent it for me to read!!! I know, I wont, just had a blonde moment there!!! Felt sooo good tho!!

I know how you feel about wanting her to know. However, I'm glad that you realized that would be a mistake! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

How is she able to call him? Does he mean at work?

He still needs to do the NC Letter that you can read and you mail together!

Don't let him fool you. He's still in the fog. Withdrawal begins again with each contact. A large part of him wants to continue the A. Remembering this helps prevent false recoveries, Sabot. I say this because I've been through it too with my FWH too many times.

Hi Mimi, yes...she calls him at work or he calls her. We did manage to have a good weekend but it just kills me that he is thinking he would rather be with her...yet his actions do not show this! Its so mind boggling for me. She sent him another email yest. seems strange all of the sudden..she is wishing "us" the best???? What do you make of this?
OW: My daughters husband just called me, it seems my daughter is having an affair! Talk about my sins coming back to haunt me! Of course I never had an affair while I was married, but that doesnt matter because I knew you were! I hope all is great for you and you and sabot are back on track! Good luck and much happiness to you both!

Makes me wonder what he has said to her? I am still reading your long thread...and still dont know what I am supposed to be doing for WH when I see signs of withdrawal??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Sabot:

All contact with her has to cease completely!!

Everytime she sends an E-Mail and he reads it, withdrawal starts all over again!

Do you understand, Sabot?

There is a simple answer to your question regarding the OW's motives. She is trying to use every trick in the book to destroy your marriage. Everytime she is able to contact him, she wins a battle.

Do you understand this, Sabot? I'm not sure that you do....

The content of what she says does not matter. The problem is that she is able to contact him. Being addicted to her, it allows him to get a taste of the drug. She is a DRUG DEALER maintaining his hign!!

OH Mimi, Yes, Yes, Yes, I do understand!! And I have been negotiating NC forever!!! I cannot MAKE him do this however!! I asked him after our talk last week, if he was going to BLOCK her emails?? He responded YES! How do I keep Kicking a dead horse??? And again, talked about the NC letter...I can only request it,,do I keep after him until he gets pissed off and I am blue in the face or what??? He can do these things just like he has so many times in the past only to #1 Unblock her!! #2 Send her the NC letter and then call her himself!!!!!!! Seems I am beating my head against a brick wall! Help!! I hate to have to keep bringing this up over and over with him, especially when it seems we are getting close and bonding! It puts such a strain on what seems like progress to me.

You said:



So he is now outright lying to you-which is no different than any other WH. However, he is lying...

You said:






This is going to sound hurtful. However, I will say it to you like it was said to me. You are not really bonding with your H, Sabot. You are not making progress. He is continuing to lie to you. He is cake-eating.

IMHO, it is time for you to do PLAN B. Your PLAN A has been wonderful. You have a good chance of recovering your marriage. However, you have got to get him motivated to withdraw from her. His motivation will be the fear of losing you. I think the only answer for you is to PLAN B so that you will not feel like you are beating your head up against the wall. Your head should soon start hurting because you definitely are beating it up against the wall.

Do you hear me? Why not PLAN B?

I can see he has not responded to her email and knowing him he has prob. been too busy at work to think about blocking her yet, I will remind him tonight again and insist on another NC letter. I positively do see small progress's. I will list them:
1. D-day - WH was so distant, stated too much water under bridge and didnt love me the way he should.
2. Last Nov. stated he had to go see OW, was feeling pressured and needed to find out if she was just fantasy.
Came home stating that he wanted his life back and loved me more. Thought about "me" constantly. Sent NC Letter.Starts initiating SF and doing special things for me.
3.Found out about continued contact in Feb.(by OW thru email) I filed for D. WH total shock and distraught. Agreed to NC if I stop D. Lasted 2 weeks.Unblocked her email.
4. Present - found out day after contact again. 1st time contact was not everyday.I confronted, he talks to me for the first time about his "feelings" going thru withdrawal, states talking to her is like shot of morphine for him. States does "not" want to leave and feels like hes losing his mind. Agrees to NC again and to let me help him and will be honest and tell me when there is resumed contact. But states it is hard for him to tell me because it hurts me.States he is trying "really" hard not to dissapoint me and wants our marriage to work. Starts stating more and more ILY's and being real affectionate.
I can also see by OW emails he has obviously told her of his decision.
In taking in consideration of the above progress, I feel that I need to be little more patient a little while longer, while still continuing to negotiate NC.
I do however realize that I cannot be patient forever which will allow him to cake walk.
My fear of Plan B, as is everyones I am sure, is that after all the effort and progress I do see by his actions, it will undoubtedly have to be a forced Plan B to get him to leave and because of his unstablness at this time will cause us to regress. Does this make sense?

Oh, Sabot. How do I let you know how I am sighing as I read your post.

First of all, you said:



Don't excuse him for this. This is essential for your emotional well-being! I would not accept that he has not given this the highest priority over anything else! He has not because he wants an E-Mail from her. I am speaking from experience with my FWH. He loved getting those E-Mails even though he is trying to convince himself otherwise.

I understand what you are doing now. However, I don't sense his recognition of the seriousness. Even after Friday, he continues to cake-eat.

Why is filing for divorce better than PLAN B?

Thanks for your patience, lol, and I know you are 100% right! It is just so hard because I am a nurturer and caregiver, that is my personality. Everyone knows I am the go-to girl for everyones problems and comfort. And usually good advice, believe it or not! I have always been the giver to my husband and I guess he knows that all too well.
I will go home tonight and state my requirements again, NC letter, and block her emails! I will ask him if these things were done as he agreed! I will insist they be done if not already, immediately! He will think that another NC Letter is not necessary, I think, because her emails express that he told her that. But,I will continue to follow your advice and MB principles, which I have studied and tried to follow to the letter. I do feel that he is still in the fog, however, I also feel he wants out of it,is stating this to me and OW, just isnt strong enough to get thru the withdrawal!
So Mimi, I do this, he complies, and I watch for recurrent contact. Correct?
What if he has another setback in 2 weeks?
Is this when I go to a strict Plan B w/o negotiation?