faithinme,

Maybe it's not 100% accurate that the dad loves his daughter and that she is secure in it. But at least, with her dad NOT remarried, with her dad and his new family NOT shopping for a bigger house for them all to move in to, at least with the stepfamily not firmly ensconced in place, the security the 12 year old has, the constancy, living in the same place, having her own room to retreat into, could be seen as belonging. And the fact that her dad hasn't gone hard-line on her, hasn't called her bluff, to me speaks of love.

The 12 year old girl is like a hermit crab. She has a bedroom, in her dad's house, with a door she can close to be with her own thoughts. She's probably not an outgoing, popular kid at school. If she were, the poster would have mentioned something about the social circle the girl has, about friends coming to the house. [maybe there are friends, but I bet this child is a loner.]

The child has 1/7 of a mother and 6/7 or more of a dad. I do not envy her. I feel badly for the children of dad's girlfriend as well, but they arenet the problem she wrote about. I mean, they live half time with mom,half time with dad. THey are fractionalized as well.

I do believe the FH loves his daughter. He may be reluctant to stand up to his maybe-future wife because he senses she doesn't really have the best interests of the girl at heart. Really, the FH is the shield against abandonment and cruelty for the 12 year old. The FH knows what his daughter would be in for if she carried out her threat and moved "home" with her mother. She would be "in the way." The humiliation would be lifelong.

And at her threshold age, the acting out behaviors we talked about would be likely.

Well I don't know if TM is coming back but I hope she does once she digests all of these responses. And hopefully she brings FH with her to read and they can work together for the good of all.

I understand so much of what Bellvue says because I have 50/50 custody of my 10 yo DD. We are fortunate as both her dad and I are very involved in her life and close with her.

Even still she is having problems and now we are all in counseling working to help her keep her focus on herself regardless of which home she is in and what is going on in the homes.

We can really relate to the outfits in one closet, the shoes in the other. Half the school work at one house and the other half at the others. Unfortunately DD is ultimately responsible for her schoolwork and clothes so this is added to her burdens even though we do our best to minimize them. It's a hard life for a kid.

The absence of this 12 yo's mother is heartbreaking, and all too common.

Even under the best of circumstances these children suffer, but when the parents are not involved or absent it becomes a situation with a broken child.

In my comment about deciding how to parent this 12 year old daughter, I didn't mean to imply that the future wife should determine how the parenting is done. My point was that Dad and future wife, between the two of them, need to get clear about how each thinks this situation needs to be handled.

What I'm looking at is a future wife who believes one thing about parenting this child...and a FH who acts in a manner contrary to FW's values/beliefs. Has FH came right out and told FW that he believes he is the one to make decisions about parenting his daughter...that he believes he is doing it correctly? The problem is between the two of them, not the daughter. If they don't agree on how to handle this situation...and who should handle it..it's not the daughter's problem.

What I'm suggesting is that FH and FW lay it all out on the table between the two of them. Their thoughts, feelings, values, beliefs about how to handle this situation. I'm not saying that the FW makes the final decision. I'm saying that each must be clear with the other about how they feel this should be handled...and then each can choose whether the other's belief/actions is acceptable to them or not. If FW doesn't like FH's stance, she can try and change him (not recommending that!!)..or stay and accept his decisions..or walk away because they're not compatible in this aspect.

FH is forced to stop straddling the fence to try and appease daughter and FW. He ends up "pleasing" no one...satisfying neither his daughter's or FW's needs. He needs to make a choice about his values and priorities. He then needs to make a choice about whether or not he wants to continue a relationship with FW based on those values.

To all who posted:

I do appreciate your insight. Although I may not like to hear how wrong I am (who does most of the time?), there are several things that make sense to me and that I can digest before making any decisions.

A reply to the postings and notes about the efforts being made:

1. First and foremost, the 12YO is not a bad kid in that she does not get into trouble. She makes straight As at school (she gets paid for them, and it is not a bad practice to reward good grades, I feel). She doesn't talk back to her dad (has no reason to since she does usually get what she wants) and only occasionally gets reprimanded for smarting off to me or GM. I do admit she is not outrightly a behavior problem.

2. She is a loner for the most part. At first I just thought she was independent, mature for her age and quiet. I've discovered that it's more than that. She does have "friends", but rarely spends any time with them outside of school. For what reason, I don't know. I have considered offering to host a sleepover party, but haven't acted on it yet.

3. I do try to be a friend to her. We cut up, we joke, we conspire together about Dad's birthday and Christmas gifts. I talk to her about horses (she loves horses and collects figurines and models). I have told her, as has dad, that all I want to be to her is a friend. I'm not trying to replace mom. I even speak nicely of her mother. How she has nice teeth when we (me and 12YO) were talking about my kid's new braces or whatever is appropriate at the time.

4. Regarding discipline, our kids are different and as such, I have my methods and he has his. Being that she's never really been a disciplinary problem, he's not had to find ways to do that. I do go to him if she's being disrespectful/hateful to me or my kids. I have had to call her on it a few times. When my kids (who love being around her) say hi or something that usually warrants a response, and she grunts at them, I have simply reminded her that the kids said "hi" or that a grunt isn't a "hi". I'm sure she doesn't like me telling her "what to do", but that's something dad and I discussed early on. If our kids need correcting and their parent isn't around, make the correction.

4. I have been working on getting dad to communicate with her. He is trying and making a good effort. Of course, it's not moving like I'd like for it to, but I'm one who tries to get to the root of the problem quickly and find a solution before any more damage can be done. He is making an effort. He has been spending more time with her, out in the yard or fishing, whatever. He talks to her about school, stuff she likes to talk about and occasionally throws my name into the mix. When he mentioned the episode we had a week ago, she clams up. That's when I'd wish he'd prod just a little to get her feelings on it, but he doesn't. Maybe he will. I'm a big advocate of communication and would love for them to talk about personal, important things, even if I weren't going to be sticking around. She needs that and he needs to know his kid. The reasons why my kids are looking forward to the wedding and are accepting of my FH is because he's good to them, they know he's good to me and we've talked about it...as much as they want to talk and sometimes just to make sure they are feeling good about it. If their minds change, I'd want to know what's going on with them. Not to mention, I had my 9YO go to counseling that was offered at her school for divorce. It really helped. She's, in turn, been able to "counsel" the 5YO to help her along if it was needed.

5. I've offered the idea of counseling several times. I think it'd be good for me and him as well as for him and his kid. Until they get their issues under foot, I am not prepared for all three of us to be in couseling together...that can come later, if necessary. Neither of them are communicators. It's the nature of their personalities and that may be a large reason she doesn't talk to him. I don't expect them to start talking incessantly just because I do, but I'm slowly convincing my FH that talking is theraputic and helps solve problems. He is a very stressed-at-work person and he's learned that I talk to him about work to help alleviate some of that stress. I can't solve his work problems, but sometimes while talking, he discovers his own solutions, plus it's nice to get it off your chest. He's learning that.

6. I know it was mentioned that her security and stability is gone since the divorce. I have to wonder though, what's more secure? Since it's known that mom and Dad are definitely not getting back together, then is it more stable and secure to have dad dating a different woman every 6 months or to be with one person who is good to his kids and to him...and possibly marry her?

I'm trying to find ways and reasons for him to talk to her and get her to open up, topics and issues that need to be discussed. He's making an effort and after a while, hopefully it will become natural for them to talk when there's an issue. It will take time and I've offered him that. Unless I see that he's stopped making the effort or has just decided he doesn't care enough, I'll be there. I really don't want to affect their relationship negatively. If anything I'd like to know I helped make a good difference between them. I want her to understand that dad won't be judgmental or mad if she's got an issue or a concern. He has to make her know that and I ask him to tell her at the end of every meaningful conversation they have.

She came outside over the weekend to shoot basketball with us, unprompted. I had considered asking her to come out, but she had her PJs on. We thought it was a good sign that she took it upon herself to be with us. I made comments about how she was better than me at shooting or we laughed at her dad chasing the ball together. I tried not to make it too sappy, but in effect let her know I wasn't trying to be a threat to her.

Thanks for all the advice and if you think of anything else, let it fly. I'm a big girl and even if I get my fellings hurt, as one poster said, it's probably something I need to hear. I'd much rather be faced with the truth than to only be aggreed with. Many thanks to you all.

TM, I am glad you decided to come back and glad we gave you some food for thought. It sounds like things are a bit calmer and maybe you are not quite as angry at this little girl. The following does worry me though IMHO the best thing for this child would be for her father not to date at all until she is off to college. After all the loss and trauma this child has suffered to force her to merge with another family and share her father's attention with 2 more children would be hurtful. Please request that dad and daughter see a counselor together and you gracefully back out of the picture. All God's blessings to you.

Faithful Follower :

I am thinking more clearly today than I was last week. Thanks for noticing...

Regarding your reply, and to be completely honest and forthcoming, let me clarify. FH is NOT going to be alone and although I know that is HIS decision, knowing that he will want to have someone...an adult...in his life, yes, I'd like to be the one.

He does NOT spend much time with my kids, especially when it's time that the 12YO wants with him. They don't demand it. If they need anything, I'm usually the one to give it to them. I don't leave them with him. If they are there, I am there. He is always, for a lack of better terms, at the 12YO's beck and call. In other words, if she needs him, he responds. He does that if it's just me there, he does that if my kids are there with me. My 5YO likes to hug on him sometimes, she's a loving child and the one of my two kids that the 12YO likes best. But as far as occupying his every waking moment, it's not a factor. I know that to a 12YO, any time spent with someone other than her can make her jealous or feeling left out. I try to minimize the time I need with him until she's gone to bed and I occupy my kids or they play with her while we are there. That time has been reduced as well.

I am trying here. I will not back out completely. I can fade into the background, which is what I've been trying to do for the last couple of months by not coming by so much, suggesting he spend more one on one time with her, etc. I am not prepared to give up on this relationship. He feels, and I may concur to a degree, that taking me and the kids almost completely out of the picture would not do her any good because he wants to keep dating and get married. If we disappear, only to reappear after a wedding (considering she's accepted the idea or whatever), it would be another shock to her. We've backed off, but not backed out.

Even though I hurt at the idea of having to wait, I have thought that if this man is worth being with, he's worth waiting for. (And maybe by then he'll know how to talk about stuff...ha ha). We'll have the rest of our lives after she's moved off to college or once she's old enough to drive, get out with friends when she wants, etc. Breakthrough??? As much as I'd like to start this new life with him, I can afford to make things easier on him and her by biding my time. If she comes to accept the idea of us being married, then we can finish our plans. If not, we'll have to wait til she's gone.

I would LOVE LOVE LOVE for the two of them to go to counseling. I suggested the idea AGAIN today and he shrugs it off. They are both hard-headed and strong-willed. I don't mind it usually, it's one of the things that attracted me to him. But when I am trying to help, it does get frustrating. At least he didn't shrug off my suggestion that he talk to her. He is doing good with that...so far. I can't back off or he'll quit.

Thanks for the advice.

This is awesome and quite a turn around. You should be proud of the conclusions you have come to. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yes, waiting until the right time is much better than forcing this new life on this child. Once your FH becomes your H it will be his responsibility as the SFather to your kids to spend time with them. Going slow until his DD accepts the relationship is ideal.

Sending MB hugs your way. {{TM}}

tmcamp,

I was just checking in on your thread. How are things going? Also, wanted to say I am impressed with your final point of view, it seems you read everyone's posts and gave them some thought. I think we are seeing some real maturing and growth in your life!

Good luck.