My first post....hello every one

Looking for some adivce..

I've read a little on this forum so far and I guess my situation is comparible to most.

So here goes...

I'm the H. We've been married for 4 1/2 years, we have a 3 yr old child. After the first 6 mons to a year it started going down hill with a lot of drama and small physical confilcts (pushing, throwing things etc.).
We tried some counseling the first year but got no where (counselor was too far and other things got in the way). We have always worked together with the child and have been intimate fairly often but never the less
there has been a lot of fighting before and after the counseling. I say.. I just react to her aggression. Anyway....long story short, she has become less and less intimate with me. The last time we had a great sexual encounter was 8/04, we've had
sex since then but it seems like she was doing it for the sake of doing it, she actually pretty much said that. I'm not lame or minute man in the sack she has always said that was a strong point of mine. However as of right now,
we haven't had sex for a few months and she doesn't want to. At first I thought she was just giving a break. Then I got suspicious of her constant claims that she was leaving me and she doesn't want me etc.. I was even thinking
maybe those claims were a lot talk.

(fastforwarding)......

Now about a month ago, after a fight she called some OM on her cell phone and locked herself in the room. I could hear her talking in a flirtatious manner; I heard her say "you're indecisive like me, if we went out we couldn't decide where to go".
Then she asked him about his last girlfreind, and said she had a boy freind and explained why she broke up with him ( I believe that was all lies). She has consistently said she doesn't want to be with me and wants to sleep in separate rooms etc.. I didn't
mention anything about the phone call at that point. I thought she was just getting back at me, but then I started spying on her and got her cell phone and looked at the recent calls. She actually had this guys name programed into her phone.


(Things got worse)........

One day I walked in our office while she was on the computer and she had an address on a piece of paper and she clicked away the screen as soon as I came in, then she went back to it saying she was "wondering how to get there" (b/c she knew I saw).
When I asked her what was at that address she got very defensive asking me to mind my business. Now every night I'm sleeping in another room and I could hear her on her cell phone talking to some OM. So I continued spying on her and found out she was consistently
talking to this OM. Eventually I confronted her asking her who OM on the cell phone was. She said he was just a freind. I asked her to tell me if she was seeing somebody or interested in somebody.....she says she's not seeing anybody but anyway its "none of my business" inferring she
doesn't want me anyway.

Then I thought let me spy some more. I got phone records online and did not see the OM's number for any of the last six months worth of records. This told me that this thing with OM is recently started. However....... I saw another number that I had seen on her phone before which
she had been calling since late August 04. This told me that she has been flirting or cheating (not sure) since then. Most of these calls are late hours of the night especially on the weekend. I found out that OM 1 whom I heard her talking to lived at the address she was looking up.

I'm guessing......now she is starting to make up her mind that she wants to have something new instead of trying to work things out with me.

(the big blow up)

One evening end of 3/05 I was going to confront her about the other number. It was late night and she was watching a show, so I came back when it was over. At this point she was on her cell phone. I started to say something and she started closing the room door in my face.
I got really upset ....talking louder so whomever was on the phone could hear me (I had a suspicion the OM(s) didn't know she was married). I asked her about the phone number she'd been calling since August. At first she grinned then She got mad hung up the phone and threw it down. Then she left
the room (but she didn't take the phone). I picked it up and checked the call....

IT WAS THE SAME CALL THAT I WAS GOING TO CONFRONT HER ABOUT!!!!......

She realized that she left the phone and I might check it and came back to get the phone I confronted her about it being the same number. She wanted her phone but....I WAS SOOOOOO PISSSSSED!!! I would not give her the phone back which lead to her trying to take it...me BREAKING it and
leaving the house PISSSSSED!!!.(b/c she had been deceiving me for months talking to some OM) And was still talking to him with me in the house. I was so upset I called both OM's and told them not to call my W. Left a voice mail for the recent OM and spoke with the original OM.

I returned the next morning and advised her that I called them.....she blew it off.

(brings me to the problems up to the present)

(First of all......My W dances an ethnic dance on fridays and its a cabaret / nightclub enviornment so it doesn't start until late and ends easily 3 or 4am. Where am I during her dances? (you guessed it) home with the kid. She's been doing it for atleast 4 to 5mons. She is a very good dancer and I fully support her.)
So I feel that these weekend dance outings where there are plenty of men to meet are a problem especially if our relationship is having problems.)

So that evening after I returned home, she was getting ready to go dance. I advised her again in conversation that I called the OM(s). I guess it went over her head the first time because, She got...REALLY PISSSSSSSED. I had to leave the house again this time with the child b/c of fear she would get violent.

It actually seems that b4 I mentioned calling them again, she was willing to apologize and work things out (that's what she said). But now she blames me for possibly ruining her reputation at the club and not letting her handle it.

At this point....to prevent any new drama, I have taken my clothes and moved in with family. I'm at home everyday but I just don't sleep there except once this week b/c she was out very late looking at costumes ( I'm sure that's what she was doing, I talked to her quite a bit that night).

(My take on this situation)........

My wife won't touch me and won't let me touch her....although she treats me a lot like a good freind and uses her nick name for me and I use mine for her. To this day she denies any sexual encounters but when I asked her if she kissed someone she said "you don't want to know that" I tried getting
a counselor but ended up going alone. Since the big blow up where I called the OM(s), I don't "beleive" she has had much contact
with them mostly b/c I still spy and check the records so, I can see the time talked (even though they could hang up and talk from another line). I have also checked the recent calls on her cell phone and I know she is...sTILL...calling the OM(s).

As a part of my Plan A, I've only treated her kindly mildly hinting to... I think she's still talking to them. She said she wanted to move out before the big blow up and then got approved for an apartment. She has recently said she wanted to change her cell phone number. So basically I believe she is a cake eater
at this point going through withdrawal.

Sometimes I feel like just getting a lawyer and letting it go. My plan right now is to be kind, using plan A with an ultimatum of counseling (b/c I don't want to continue without that, I just think she has too many issues.) She is supposed to move out at the end of the month 4/05 so if she has not given in to plan A
by that time then one of us will initiate plan B with a legal separtion.

WHEW!!!!....

Is she cheating??? Or was she???

Anybody have any advice on this situation please!!!!............

C3,

I only have a second at this time; but wanted to bump your post up for others to see.

My first thought is I wish you hadn't moved out. It's harder to Plan A when you're not in the house full time. Maybe you should consider moving back in; but maybe or maybe not sleep in the same bed with her.

Have you read Surviving An Affair? If not, it's a great place to start.

In the meantime, keep posting and reading here. Be sure you've read the basic concepts section of this site.

I'll be back when I can! Blessings, CSue

Hey thanks for your response........

I thought about that too, I probably shouldn't have moved out. I was just trying to keep my child from being around anymore fights. Also it's difficult for me to be there at night without 1) spying on her and 2) listening to her possibly talking to OM.. If I moved back in....so far she wouldn't let me sleep in the same bed with her anyway. Also I don't feel like I've moved out completely b/c its still my address and I'm there everyday,....hey I'm in the house right now as I right this. But I will definitely consider moving back in before she is scheduled to leave. I was hoping to find another counselor and setup an appointment first.

A little more info. I'm 30 she's 29. She finished colledge I finished a trade / technical school. My parents and grand parents maternal side are married for 25+ years. Her family is and has been disfunctional. Her parents did not raise her together, hardly saw her father. Mother has 5 kids including her 3 different fathers and divorced at least 4 times and is single now. Her father has her and her sister with her mom. He has two more by a different marriage. Her sister has admitted to me, my W has admitted it subtlely that their mother was abusive. Hence her anger towards me wich sometimes I can't take and lash back.

Every time I bring up the issue of cheating she turns it back on me saying I don't want to deal with the problems I have which she doesn't like. She doesn't like that I've gotten a little out of shape. (I've started back with good progress in two weeks, she notices the difference). Also she thinks I'm bad with finances..(which is funny b/c she spends the money and hadn't really brought any significant income since the baby was born and now she has started a new job........and claims she is leaving me....can anyone be crueler?)

I believe her dance nights around a lot of single people has made her more open to leaving the marriage instead of working it out. And now I believe she's caught between the adiction of having new men in her life and saving her family.

Let me give you an idea of the stubborn defenses I'm dealing with. We went out last night, not as a couple but as "freinds" (that's what she wanted to tell people). Everything was cool....I was here until she went to work. I called her at work today and said "Hey Beautiful" she didn't like that.

Frankly I'm getting a little tired of all the rejection even to these little things. I'm begining to lean toward a lawyer.

One time I said "if you don't want me then let's get a legal separation ASAP.....I could see she was so hesitant, and later that evening she said "its not that I don't want you"....she wouldn't elaborate.

I think I will look into moving back in......

thanks again.....

oh lordy calado...

time for you to do major damage repair...

FIRST
you my friend must move back in TODAY!!
for your daughters sake....

you must step up to the plate and become the one person in your daughters life that is rational and stable..

your moving out puts you at great risk for losing your duaghter to a confused woman who will see NO problem with moving men in and out of your daughters life and create great pain and chaos in the childs life...

So today you move back home and become the one constant in your childs life....

you must begin to address and work on the marriage issue on several different plains...

the first plain
is being the DAD your daughter deserves no matter the insanity of the mother...

so you move home
inspite of where you have to sleep..
and on Monday you seek legal counsel without your wife's permission and knowledge about what rights you have and pursueing that IF things come to a seperation/divorce you line your ducks up for
primary custody...cause moms that are MARRIED and want boyfriends as well...are not good role models for little girls

and you seek legal counsel about your rights to NOT have your child exposed to STRANGE men..

dads ARE not replacable like shoes
dads ARE greatly important in children's lives..
and this is no time to go belly up.......

the other plain is working on your marriage...

you need to stop your partipation in all conlflice that resort in a pattern of yelling and or acting out...

you should seek out counseling if it is you who shows poor control and you should seek counseling if it is her that shows poor control so that you learn immediate responses that remove you from the outbursts each and every time...

conflict resolution is a necessary marriage tool..but when the conflicts are only destructive they resolve nothing and only stop all communication AND deflect from the real issues....

you must do this..
for your daughter
for your wife
for you
and for your marriage...
seriously consider seeking counsel on this for it will help you both with the marriage and with protecting your child.

it would be helpful if you could indentify issues that your wife "perceives" as the reasons/justification of her affairs....

this is not to say now or ever ever that you are the cause of her affairs...BUT the more you address and eliminate her 'rational' the less she is able to "blame" you...and the sooner she has to start looking at her own destructive and hurtful choices and actions....

you need to read all about plan a till you understand it..

I think you need to read bob pures and mortarman and frankd's posts who are men in/past similiar situations where they had to work on several levels..

one protecting the children from women who seflishly choose chaos...
and working on the marriage...

you become..
calm
rational
and constant in the face of a storm....

your daughter needs one rational grownup....

and you are the chosen one....

move home today ..
claim your stake as your daughters DAD
and move from there....

plan a is all about thinking before you make a move
plan a is all about thinking before you open your mouth
plan a is all about NOT reacting the way your emotions drive you to react

ARK

Ditto Ark. And THEN when you have done all of this for a limited amount of time...if her behavior continues, let HER move out.

Is she able to support herself?

Susan

Whoa.....

Ark and Susan.....

First of all, thanks for all your wisdom and laying it out so plainly what I'm up against.

I never really thought about my W behavior, ie. not being affectionate with me and seeking other men, affecting my daughter, in addition to her anger management issues.

Just this past weekend my W went out for her dance performance again and she stayed out until 7:30am saturday morning. I felt like c'mon if she says she was not with OM, she will be insulting my intelligence. She advised she was with OM and freinds. She adivsed they all left the club and went to a freinds house just to relax and talk. She....SWEARS...all they did was talk. She adamantly contiues her conviction of "she has not had sex with OM". She says she has "never" been to OM's house. However, there's obviously something about him she likes, (or she's just lying) otherwise why would OM be able to keep her away from home all night long. I've consistently tried to get her to come out with the truth, and she has consistenly said she "can't admit to what has not happened".

I explained to her that morning........ , that I felt very disrespected. Not only because she is interested in someone else but because she continues to hide it and not be straight forward about the situation. Also I'm mostly disrespected because she did not try counseling or atleast get a legal separation before opening up for a new or potential new relationship.

She apologized......advising the only reason she did that was because "she felt so aleinated in what she saw and sees is a dead relationship".

(another fight)

Yesterday evening 4/16 she wanted to go out again...... I did not show self control. I was supposed to go out myself (she knew this). Because she wanted to go out also she asked if I could call a memeber of my family to babysit, (her family is not near us and there aren't as many of them in the area). I went out monday and tuesday and was back home by 10pm. She went out wednesday-friday and came back always after midnight. I felt like if she went out on saturday night also, when I was supposed to go out, she would just be using me and I was tired of feeling used and tired of it being my responsibility to find a babysitter. So......I told her I would not call and I would not give her any phone numbers, she needed to find a babysitter herself if she wanted to go out, advising that this was how it would be once we were separated / divorced. She got upset throwing some water at me. Then a lot of verbal abuse followed. I felt upset with myself, thinking I should have helped her, just to save face of another fight in front of the kid.

(specific complaints)

She has also complained specifically, about me........1)where she can't stand me being 5 min late, especially on a consistant basis, 2)she does like that I procrastinate sometimes, 3)she doesn't like that I've gotten out of shape a little.....(I do martial arts, very acrobatic martial arts, I'm 5'9" muscular build and weighed about 215lbs, now I'm at 200lbs, in about 3 weeks. When I met her she was over weight and I weighed about 190-195. 4) She says.." she does not want to be married". She does not want the joint financial liability of marriage. (my credit is better than hers, she owes thousands of dollars for school, I do not owe anything and I make the same amount of money she gets at her new job).

I will contact a lawyer....again. I did that a while ago, and the lawyer said that I needed to document her outbursts and abuse, writing down.. what happened, the date, time and place. This is the only way I could prove her instability and gain custody. Unfortunately I might have written down 2 incidents of many since then.

I'm moving back in today.......

I hope this doesn't cause more drama for my daughter. A lawyer told me before that if you leave when there is a lot of drama its not abandonement.

She's always been very adamant about leaving me so, I will be just freinds in plan A, until she leaves....and I will still seek counseling.

Thanks again.

OK, FWIW your W is very much having an A... If not (and I have a serious doubt that she is not having sex w/ him) a PA, then at the very least an EA. WTH do you think she stays out to all hours w/ the OM?!

Come on dude, you are not that naive, are you??!! Your W has withdrawn from your M becasue she has already found a "replacemnt". Follow the advice set forward here, but do not go blindly into thinking that she is just a little "po'd " or whatever.

Also, expect that the next few weeks to see a whole other a side of this woman you love, a side that may seem very alien to you. She will be spewing all kinds of garbage...learn to filter, filter, filter!

Good luck!

Hey everyone,

Sorry that I have not been able to respond for a minute. But here's an update.

There have not been any LB's since the last LB.

I'm pretty sure my wife is still talking to OM, however I don't have any concrete proof. I know she has not seen him, but that might change when she goes to dance this weekend.

She's been acting very nice to me, but she is very adamant about moving out and about not wanting a relationship with me. She says "I love you but I'm not in love with you".

I have read a little more about A's and the basic concepts etc., and a few more posts suggested to me.

So far...

1)I am still trying to get an appointment with a counselor who is supposed to be very good.....(found out they had my number wrong for the counselor to call me).

2)I have an appointment with a lawyer to get the details on the full extent of my rights.


A few questions.....(am I doing anything wrong?)

My wife is trying to find an apartment and she practically involves me, always asking me what I think. And I even went with her to look at a few. Is there a problem with this?

We also talk about selling the house and how each of us might use our share of the money, since housing has sky rocketed in our area and buying another one might not be financially possible for either of us. Is there a problem with this?

She has always stated that she wants a D even if we got counseling or were having a relationship under the same roof. (I don't understand her logic on why its better not to be M'd, I believe it has a lot to do with financial independence) Is she crazy? Is what she wants possible or has it ever been done. I advised her that she didn't understand committment and when your not M, the first major problem that arises will send you running. (and lord knows we've had a lot).

She consistently talks to her freinds from dance who are in the band etc. and tells me all the gossip (which she always did) and I tell her about what's happeing in my martial arts world.

Most importantly she wants to get a quick divorce. She has seen websites online and wants it done quickly and does not want it long and drawn out. I should probably have a problem with this....so can somebody give me some ammunition to fire at her as to why that might be a bad idea.

Can you do plan A, after the spouse has moved out? Or is it better to go to plan B?

I've pretty much calmed my self down not letting her drag me into any LB's. I have let her know again how hurt I am and I don't agree with how she has gone about our break up. However I'm pretty much accepting it looking at the brighter side of being able to work on myself by myself.

Ideally for me it would be, for us to separate meaning not live under the same roof but not get a D, so the child still sees that both parents are in her life just as before.

My wife gives mixed signals, as if that's what she wants too but not under the roof of a legal M.

I realy need somebody to give us both psychological evaluations related to the M, b/c I'm not sure what's going on here.

She's calling me right now, asking me what I think, about another appt.. Also talking to me about her day at work.

Thanks again