Okay, we're on for our Monday appointment. It took some convincing -- and she still isn't willing to commit to anything beyond the next appointment -- but the fight goes on.

She's very upset at how optimistic I have been and thinks I am ignoring our problems and/or "putting on a show" when I'm around her. But I tried to explain to her that optimistic is truly how I feel, and also that I am optimistic DESPITE all of our problems.

If she ever starts thinking positive, I have no doubt we will get through this.

Squiggle

Squig - when your questionaire session broke down over your past issues - reopening her old wounds - what kind of issues were these?

Real, tough issues, or trivial ones - or somewhere in between??

If these were issues typical of marriages needing more care and feeding, it could be that she turned off because she HAD to. - because she saw where the conversation was going > a solution that did not include OM. - a realization that she didn't have a good reason to NOT work on the marriage and thus, she needed to re-examine her situation (the affair). Because she's not ready to do this yet, she HAD to stop the process.

Does it fit?

WAT

WAT - No, I have to say that they were not trivial -- they were tough ones. They are not things that have come up for a long time (over a year), but I now realize that they are issues that still bother and hurt her.

We had another session with SH today. Still trying to figure out if any progress was made. I get the impression my wife didn't like how it went.

Squiggle

I had a long conversation with WW today. It started out as me going to her apartment to watch a movie, but ended up with R talk for a couple of hours.

She doesn't like the way MC with SH has gone and sounds like she doesn't want to talk with him anymore -- her main complaint is that he "repeats himself over and over" and seems like he's "giving cookie cutter answers." I told her I liked his theories and would like to stick with him a little longer, but that if she really didn't want to talk with him anymore, then we could go to someone else. She then started in with the "I don't know if I want to go to any more MC" talk.

Since we talked so much, I thought I may as well ask some high impact questions.

1) What does OM do for you that makes you unwilling to stop seeing him.

WW - He is always nice to me, makes me feel like his top priority, always invites me out -- even on "boys night out", and he respects my feelings.

2) You once said that you knew MC would require you to stop seeing OM. Why did you change your mind and why are you still seeing him?

WW - I did try to break up with him, and he told me if that is what I'd like, he "would support my decision." But I haven't been able to stop seeing him. I don't have enough good feelings about us to stop yet and I like talking to him. I don't see him as often as before -- I'm trying to wean myself off of him.

3) Doesn't it bother you that we may get a divorce when we never had a chance to work on our M without OM in the picture.

WW - No. I already know my feelings about our relationship, and I am not willing to give up OM until I see hope for our marriage.

I also told her that I was sad, because it didn't seem like our marriage has been her top priority for several months. She did not have a response to this, other than to say that she felt that way about me in the past.

Another tidbit -- we were at her apartment, and prior to our conversation I found a 2nd toothbrush in her bathroom drawer. Not a surprise, and I didn't let her know I saw it, but it definitely got me upset.

The one good thing was that even the couple times she got frustrated and/or angry with me, I stayed calm and told her I was just trying to understand what was going on. This seemed to diffuse some of her reaction, and we at least continued a levelheaded conversation.

So what do you think? I've been doing such a good Plan A for the past couple weeks, but after seeing the toothbrush, and when she was willing to talk about our R, I couldn't help myself but to ask the difficult questions.

Did I mess up here? It almost sounds to me like she is on her way out of the M. I'm just not sure what else I can do right now.

Squiggle

Beam her up!

Typical WS conundrum: I can't let go of OP to see if I can restore things with my spouse until I can let go of OP.

They can't get there from here. They need something to knock them off top dead center (of the fence).

Enter Plan B - or some other upset that forces a fall to one side or the other.

I suggest you have a one-on-one session with Steve and describe what you just described here. Be willing to explore Plan B.

WAT

WAT,

I hate to correct you, but she has already been beamed up. He is dealing with a hologram from the Mother Ship. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> That is why there is nothing inside the woman.

Squiggle, WAT is right, plan B is in your future. Start to prepare.

God Bless,

JL

Squiggle, you mentioned that in your response to WAT that problems came up that haven't been discussed in a long time; a year. I assure you a long time is not a year. I quit gambling over 13 years ago and am still very sensitive to W's complaints even today. So please be sensitive to this point. What you think may be buried may actually have been smoldering for well over a year.

Congratulations on getting her to talk to Steve. I had about 8 sessions over a year ago and came away extremely impressed with him. Good luck.

WOE

Still trying to figure out what to do. I am again considering filing for D and/or Plan B to take some action. I just seemed to be doing so well with Plan A until all the R talks the past couple days. WW seems to really be getting frustrated talking about our problems.

Since I'll be away for a week, should I suggest to her that we come to some sort of MC decision by the time I come back? Or will that just be seen as a deadline?

Squiggle

Slow down.

Much of the time the best action for a BS to take is no action. This is also know as patience.

If you want a divorce, by all means file for one. You have a good reason for a divorce.

But if you don't want a divorce, don't file for one just to "take some action." Pretty stooooopid, huh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I repeat my recommendation to talk to Steve about Plan B. But a warning: he went along with my decision to continue a very protacted Plan A - a year's worth. In hindsight, I think this was a mistake, although the final outcome may not have changed. Steve seems to favor longer rather than shorter Plan A's as opposed to his Dad. My observation is that BSs who eventually go to Plan B usually regret not doing it sooner.

WAT

It's been a while, so here's an update...

Since I last posted, my wife and I saw each other every day up until my trip (she ended up deciding not to go with me). On the day before I left, she called me in the middle of the day and said that she thought she was starting to "feel better about us" -- she specifically said that part of the reason was that we had been talking about the issues that had bothered her, and she could see that I was willing to work on things, rather than just getting mad at her for bringing them up.

Later that afternoon, she even e-mailed me a question on how many vacation days I had left before moving in July. At seeing her question, I was excited and confused at the same time (I know, a recurring feeling for me). I e-mailed her back the response that afternoon, and then asked her later that night why she had asked and she replied that "she was just wondering."

She bought me a tour book and an English-Spanish phrase book, and also gave it to me that night (the night before I left). Even though we only spent a couple of hours together, it was definitely quality time. I told her that I was going to miss her and she said she'd miss me, too. It was not an easy "goodbye", but we tried not to make it linger too much, either.

The next day, she called me before I went to the airport to wish me a safe trip. Then, I left for Europe.

While in Spain, my wife was watching our puppy, so she stayed at our house a couple of the nights. It really did make me happy to know she would be home for a little while, even though I could not be there with her.

She and I spoke on the phone almost every day -- once a day. I called her most of the time, but she also called me a couple times. Things seemed pretty good on the phone overall, but there was one night that we got into some R talk that stressed us both out. She had told me that she had been "trying to be by herself" over the past week, and that she was "trying to start fights with OM" -- making it sound like she wanted to break up with him. However, I was of course thinking in my head that if she really wanted to break up with him, it would be done. It only takes one person to break things off -- OM doesn't need to have a say in it.

I again brought up that I needed her to make our M the top priority, and I asked her why she seems to be afraid of letting our M recover. It probably wasn't the best way to phrase the questions, because it made her angry at me and it was hard on both of us. Anyway, after that conversation, we took a day off from talking, and then resumed nice, friendly phone calls the rest of the trip.