Yup….I’m in the last leg and I’d like to end this race at the next water station thanyouverymuch. This has been going on for 18 Mos. now and I’d like to exert a modicum of control over my life and file tomorrow.

I won’t.

I no longer grieve the loss of this marriage; I accept my new reality and actually would like to take it for a test drive. I’m feeling very attracted to women I meet. I want to dance with them, smell their hair, kiss their necks, and…..well, you know.

I feel guilty for theses feelings, for the thoughts of betraying my children’s mother in spite of her “home-wrecking tour of 2003 – 2005”. I wish I was grieving right now, but I’m not.

Maybe It’s me who’s re-writing history now, but I see her in a different light. One where this affair is not an aberration of character, but an amplification of what already was there: a self-serving sense of entitlement with no room for introspection or self criticism. She never did enjoy being challenged and surrounded herself with sycophants. She now has a new set of friends in OM’s city that, of course, accept her choices.

But…

I married her. I made a vow to God. I have remained true and willing to make it work in spite of the pain, the disgust, the humiliation and anger.

This will not go on forever. She could have filed months ago. In some ways it would be a fitting end for her to deliver the coup de grace so I can say to myself, my children and friends that I did everything possible to the very end to give this family a chance.

Like I said though, the sliver of control, the ability to make the decision and act on it…for me...will be liberating. I am ready…almost.

I will speak to my minister and I will wait until my long ago pre determined date…about a month from now. Then I will file. No drama, not “I’m going to file so what are you going to do?!” stuff, just a message to my lawyer.

It’s been 9 mos. of plan B with a WW that lives in her own house 200 meters away, with our children 50% of the time. In that 9 mos. I could condense our conversations, of any kind, to less than 5 minutes. I will continue this trend during the D. All is already split with a separation agreement. There needs to be no negotiations. Our parenting agreement gives me the children every weekend, this will remain post D. Have your freedom woman, take a big bite.

Binder,

You are an inspiration. Because of you and the other inspirations on this board, hope and faith is renewed. Faith that there really are good men, good fathers, good people in the world.

Like FamilyMatters, Graycloud, Cymanca (many others too) who have been on this board this past year, who have fought the good fight and stood for what they felt was right and who didn't recover their marriages but remained stealth in their journey through pain and loss. You are all heros, pillars of strength.

It's going to be hard finding men in the "real" world who live up to the calliber of men we have witnessed on this board. But at least us girls now have a guage of which to measure from. Not good for the average joe who wants to date us though. LOL

You are going to be just fine and will find a great love someday.

You should be very proud Binder

Well, if you're doing this, that makes at least two of us.

It's almost d-day + 5 years for me, over three years since divorce, and I'm still "learning" new things about my former relationship and marriage as I look back over the past 25 years. It gets clearer and clearer. A lot of this is being influenced by my new relationship, which offers a stark contrast. "Wow, this is what it's supposed to be like?" is my frequent pause.

Am I re-writing history? Rationalizing my situation? No diferent than a WS?

Maybe, but I don't think so. Because it develops over time and is based on critical, retrospective analysis rather than spur of the moment emotion, I believe I'm being objective. That's my story and I'm sticking to it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

You've fought the good fight and I predict you'll go forward with a clear conscience. Do not underestimate the value of a clear conscience. It's a priceless benefit of losing a good fight that was fought with integrity and for the right reasons.

WAT

Edit - ......and please see my question to you on Jen's thread.

Thanks for the post Weaver, I appreciate the kind words. Of course you only see the side of me I expose here. I am fraught with flaws and a real pain in the [censored] to live with.

I too have observed the women on this forum, if only by proxy, and a depth of character that lacked in my marriage partner. Women that can express the subtle layers of emotion and intimacy that goes beyond a simple "I'm happy" or "I'm not happy". Women that base their decisions on their moral code rather than contort their morality based on their decisions.

To get this far, I've relied a great deal on both yours and WAT's testimonials as to a life with ones child(ren) within a fractured family. I thought I could give them the gift of an intact family, but sadly that does not seem to be the case. I believe I have reached the point whereupon I will be able to articulate to them, when the time comes, the efforts I've extended and the duration of such to justify the next step.

Your careful handling of your present life and limiting exposure of your daughter to your romantic partners also sits well with me. I will use that as a benchmark for my future relationships.

WAT, your unwavering belief in family and the description of the aftermath of permanently ending the marital union has been a motivation to get this far.

I’ve thought about the similarities with my changing view of my wife vs. her new view of me and our life and I think you’ve captured it appropriately. Though all our history is clouded by our present bias, mine has been a careful 18 mos. analysis of what has been 19 years together. Hers…to quote her, was after a terse telephone conversation when she was in Reno where “an explosion” went off in her head and she realized our marriage was beyond repair. Enter the useful idiot.

Your advice regarding a clear conscience rings true too. The investment of what will be 2 years of this when it finally concludes will no doubt have been a wise one. I have earned my way out. She will learn the pitfalls of buying high, cause no doubt she’ll have to sell low.

Binder,

I want to share what is going on right now with DD as your children unfortunately face the same split home life.

To catch you up, I filed a complaint with Friend of the Court that my ex was not following the joint custody agreement regarding communication and joint parental decision making. Well the mediator ordered joint parental counseling.

The psycologist decided that he would focus on my dd, and her grades and weight gain. He feels that her drop in grades is because she is unable to keep her focus on herself. He feels her weight gain is because she stuffs her emotions. He said this is very common in children in split homes.

I feel like a million pounds have been lifted in that we have someone who can see what the problem is and come up with a plan to redirect her focus back to herself.

Just something to stick under your hat Binder, in case your children do not seem to be growing and achieving as well as they could be at some point in the future.

Weaver and Binder...you give me hope for life after spouse.
Last night and this morning was pretty much the fork in the road. I asked my WH to tell me to "let go" so that I could give myself permission with out feeling like I had failed.
He did....then he got angry.

I too have tried to fight the good fight for 7 months, but when one has a partner who is unwilling to actually be a partner then all you are left with is one bewildered person holding a bag of crap and no garbage can to throw it in. Well I have had enough of holding the bag. I told my WH that I was sorry is had come to this, My WH is "perturbed" (his words) with the situation because I can no longer wait for him.

I am very afraid of what the future holds for me and my DD's. I know that I will too find someone and I will look back at 17 years and say "Girlfriend... how could you have loved that, when there are real men out there?" He has made his bed...no he can lie in it....alone or otherwise....I can not dwell on that any more.

Weaver can you tell me more about your decision to keep your new relationship clear from your DD? I would like to ask my WH to keep OW away from the DD's at least for a while. Do you think that is OK to ask for?

Homer,

Yes, this is okay to ask for. However with an alien active in an affair it may not be something he would agree to. If not than you make it part of your separation/temp custody agreement. Pebbles is working on this currently and Octobergirl had it written right into her divorce agreement.

Try discussing it with him in a rational manner where the wellbeing of your girls is stressed the entire convo.

With my ex and I, it was something we agreed on at birth as we split up when I was pregnant. (his affairs) We also agreed at my daughters birth that neither of us would ever lay a hand on her and we both held up our ends there too.

Homer it wasn't easy, as he didn't remarry until this year and I only let one man into her life and she was six then (my ex-fiance) who she was crazy about. If the dates (his affair partner) don't understand and even agree with this philosophy than they are not worthy anyway. No potential romantic partner with any real sense wants to be involved in someone elses kids life unless a serious commitment for the future as been made. It is just a matter of putting your kids first as they have been through enough loss of security. They need to know without any doubt who their parents are and that this will NEVER change. And that strangers will not invade their home and life.

You can only talk to him and hope for rationality and unselfishness on his part. If not, then the legal route is available.

Binder...

There's not much I can say that hasn't been said by others.

There's also not much that you describe in your first post that I haven't felt. Exactly.

I certainly can understand about the changing view of your WW. I, too find this. But I don't feel that it's rewriting history. It's more like finally seeing things as they are, and not as we imagined them to be.

You'll know when it feels right for you. And it will. And when it's done, you won't have doubts. And when you get to the other side, you'll be able to look in the mirror, and know you tried.

And that's the most you can ask of yourself, isn't it?

However it ends, its always better tomorrow.

Ethan

Thanks for the heads up Weaver. I'll be somewhat proactive about that. I've spoken to the psychologist our agency employs and upon divorce he will be referring me to a child psychologist who will initially meet with both WW and I, and then separately with each of us and the children. According to our psychologist the child psychologist is "magic" with children. I hope to glean some strategies/tools from him.

Ethan, always a pleasure to see you on the boards. The job still fun? Dating? Still running? Inquiring minds want to know.

I agree I can see the reality, but it is my reality. WW has hers. I'm sure she can now see things "clearly" as I do. I doubt the movie playing in her head bears any resemblance to mine. Then again.....years in the future, I'm just as sure she will once again see things "clearly". Too little too late.

I'm ready to move forward Ethan...now. Only waiting for "the date" to arrive. I set that date for myself when I had an earlier and different perspective. I'm no longer sure what perspective is the "truth" so I will abide by my decision made then. I just can't shake my personal commitments. This one is no different.

Binder,

I understand about setting a date and sticking with it. And like you, I had figured out that I was "done" before that day came. But certainly whatever it takes to make sure your mind is clear about all of this is very important. It will may any decision making in the future easier.

As far as me....

Job's still great. I'm getting to travel just a little, but not enough to where it's a distraction or anything. I just got back from Indianapolis, and I'll be going to Denver in July, Miami in August, so I've got some things to look forward to. I'm still running and playing soccer. As far as dating goes. I don't really have any problems meeting people. However, it does seem that I attract a large number of sociopaths, for some unknown reason. Thankfully, my experiences from my failed M, and everything I've learned here makes it pretty easy to pick them out pretty quickly. I'm trying the eHarmony thing right now, and I've been pretty pleased so far. Things are going well!

Take it easy,
Ethan

Binder, I think you've sunk somewhere between 6 months and a year more than I have into this nonsense.

I still grieve the loss of my M, always. You say you aren't grieving any more, but you feel guilty about being attracted to women.

That's interesting. I'm still grieving pretty seriously, but I don't feel even a little guilty about being attracted to other women.


I think our wives are similar that way, don't you? Mine is also thin-skinned, and apparently in need of constant praise. I gave her lots - it came naturally - but I remember how I also went out of my way to praise her, most every day. And that wasn't enough. Coming from me, it lost its edge I guess.

Yep, by making the choices she's made, WW took those weaker qualities and redefined herself by them, to the exclusion of the good ones. Some day, she may regret that choice and want to be the person she was again, but I believe she'll find that she's sort of killed a part of herself. After all, how can one create such pain, but remain convinced that she's a decent person?

Of course, mine lives over 200 meters away. Probably more like 500 meters.

I agree that WW's character has a lot to do with the choice to see an affair through. It's more than addictive behavior. She knew, from the very beginning, that she was hurting people, most of all herself, and you, and the boys. She did it anyway.

Chicks (head shaking) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

GC

I'm not always a great one with words, but I think both you and I are in the same place mentally.
Although you may be a little bit ahead of me.. I'm just about there too, as far as pulling the plug.

It's funny, because I always thought it would be me having to defend against my WW filing and now, I have come to see that in the end, it will probably have to be me that files.

It feels strange, it was her that left, her that wanted a divorce, her that would not come home. And me that has to finish it. I wonder why it works that way.

I hope myself, that I can take that next step, and be strong enough to finish this soon. I hope that you also are able to be strong in your walk as well. Lot more difficult to do than say. I know.

Ethan, I glad to hear things are falling in place for you. I'm sure that we both have obtained an extensive education in character traits to avoid in women. I hope it serves us both well.

Gray, I know this last week has been a tough one for you. I started to type some things once or twice on your thread, but I know the appropriate words in such a situation are not my forte. There are so many here that have "the gift" I lack in that regard.

Though I am not in that grief mode per se anymore, I occasionally am struck by a wave of melancholy. I regret the life my children have been handed and are saddened to my core at what lays ahead for them. They will one day learn of their mother's exploits. I don't worry that they will be disgusted so much as I worry they will accept it...as my WW accepts her father's infidelity. This cycle in her family has to stop somewhere.

I'm also going over my reaction to the A and am disgusted with the weakness and doormat behavior I exhibited upon the initial revelation. It took me far too long to realize I had to act like I had a pair. Those memories and the single-minded direction my WW has shown are really motivating me to file ASAP. I somehow feel being able to make the decision...and actually want to end this on my terms will redeem me somewhat.

TTSi, Thank you for stopping in on my thread. I often think of your situation and I must confess. I don't want your WW to return. Her, the OC and the complications that would bring into your life astound me. I actually hope to see you, a young childfree man, live a life without all that baggage. It may not be very MB...but I can't lie to ya.

I hope you pop in again and let us know where things are at.

Oh, I try to pop in as much as I can. Sometimes more to read than anything else. I don't post a lot, for a couple reasons. One, being with work and all, I don't have a whole lot of free time anymore. Which I think is a good thing in my situation. Too much idle time = bad thoughts. And two, I've come to the comclusion that while talking about things helps, The only real healing power is time.

I can definitely agree with you about not being a doormat. I can look back myself and with hindsight, make myself sick with how much I bent over for her. Only to get kicked in the teeth time and time again.

I hope to soon get past the grief. I think for me, it will be at that point that I can file and get things done. Kind of sounds to me like it was the same for you.

You are right about ending it on your own terms. It will give you a sense of self-power that we all lose going through this. I think those that are forced to fight a divorce are the ones that take a much longer time to move past these troubles. At least that's my thinking.

I think that as long as you teach your kids well, and that they have a strong belief on right and wrong, that they will not accept this behavior from their mother as ok.

My in-laws and that whole side of the family still do not talk to W. Because of this. Right and wrong is black and white to them, and they know that accepting this just as good as enabling.

Binder, I know that feeling of wanting to find something brilliant and comforting to say, then starting to type, and finding that nothing emerges...

Like you, I've struggled a little with feeling I may have cut my WW too much slack in the beginning. I don't feel I have a lot to regret, but I did something (?) that made her think I was going to be her platonic friend. Obviously she was enough of a mental patient to think that was going to happen. I tried to tell her it hurt, but she didn't care.

And of course, like you've heard a million times, it wasn't you caused this to bomb. You did everything you could. If you didn't use the right psychological strategy to get her to "do what she didn't want to do", so what? You did everything you could to keep your family together and show your WW that she could be forgiven and redeemed.

You should have more than undamaged self-respect. You do, and you know it too.

GC

I took another step towards the dissolution of my marriage today; I met with my minister for and hour and a half. He strikes me as an intelligent man. I also believe he was a manager of a successful business before he got “the calling”. I think this gives him a broader perspective than those that came straight out of high school and into their theology studies. I like him.

Essentially I went to confirm and he agreed that God does permit divorce in cases of infidelity. He qualified that though suggesting that everything possible should be done to avoid that. I think I can safely check that box off.

He also asked the hard questions. He challenged me regarding my desire to divorce my WW. He asked if I am doing this just because it appears to be the next logical step. He likened it to people that feel a sense of obligation from external sources to get married or have children. He also asked about the possibility of reuniting with my WW post divorce. That was easy……No.

I told him the children do not know about the actions of my WW though they have been exposed to the OM as a “friend”. He is of the opinion that they will have to know to stop the cycle of infidelity that seems to be perpetuated in WW’s family. He figures to sit them down at 16 yrs. old or so is not the way. I assured him I will take that into consideration especially when I see the child psychologist upon the divorce. I’m extremely cautious regarding that issue; I know one cannot unsay that once it’s out. I want to make sure I am attempting to achieve a virtuous goal and acting on the best information available before I broach that.

I also stated my intent on just letting WW be served with no heads up. He didn’t like that one much. He felt that lacked compassion and suggested I consider talking to my WW. I could use some opinions in regard to that one. If I did that….what would I say? How would I approach it? Does the suggestion have merit? I must admit part of me would enjoy the thought of my WW getting an out of the blue knock on the door with a callous document server shoving an envelope at her. Does that mean I’m not indifferent? Should I be?

I actually saw my WW on Tuesday evening; I decided to go see our son play soccer. She was there too yucking it up with the other soccer moms, mostly ladies we know through my son’s school. I stood off to the side. She walked up to me, said hello and gave me an exaggerated smile and a crouching sideways glance asking if we can talk. A terse no was all I could muster and I distanced myself more. I just can’t do the smiley, detached, aloof thing. Just not wired that way. She got the stoic iceman instead. Pure MB?……maybe not…..sue me.

Hi Binder,

I haven't been on the site much at all lately.For some reason,I just cannot get motivated to be here anymore.The forum change affected me very much and I think it's just due to a change that to me was unwelcome.One day I was having a grand time being on the "old" MB and the next thing I knew it was down and being changed without my knowledge or consent.As if anyone needs it but it felt like.....maybe another betrayal? I don't know.Weird.

Anyway,I lurk briefly only about once a week now hoping that maybe one day I will be inspired to be here again but I have read your posts and I am sorry you are headed in my general direction still too.There are similarities: I will never reconcile with my STBXWH after D.In fact,I told him recently in an e-mail that I do not love him anymore.It felt very strange to say it but it's most true at this point.There is nothing redeeming at all about him now.I don't even speak to or see him anymore.The feelings have left me and my heart feels hollow when I think of him.

Mediation is a s-l-o-w process though.But we are still at it.If I could suggest,it can be much more cost effective and less painful for you if you want to try Mediation and so dropping the "bomb" on your WW may not be the best option for you and the children.I am not really thinking about your WW but rather how the process would affect you.If you can do most of the paperwork and agree on points together without adversarial Lawyers it may be worth your while to look into it up there in Canada.

Oh and if you see my STBXWH there(he's decided to live up there now permanently,of course to be near the homewrecker instead of near his kids)feel free to cut him off on the highway,trip him in the grocery aisle,throw one of Steve's books at him or tell the homewrecker that she will always be just that: a homewrecker.On second thought,forget this paragraph. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> The one good thing about this arrangement is that there is little chance of any "run ins".

Well,stay strong for those sweet kids you have Binder.They will need you more than ever if you do D.


O

Binder, I'm sorry about my other post. It doesn't make any sense at all! I was very tired. Sober, just tired.

I agree with your minister about the heads up. Long as you aren't placed in a situation where you have to justify serving her, I think it's right to warn her. It is more compassionate, and it will also show her you mean what you say. I know, I know, no satisfaction in it. Oh well. Get your satisfaction other ways, I guess.

I don't know anything about parenting, but a very wise fella I know who has children and a cheating wife has told me he'll tell his children about the affair as soon as they're old enough to ask.

GC

O...thanks for stopping in, I was about to send out an S(Octobergirl)S....wuz wundering where you was. We can use the MB moral compass every now and again.

The separation agreement specifies all division of property and parenting. It's done. I have the children every weekend, 4 1/2 days one weekend, two the other. I paid her out for the house...it's all done. The Divorce will be a paper shuffle (nice eh?). No need to communicate a darn thing or mediate. As soon as she signed the agreement last summer I gave her the letter and there's really been no conversation since. Why start now?

And BTW I doubt I'll run into your STBX if he's in Toronto. I never go there....why does anyone?

Gray, I sorta made sense of that post...does that mean I'm incoherant too? Sorta like two slurring drunks understanding each other when no one else can.
I always appreciate your empathy and the time taken to respond.

I may talk to her....don't know what or how to say it though...I'll think on it. She's the talker...not me. She's socially gifted, can charm anyone and chat about anything for hours. I have the gift of being able to stare down a hole in the ice for hours on end waiting for a small fish to eat a piece food on a hook so I can pull him out and do it all over again. How did we end up together?

Hi Binder,
It is always good to hear from you, though I bet these are not your favorite things to post about.

Fishing, and camping are better.

Why start now?

Well.........as you say, the agreement is in place. She can't change that really. I think I understand where you care coming from, but why not start now? I have seen people say over the years that Steve H told them that it doesn't hurt in plan B to sometimes repeat your love for someone, and tell them again that if they will quit the A, there is still a chance.

If you are done, and there is no chance, then I agree with you. But, if there is a chance, it wouldn't hurt to tell her that you are about ready for D, but you would still consider trying to make it work

And BTW I doubt I'll run into your STBX if he's in Toronto. I never go there....why does anyone?

Having lived in the west, and heard all the jokes about the eastern Canadians.........You know they are not all like that. Heck, someone in Edmonton probably has a daughter that married and moved there. It would be good for them to visit the grand kids once in a while.

However, I think I understand where you are coming from. Thought I would tease back.


I may talk to her....don't know what or how to say it though...I'll think on it. She's the talker...not me. She's socially gifted, can charm anyone and chat about anything for hours.

If you think for a few minutes, and spend some time on your knees, you will know:
1. If you should talk.

2. What to say.


I have the gift of being able to stare down a hole in the ice for hours on end waiting for a small fish to eat a piece food on a hook so I can pull him out and do it all over again. How did we end up together?

My W is the same. Life of the party. Why did she marry Stoic SS? Me who would rather go camping than even look at a mall.

Just be glad they do look at us, you know you had some good years. Even now you would be happy had she not gone off the deep end.

You only have a few weeks my friend. Pray some, and tell us what you think.

SS