Hi, I am a mom to two, married 10 years most of them rocky. I discovered over a year ago that my husband was having an EA with one of our friends. I confronted him with it after I had proof it went further than talking on the cell phone and he denied it 3 days before repenting and saying he wanted to work things out but still wanted to be friends with her. I let it go at that thinking he would come around since I had changed my life and was meeting his physical and emotional needs better than before. He never let me talk about the affair after that and never was open and honest with me about what all actually went on. Our marriage seemed to be doing so much better the last while so I was shocked (although I wondered) to find out they are still talking. Not just occasionally but several times a week (most weeks) for hours at a time. Her husband is not faithful to her and can treat her badly at times so she can really play on my husbands sympathies and I think he feels like he needs to be there for her. He doesn't know that I know yet and I am still trying to decided what to do. The first time I acknowledged that it was partly my fault. This time though is beyond me. I know if I say anything he will say they are just friends (that's what he did the first time too) and that there is nothing to it. Am I making a mountaing out of nothing? Do I have a right to expect him to not talk to other women like that? especially one he felt so much for before?! Help!!!!

NO no no this has got to stop.
Ask him if he doesn't mind having these long talks with the OW while you listen in.
Dr Phil will tell you, if it is something you wouldn't do in the presence of your spouse...then you shouldn't be doing it.

In a word...NO, they can't be friends.

Don't let yourself be convinced that there is nothing to this. An affair is an affair whether emotional or physical....and in many cases the emotional sort can be much more damning to a marriage (yours) than the physical.

From the info you give, it seems that the "original" EA was never really dealt with. There are issues there that need to be gotten out in the open if this cycle is ever going to stop.

No. They cannot be friends. If she's filling his needs you can't. It's a bummer I know.

He won't get it. My WW sure doesn't get it. It makes them feel good! If it feels good, why should I stop??
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
SIS

It doesn't matter if your husband calls it a baloney sandwich, it is what it is. And what it is is an affair. They are not "friends" and cannot ever turn the clock back and be "friends" again.

I would suggest doing Plan A, starting with calling up her husband and letting him know that his wife is being "friends" with your husband and they are so "friendly" that they are sneaking around talking on a regular basis. Perhaps if he had been told the first time you found out, it wouldn't have gotten this far. But, if you want to save your marriage, then you must do everything in your power to end this affair. And the most effective thing you can do to end it is EXPOSE THE AFFAIR. Call the husband, close family members and close friends and let them know. Your H shouldn't mind since they are only "friends." Then do your best to avoid lovebusters and try and meet his needs. You probably can save your marriage if you take some bold steps to break up this affair, but if you do nothing, then the outlook is bleak. They can't be "friends" and they can't stay in contact.

Momtotash, first I want to say, welcome to MB, although I’m sorry you need to be here and have to suffer the consequences & pain of your H’s betrayal… However, you’ve found the right place for help, support and advice.

I just want to confirm what the others have said and that it is that it is definitely NOT possible for your H and the OW to stay friends… Your H thinks he can stay friends with her because he is in a thick “fog” and addicted to the OW – he want to have his cake and eat it too… Well, you can’t and must NOT allow this…not EVER!

Once the boundaries from platonic love into romantic love has been crossed, there is NO turning back… Most A’s happen to people who originally have good intentions and think they will be able to stay “just good friends”. But when they do cross the line, they forfeit the chance to be friends ever again. Please take it from someone who has been there an done that… I was once involved in an e-mail friendship with a man at my work. During the 3rd year of the friendship, boundaries were crossed and the friendship became inappropriate and developed to beginning of EA. After that we tried to stay “just platonic friends” for a while but it didn’t work… It can’t work, not even with the BS’s permission and consent! Once an emotional connection is established it’s very hard (almost impossible) to go into reverse.

There is another poster on these boards d_rose who originally agreed that his W remain friends with OM so she would agree to stay married to him and long story short, it didn’t work… Continued contact just keeps the A going... You see, even if the WS and OP really try to go into reverse and “just stay friends” after an A, the inappropriate feelings for each other and the emotional attachment & attraction to each other is STILL there (even if they don’t act on the feelings) and because of this there will ALWAYS be a chance that the WS and OP will cross boundaries again or at the least carry on with the A in their heart & mind (this was the case with me).

My point is, your H and OW need to have NO CONTACT with each other out of respect for you, themselves and your M. Your H need to stop ALL contact with OW, go through withdrawal and then start recovery with you… Withdrawal is a very important step in the recovery process and continued contact with the OW will only prolong the pain for all parties involved and prevent your H from start the recovery process with you. You H won’t be able to heal if he carries on contact with OW and you will also not be able to heal.

Blessings,
Suzet

Melodylane
I forgot to mention it before but I did call her husband the first time I found out. The thing is he doesn't care!He is the one who gave my husband his wifes number in the first place. He was upset that it had gone beyond talking and wanted the meeting to quit but he doesn't care if they talk. He says she tells him everything they talk about. He has his own trouble with porn and other women. He wants to be able to do his own thing so he lets her do hers. When I called him he thought maybe him and I could start our own affair. I am NOT calling him again! I did think I might talk to his (my husbands) parents and some other friends. I had only told my two close friends before. He is really a great guy and I really do love him and don't want him to leave. I know this may be stupid but I would rather live with this than put my children through a divorce. On the other hand he fears his parents enough that I think he will come around if I confront him. I just know he will deny it vehemantly at first and I don't know if I should confront him here at home or write him a letter and leave it here for him to find while I go visit my parents in another state....?What?

The short answer is that, yes, they can be friends. It'll just destroy your marriage.

Dobie

momtoash, by all means call up his parents, your parents and any close friends or family members you think would help. Don't tell him you are going to do this. See, exposure takes all the fun out an affair and hastens it death. He will have to see how sleazy it looks through the eyes of others when he is forced to explain it to his parents.

Before you do that, you have to confront him, though, Have you not confronted him with this information? If not, then sit down and have a calm talk with him. Explain to him that this is an affair and it is hurting you very much and ask him to stop now. If he refuses or doesn't stop, then expose him. But don't EVER TELL him you are going to expose before you do it.

Another important thing is to read as much as you can here and do the best Plan A you can. In addition to exposing him, that means no lovebusters, no fighting, and doing your best to meet his needs.

momtotash,

Let's not make this more complicated than it needs to be.

Fear. You seem to be afraid of confrontation and conflict.

What would Jesus Do?

[color:"blue"]Go now, AND LEAVE your life of sin.[/color] It is "NOW!, henceforth, immediate, right this minute, TODAY"....no "ands, ifs, or buts about it. No "wiggleroom," no worry about someone else's "feelings," no attempted excuses for sinful behavior, no anything but simple and humble obedience to God's command.

The Christian marriage is an exclusive "threesome," and the only "threesome" allowed in the covenant...husband, wife, and God. "Forsaking ALL others and keeping myself ONLY unto you, until death do we part."

So who IS on the throne of your husband's life? Christ or self?

WHAT VALUE and COMMITMENT DOES your husband place on his marriage VOWS to you? The same question applies to you with regard to your husband.

Your husband "belongs" to you and you "belong" to your husband through marriage. You have both voluntarily surrendered your "right" to be selfish and think only of your "own" wants and desires. You have both made a covenant to put your spouse's needs AHEAD of your own, especially when your actions would result in hurt, pain, and anguish for your spouse.

"Is it fair?," your husband might ask. No, it may not be "fair" by humanistic standards, but it is RIGHT and is implicit in the covenant of marriage. It it always easy? No, but we didn't "sign on" to marriage just for the "good times" and the "easy times." We signed on for the total and complete package. It IS and WAS "until DEATH do us part," NOT "until I want to do something that puts my 'needs' ahead of your needs and lets my TAKER rule supreme REGARDLESS of the pain it inflicts upon you through my PURPOSEFUL actions."

He can no more be friends with someone he has committed adultery with than you could be expected to remain friends with someone who castrated him while you held him down.

Twisted and twisting. THAT is how people caught up in adultery perceive the world and their actions. Conviction and repentance (turning 180 degrees AWAY from the sinful behavior) of their sin is the ONLY way to go.....unless you are comfortable with the sort of arrangement that the OW's husband seems to want (it justifies his own sinful behavior).

Take a stand. It is HARD. We all know that and we will help all we can. Your husband has "proven" that he will NOT change his behavior without a "crisis." That "crisis" is YOU standing firm on the marriage covenant vows you BOTH made. "Forsaking all others" is NOT an "optional clause," it is the defining clause of marriage even when two people are not in "loooooovvvve" with each other. It requires "LOVE" to be an ACTION, not a "feeling."

God bless.

MelodyLane

I need to ask you why do you suggest a plan A instead of plan B? I was counting the first time I confronted him as my plan A. I have been doing some major thinking over this and what I want to do about it. Here is what I have come up with. No I have not confronted him with this new information yet. He doesn't think there is any way for me to get his cell phone records. They don't come with his bill but they just started putting it online, but he doesn't have a clue. I thought maybe I would confront him with it Sunday eve. and than if he denies it going to his parents the next day and telling them than going to my parents (out of state) without telling him (he'll know where I've gone) and than tell him I won't be home till he is done with the OW. I remember so well from the first time I confronted him that he doesn't think it is an affair if they are just talking and that I am getting bent out of shape about nothing so I really want him to see how serious this is and how much it is hurting me. Or do you think he will see that enough by telling family and friends? I am not really afraid of us never getting back together if I leave because the OW will never get divorced and my WH loves his children enough to stay for them. Also he has a healthy fear of his parents that should keep him in line. So much to think about. Help me if you can!

Ok ForeverHers, You hit the nail on the head. I read your message and thought over it awhile than reread it. I am afraid of confrontation and conflict. For good reason it seems. That is what got us into the trouble we are in the first place. I simply drove him away. I have worked hard and long on becoming a quiet and submissive wife. But I realize too that a crises is what he needs to wake up from the fog he is in. Thank you so much for helping me see my marriage is worth taking a stand for. Not just for my sake but for his as well.

Momtoash, I wouldn't wait a second to confront him. Do it today, there is no reason to wait. I think you should try to end this affair before you go to plan B. Expose him first and see if it ends it. That is an important part of Plan A that you have not done.

And secondly, it is ALWAYS a bad idea for the BS to leave the home. If anyone leaves, it should be the WS. Your children should not be ripped from their home to accommodate their dads affair. Nor do you want him bringing the OW into your home.

So please try our suggestions before you go to Plan B: confront him now and then expose him.

MelodyLane, Thank you for your advice. I can see the wisdom of what you say. The only reason I would have gone to my parents was because they love if I bring the grandkids home and I have a new nephew to go see and I was imagining that before the week was out he would have been ready to end the A and have me home. It's almost worse for the children to be at home and not have Daddy come home in the eve. when they know it is time for him to be home. I have gone home (my parents) before for a week so that is nothing new to them. But, I will try your suggestion TODAY! Thank you for caring.

Oh, I forgot to add, the OW's husband is a long distance truck driver who is rarely at home so if I kick hubby out I know that is where he will go because he has gone there before. and he has already said that if he leaves he won't ever come back. (the was before I confronted him the first time so maybe he doesn't feel that way any more I just would hate to push him).

MTT

It is not too much to expect that he will not speak to the OW. You are not making this larger than what it is...This is a huge problem...There is no such thing as "just being friends" that is how he got in to trouble in the first place.

Melody has given you good advice follow it.

From what you have written he seems like a bully. He isn't the one that should be making threats. You will not make threats but you need to show him where the boundries are...actually he knows where they are but he'll try to push the line because he know's you are insecure.(htat's what bullies do)

H

Thanks Hiker. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

MomtoAsh, please don't kick him out. Don't yell or rant or rave. Just calmly present him with the evidence and ask him what he intends to do about it. Tell him that his affair is hurting you terribly and jeopardizing your marriage. Do not let him bait you into a fight, ok? They often do this when confronted in order to make you the bad guy. So don't let him drag you into a fight.

Then come back here and tell us what he says.

Mom, if you haven't read the book "Not Just Friends" pick a copy. When you hear the words "We're just friends!" alarms should be going off in your head. I hate to even say the following, but I remember all too well back in January 2004 when someone from MB said this to me. This was when I began posting and related how my H said he had "feelings" for the OW but they never had acknowledged them to each other. I then found something he had written that indicated he was at least thinking of leaving me. The MB poster said don't be surprised if it's a PA also. Well, guess what? The not acknowledging feelings turned out to be about a 9 month EA and a 7 month PA.

I'm not saying a PA is going on here, but WSs are the greatest liers. My H, who never had lied to me in 18 yrs. became an expert. Be strong. Do not accept the M with OW in it. Our MC told us this quote once that the only 3rd person who should be in a M is the marriage therapist. You can tell your H you love him, will stay with him and work on your M, but you won't tolerate ANY relationship with the OW. NADA! I've seen enough BSs on MB who have tried to allow that to work. I have never seen the M work with the OP in the picture. Good luck! CV

Thanks to everyone who posted here. you have been a big help. Hiker, I had to laugh when you said he is a bully. I never saw him that way but have since had to agree with you. I finally confronted him Friday eve with what I knew and he of course was like "what are you talking about?" and got very defensive and tried to start an arguement, (like you said MelodyLane). No I did not get drawn into that. I have been really working for over a year (when this A started) to eliminate LB's and don't want to go back there. He said he has no feelings for her anymore blah, blah, blah. I said I will not be satisfied till he writes her a NC letter (that I will mail) and changes his cell phone number. He said he will NOT write a letter, that is gay. He will call her. I said no, I will not settle for anything less than a letter. He barely slept that night but the next morning when I got up he handed me a letter to send. He had sealed it so I ripped it open and he had written, "don't call me anymore". I said "i'm sorry this will not work" He was sooooo upset he said fine why don't you just write the letter since you know what you want it to say. I told him a little what I wanted it to say and he did sit back down and rewrite it. Said how he thinks their freindship has gone too far and in order for our marriage to heal they need to quit talking and have no contact and that he has changed his phone number. He called than and changed his number. I must have sounded more sure of myself than I felt cuz I honestly did not think he would do anything I asked. (He does not like for me to tell him what to do) He asked than If I wanted to go to the mall with him and I did but he has been very quiet ever since. Is this withdrawel already? or should I be worried about something else? He has been very nice and helpful but won't carry a converstation with me. I have been second guessing myself ever since Friday eve. I probably went about it all wrong. Maybe he would have quit talking to her eventually on his own? Will this just drive him further from me? Will he get over it after awhile? and how long will that take? Last night I was almost ready to tell him "fine, go call her if that makes you happy". I know, I know. I won't do that but at least before he was talking and happy.

Thanks again to everyone for your advice. I couldn't have gone through with this without you.

momtoash, I am VERY VERY proud of you for laying down your boundaries and making it very clear what you will and won't tolerate. You did an excellent job and did it without being dragged into a fight.

NOW, he has a clear picture of your expectations. You very much did the right thing.

HOWEVER, please know that this is likely just the FIRST ROUND. He did this largely because he felt coerced into it. But that is ok, because you desperately needed to show him that boundary line. I just want you be prepared for repeat contact. Because it will probably happen.

And when it does, you tell him what your boundaries are again. No contact, PERIOD. There is not room in this marriage for 3 people and you will not share your H with another woman.

Now start watching him like a hawk. Have you ever talked to this OW?


Why would he? What man in his right mind would give up such a perfect set up with TWO women! He had no motivation to stop until you gave it to him. Essentially, you were enabling his affair, at your own expense. Just remember that, ok?


He was happy because he had a nice little harem lined up and you ruined his party! Were you "happy" with that arrangement? [don't ever tell him to go call her!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />]

Let him sulk, he will be in withdrawal for a few weeks. Just be prepared and ride it out. You did the right thing!

Can you go online and look at his cell phone calls?