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A lot of people post here confused over the occurance of continued contact with the OP....
be it a known thing..."the can't we be friends" spumage...
or the insidious...
We are in no contact...while bold face lying...
lets say this...
if you are here...
and if you in the thoes of discovery or somewhere down the line...
and are IN plan A...or contemplating plan A...
understand is done with understanding that
THERE IS CONTACT OCCURING...PERIOD...
if you are in PLAN A...most likely that means the WS and OP are in contact....no matter how baffling and unbelievable it sounds...it is in fact the premise on which the Harleys created PLAN A...
so there it is...
so you plan A while expecting contact...
and as intolerable contact with the OP is..
so is powerstruggling intolerable to the effectiveness of YOUR plan A...
infact power struggling the demands of no contact feeds right in to the WS plan of deflecting responsibility and ownership of the damage of an affair...
power struggle the demands of no contact and expect to hear back....
it plays like a bad soundtrack..
are you ready...
"See you won't let me have friends"
"You are trying to control who I talk to"
"See you don't trust me."
"You always try to tell me who I can have in my life"
"See you don't want me to have anything."
"You expect me to go to work and come home and just sit here and do and be nothing."
"You are controlling>"
Feel free to add yours
but do I need to go on?
all those things deflect from the real issue of the value of no contact...
no one should choose a marriage with someone in which the BS has to ENFORCE or POLICE no contact...
NO CONTACT must be a value to the WS that they understand and mean....
you can not in your BS pain lose sight of the big picture of what you are trying to rebuild down the road...
So
this is NOT to say that you don't speak your desire for no contact...in direct calm relationship to the pain that it causes you...
you speak your pain of no contact clearly....with emotion that is self direct and paints a picture...
things like..
"Each encounter Ws that you have with the OP whether you mean it to or not...leaves me feeling unabashadly vulnerable and non-protected...and I always valued that you WS would be my one protector on this earth...
change your language.
change your explaination.....
this is also a time to use reverse babble...
WS says that they want to have OP as a friend...
BS says back to them..I have been thinking about that as well and I have decided to invite your OP friend and his/her spouse for dinner do you think they prefer fish or chicken....
or tell the WS that you wanted to call the Op and invite him/her out with the girls/guys....
since we are all just friends....
etc...
You also need to state clearly without powerstruggling and without blame, AND without ultimatums... that you have chosen and spoken vows to your spouse...and never ever did you mention the inclusion of a third party and that is not something that is acceptable to you...
with out an ultimatum of what you are going to do..
because what you are going to do is plan B....
and Plan B is all about putting action behind all these words you have spoken about what is tolerable and what is intolerable in your life....
you expose lies each and every time you know without fighting or powerstruggling...
you don't ask how could you because you expect them in plan A...
Plan A frees you from the emotional garbage
plan A is all about expecting the worst and planning for the best...
Plan A is all about figuring out the worst before it occurs....
it is hope for both the WS and BS...
plan A is not about recovery and expecting a WS to 'get it'
and expecting a WS to get it plan A is most likely detrimental...
you don't want a fake WS for a marriage partner..
you want a reformed WS for a marriage partner that CHOOSES..
ARK ^^
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lets say this...
if you are here...
and if you in the thoes of discovery or somewhere down the line...
and are IN plan A...or contemplating plan A...
understand is done with understanding that
THERE IS CONTACT OCCURING...PERIOD...
if you are in PLAN A...most likely that means the WS and OP are in contact....no matter how baffling and unbelievable it sounds...it is in fact the premise on which the Harleys created PLAN A...
so there it is... Bravo! Yes, this is it. Understand that the understanding is that there IS contact. Period! This is the key, and the part I missed for so long. ASSUME that there is contact, EXPECT that there is contact. And with that the Plan A makes perfect sense. And becomes an art. I love the way you put it Ark - The ART of Plan A!
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Pure wisdom. Where were you when I was plan Aing? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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Oh no you don't little beauty.
You are needed too much right now to go to page 2!
bumpity
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That realization is what in the last few days has brought me from long periods of crying to a more calm acceptance. My WH didn't try to hide the fact that contact was occurring, which was agonizing, but tried to make it seem as if it was all innocuous ("there's nothing going on") when some of my 'affair research' clearly revealed that it wasn't. I have chosen not to confront in order to protect the availability of my source of info, but just simply accepted that yes, he is still hooked, yes, he's definitely had sex with her more than once (like he claimed), yes, he is probably still having sex with her, even if it's not very often (he does spend most of his time at home now or working with reliable friends who would not cover for him, e.g. my brother), and most importantly yes, he is lying to me. as soon as i stopped trying to fight that, i felt strong again & ready to go on.
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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ARK^^
You're timing is amazing. I'm back in plan A again. Its much easier this time. I'm not looking for his acknowledgement or admiration. I feel certain he is in contact w/OW. I've shared that w/ OWH. We are both looking for proof. I've got my plan B letter all ready (which you gave me great feedback on) I'll have to fine tune it some of the minor details have changed because of the time line.
I'm not so emotional (today anyway) I have a plan. Before the worst thing I could imagine was him leaving. That doesn't seem so scarey to me anymore. The kids and I got a ton of support the 1st time he left. We will survive if/when he leaves again.
aka-confused42
BS-45 me
WH-42
DS-14 & DD-12
together 21 yrs, married 18.5yrs
"I love you but not IN love with you" speech 6/3/04
D-Day 2/25/05; WH moved out 3/15/05 & back too soon 3/22/05...He left again 5/8/06
5/25/06 Plan B.....NC letter 6/18/06
Recovery finally began Jan 2007
We are IN love again!!!Sept 2007
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I just want to say I hate hate hate hate hate these new boards... I can't stay logged in I can't be ark^^ I can't stand most sappy poetry I can't see the whole post when I want to reply I can only see the post part I pick to reply to... I can't find the post I really wanted to reply.. so I am self indudglently bumping my own SMUG post... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> and I can't believe that people don't understand my posts........ which is just more proof of my own insanity...since I always make perfect sense to me hate hate hate hate hate hate hate!!! these new boards... arkie^^
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I also hate the fact that 102 people have read this post and only six have replied...and three of them were ME!!
It is a very offensive little "part" of these new boards...
my ego is much too needy to be satisfied with knowing all those people looked and didn't say anything....
add THAT to the list of things I hate!!!!!!!!!!
ARK^^!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I understand your post arkiepoo...I really, really do. In fact I find them to be almost mystical. What's the word?? Ummmmmmmmm oh yeah, quazi-mystical. Yes that's it, quazi-mystical utterings. Can we call you quazi-moto?? Does that mean something good or soemthing bad? Well I am just going to give you the little blusher guy right now, just in case you put too much blusher on today! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
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weaver..
I would HATE to be called quazi-moto
and did I mention I HATE the new emoticons...they are freaky looking....
ARK^^
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Wow, somebody forgot to take their happy pill today.
You're in Texas today aren't you Ark. Should have told them to send someone else. That's what I do when then they try to get me to go to Texas.
Anyhoo, there is an awful lot of HATES on this "the ART of Plan A" thread. But that's okaaaaay, cuq it's your thread.
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Weaver..
Thank God I am NOT in Texas..
IF I were there this would be a whole post...titled
the top 100000000000 things I HATE about Texas...
sheesh that thought was almost enough to send this Yank right into a chocolate fudge ripple coma....
ARK
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Thought I would reply since I read it and agree with that how many people viewed and how few reply is rude and unsettling too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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Ark
I identify with your words very closely.
When I exposed with words to OM GF contact continued between Squid and OM by phone. They both lied in double act to convince OM GF that she was crazy and I was an obsessive jealous husband.
With every evidence of contact or intended contact I made my boundary very clear: " When you contact this man with whom you raped my marriage I receive it as an act of deliberat ehurt that I do not deserve. I do not shackle you, go and be with him, or stay and be with me. But you can no longer be friends with him and be with me. You gave up any possibility of that when you had sex with him.
I cannot allow myself and our kids to be subjected to such wholesale disrespect."
She used to swear at me and stay silent for hours as a reult.
After I exposed with proof ( OMs soppy love letters) contact all but ceased. I used the same approach "I cannot tolerat edeliberate disrespect and hurt, and such does not demonstrate your commitment to our M".
Squid has told me since that she felt a burden upon her contacting OM when I has said such to her. She had honestly deluded herself that contact was fine without sex, and in fact was NECESSARY because they were soul mates. I think it is extremely important that during plan A the BS lts the WS know the effects of the affair on their heart and life, without LBing.
The only comment I would add to your great post is that no behaviour of the BS can stop contact with OP.
You can influence it, but not directly affect it. The infidels at some point must choose NC.
MB Alumni
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I also hate the fact that 102 people have read this post and only six have replied...and three of them were ME!!
It is a very offensive little "part" of these new boards...
my ego is much too needy to be satisfied with knowing all those people looked and didn't say anything....
add THAT to the list of things I hate!!!!!!!!!!
We know perfection when we see it. When something is perfect, it needs no reply, or additions. Bumps maybe, but not replies.
Hi Ark^^,
Please understand.....your post was so good I feel in awe -
And, knowing that nothing I could say would add to it, I was silent.
Now, please take this next at face value, and don't try to read anyting in to it.
WHEN SOMEONE IS AS GOOD AT THIS AS YOU ARE, WE ASSUME YOU KNOW YOU ARE GOOD AT IT. You did make me laugh though, thanks for that too.
Sometimes I almost think you are mortal like the rest of us.
Your humble servant,
SS
I think sometimes about all the pain in the world. I hope we can ease that here, even if only a little bit.
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LOL ! Ark SS just made me read your whinin' & whingin ! ROFL ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Ark is mortal after all ! LOL ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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I just want to say I hate hate hate hate hate these new boards... I can't stay logged in I can't be ark^^ I can't stand most sappy poetry I can't see the whole post when I want to reply I can only see the post part I pick to reply to... I can't find the post I really wanted to reply.. so I am self indudglently bumping my own SMUG post... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> and I can't believe that people don't understand my posts........ which is just more proof of my own insanity...since I always make perfect sense to me hate hate hate hate hate hate hate!!! these new boards... arkie^^ Ark^^ I must apologise. I think it may have been my post on the Controversial Thread that made you feel bad. Well, since my own words have been quoted several times, I KNOW it was my post. It was a spoof post, Ark^^, but I deliberately included some pointed comments in order to make my case about the nature of judgementalism. For the record, I do not consider your posts 'quasi-mystical'. I think you almost always insightful and fair. I do not see you as smug OR pretentious. I do sometimes struggle with the ellipses... But, in the nature of things, this post will not engender the same interest as the other. I'm sorry. TogetherAlone
"Integrity is telling myself the truth. And honesty is telling the truth to other people." - Spencer Johnson
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togetheralone... no worry.. I know it was a spoof... I appreciate you clarifying..but know there was NO need... mine is a spoof as well except for hating the new boards... I still hate them.... ps I don't even know what an ellipse exactly is...I thought it was something about the moon going in front of the sun or vica-versa... I think I may rather enjoy being elliptical now that I think of it... ARK^^ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> still hate these emoticons though........
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Ark^^ Just passing by and read your post. I was a little, uhh,er..., afraid not to at least post a "hi" to you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Seriously, I enjoy your posts. They're meat and potatoes, no fluffy sauces and fillers. (Can you tell I'm on a diet?)
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All right Ark,
Since you take offense at "tourists" on your threads.......I'll give a response.
Whom ever gives advice on this topic:
Please make sure to always include that Plan A has a "time limit" component to it.
I read of posters going into a year or More of "plan Aing".
Aaaaarrrrgggghhh!
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