Together Alone,

Just wanted to say how much I enjoyed your post!

I find that for me, if I have the goal of more fulfilling relationships (with H and others) it requires constant internal questioning about whether I am speaking the truth or whether I am judging. In some cases (ie I am revealing my feelings and where they come from) its easy to tell the difference, but beyond that, it can get murky.

I am quite capable of slugging others with my fantastically well thought out and informed opinions, whether they asked, whether they are interested, whether it will help them, or not! After all, my intention is to help(him/her/them)! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

One thing I am noticing is that I often get a little nervous when I'm about to reveal something truthful. Its more of a risk. Its easier for me to say "You are being lazy in not doing XYZ!" than "I am frustrated because I want more help from you."

Sorry slight threadjack here.....

Thanks, Smur. I know what you mean. My mother is the Queen of Judgements, and I have been the Princess. I find it hard work, too.

Just to point out to all who have read / contributed to this thread - there is a first-time WS posting on Recovery, who has not been responded to by the posters on this thread, as far as I can see. However, he has already been called a 'scumbag' by a well-intentioned and doubtless quite sincere poster, who believes the WS 'needs' to hear it (and who apologised for his tough talking).

The WS seems remorseful, shamed, and anxious to heal his marriage. Many aspects of his behaviour have lacked integrity, but he is not a wall-to-wall scumbag.

Perhaps one of us could use our experience to help this WS respectfully?

TogetherAlone

Perhaps one of us could use our experience to help this WS respectfully?

TA, I have no experience of being a WS, only being very very hurt by one. My advice to one would be at best limp and at worst imbued with unintentional spite at my own experience. I ACTIVELY stay away from WS posters , not PASSIVELY if I explian that correctly.

TogetherAlone,

Yes, I’ve also noticed the “scumbag” remark to the new poster and it was very disappointing. The new poster indeed sound very remorseful & repentant about his past actions… He sounds like someone who genuinely & sincerely wants to make amends in his M and help to heal is W…certainly not a “scumbug” type who needs ‘tough love’. Well, certainly he acted like a “scumbag” in the past, but it’s clearly not the case anymore…

TA, and there are first time posters on this forum that have not been responded to by posters on this thread. So what?

Hopefully, you aren't implying that we all have some sort of moral obligation to respond to each and every new person, regardless of whether we have something to contribute or not. I post to those to whom I think I have something to offer. If I don't think I have something to offer, then I don't respond. It's real simple. However, that doesn't stop you or anyone else from responding to whomever you choose. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

edited to add: I looked in on at thread and saw that several posters on this thread, [and not on this thread] had in fact, posted to the new person, so am not sure what the problem is.

Melody Lane

The point I was making was that the poster in question had been referred to a a 'scumbag' - a term that has been discussed earlier in this thread. I mentioned it because it illlustrated the point that was raised at the start of this thread. The fact that few of the 'standard' posters-to-WS's have posted to that thread is indicative, I suspect, of bruised feelings created by THIS thread, which is worth thinking about.

I am not suggesting that any poster should feel obliged to respond. In fact, my earlier post made clear that this forum is NOT here to provide a service; no poster should feel a sense of obligation because no postee has a right to expect specific or continued support. I did not ask that posters respond - I simply suggested that someone more experienced might find it possible to respond with respect.

The 'problem', as I should perhaps make clearer, is that the term 'scumbag' - while true to the poster's feelings - seems to me disrespectful, inaccurate and ineffective. Although the WS in this instance has not objected, I suspect that pandering to his self-loathing is not the best way to get him out of the hole he's in.

TogetherAlone

TA, thanks for clarifying your point. However, I do not equate forthrightness with calling someone names. The thread that started this thread had no name calling, it had some very direct talk that made the originator - of this thread - uncomfortable. Perhaps it also made the new person uncomfortable, but that's ok.

The bottom line is that we all have different ideas of what constitutes respect and very different sensitivity levels and we should respect that. We can't dictate to others how they should post. Respect is a 2 way street.

[color:"navy"]I re-read Jimmy's first post. I think what he is basically saying is to be kind and thoughtful when we reply to anyone. And that doesn't mean to 'softsoap' what is right and wrong.

"Soft words calm wrath and harsh words stir up anger." (One of my favorite Bible verses.)

What I think about posting to ANYONE is we should never hide behind our anonymity (sp?)to say cruel things.

(Like 'Together Alone' just pointed out, saying: "You are a scumbag" to a hurting & sorrowful WS is not a good way to help them.)

We should advise as we would if we were sitting beside a hurting friend. Perhaps PRETEND we are holding their hand, better yet, kneeling together... as we are discussing what they need to do in their lives to make things right in their marriages.

Bottom line I guess would be to never say ANYTHING we wouldn't say to a friend or relative
in the same predicament.

Sincerely, Julie <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Like I told Jimmy, I'm going to sit this one out.

If telling someone they are lucky to be given a second chance in their marriage is seen as hurtful to the poster, I just have no idea of what to say.

You do it.

Pep

Julie, I make it a point to talk to people the same in person as I do here. And I rarely use "soft words." In person or on the internet. That is just not my personality. I am straightforward and direct. I am sorry if you don't approve. Not ALL situations call for "soft words," especially at the expense of the truth. Jesus himself did not use soft words when the situation warranted otherwise.

Just to reinforce this point, a trawl of my past post would show Mel kicking my [censored] soundly several times, much harder than she has any WS in my memory. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I remember to thank her every time I sit down ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

In truth, firm words can cut through fog and despair.

Bob, strangely I don't recall all this uproar when a BS gets a much needed 2x4 between the eyes! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Do you know, that's true! Why did no-one rush to my defence when Twyla used to slap me left-and-right?

I think I can feel a flounce coming on...

TogetherAlone

I will protect ya, honey!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Blessed Time said:


I went and reread aforementioned first post after reading your interpretation.

I did not find the words "kind" or "thoughtful" anywhere, nor did I find synonyms for these words.

How do you know that was his intended meaning if he did not say these things?

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[color:"navy"]I don't know Pep, I guess I just took it from what he said in the above quote, that if we could be, kind & caring, in our replies, it would do more good...(And remain true to our beliefs of right and wrong)

I realize I did kinda analize his words with my OWN take on their meaning. However, that is the meaning I received from his post. I guess we each interpret messages differently.

No one can ever ever convince me that harsh or critical words could ever help anyone. I think (and this is JUST what I think, doesn't have to be how others think) that advice should be given with a loving and caring attitude.
Words can be FIRM but IMHO, should never be harsh or cruel; using name calling (Like: Pond Scum etc.) Very childish and unnessary.

I learned this a long time ago:
We learn kindness from the unkind."
In other words, how we DON'T want to act.

Sincerely, Julie <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think we would probably "do more good" if we remembered that we can only control ourselves and not others. If we spent a little more time trying to improve ourselves instead of busily scrutinizing others, imagine what we could achieve! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

We might be spending an inordinate amount of time helping those in need on this forum instead of being distracted with threads like this.

right....

As far as I can tell, no one is even trying to!

The point in question is interpreting the intent and words of others without asking them what they meant! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />