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I appreciate the input, B & Mimi. I am dying to expose her, though I resisted while I thought there was NC because I didn't want to be spiteful, and that definitely would have been. Could you give more clarification about how threatening to expose first would give her more power? It feels like I would have a lot more power, but I know this is probably one of those counter-intuitive things, too. Any further info will be much appreciated.
Right now I am working on my "this is why you are so busted" letter, then I will do my PBL, then my "this is what you have to do if you want to stay married to me" letter. I will post all 3 of those as I finish them and ask for input. When they are as perfect as we can all make them, I will launch. Here is a quick drive by post. I would suggest spending more energy and thought into TRULY addressing your WH and truly accepting the reality of what he has done (and is doing). Expose the OW NOW. No need to talk about it. There is no NEED to warn her. Your actions and "plan" in May FAILED, so now you need to do something different.JUST DO IT and let her deal with the fallout of HER part of this affair. After this, FORGET about the OW. This is on your WH. One of my major beefs with ***some*** of the prevaling thoughts here is the obsessive nature many BS give to the OP. Please put to rest that this is something very special between your Wayward and the OW.....it isn't. Take away the OW WITHOUT addressing the major reasons for your WH betraying his entire family repeatedly is akin to worrying about treating a terminal cancer patient with high blood pressure medication because you are worried about the blood pressure. I am rooting for you, but I am honestly worried you are still in a "fog". You are drafting all of these letters and whatnot, but AS EVIDENCED daily here, letters don't mean $hit with out rigid FORCE behind them. While you construct the "perfect" letter, please remember this. If you have read this site, you know that EXPOSURE is the absolute surest way to end the affair. Why are you wasting even one second not using all of your resources? You are worried about "spite"? F**K spite. This woman is actively partaking in screwing your WH, screwing the father of your children...Why is "spite" even a concern? DO THIS and then address your WH, and BE READY to "walk the walk". You are delaying things now, you are consciously or subconsciouly conflict avoiding. PLEASE STOP !!! Sorry if this isn't want you wanted to hear, but I can only call em like I see em. I am not out to win any popularity contests here, so you know that what I say..I truly mean. God bless and good luck. Your friend, Sourmale, MD
Some people just don't get it, they don't get it that they don't get it.
I had the right to remain silent.......but I didn't have the ability.
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Neak -
You already wrote WH the Plan B letter. Is that right? I don't think there needs to be a Plan B letter number 2. Why would he take that anymore seriously than the first one?
I think you need to write him a short note:
Dear WH -
When we married, I meant it to be forever. But I cannot force you to honor our marriage. As you are still in contact with the OW, there can be no healing in our relationship. Please find another place to live tonight.
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I T-TOTALLY AGREE WITH LM!
I don't have much time tonignt so I might sound blunt.
DEAL WITH YOUR WH and EXPOSE.
If no definite PLAN to get rid of the OW for good, for the rest of his life then PLAN B!
Don't sink to the level of the other woman! I would stop communcation with her!
Remain the GODDESS that you are...stay out of the gutter...
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Neak -
I only tell you this because I have been through almost 3 years of the same cr*p. It just wears you out. I think it is better to draw your boundaries early.
After D-day, I had about 30 more D-days. WH swore he had NC with OW. He stood up in church with me and asked for prayers for our reconciliation (that night was the night I caught them in bed). It just went on and on and on.
It made me hate him.
Later I lost any feeling at all for him. Hopefully if you take a stand now, that won't happen to you.
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Maybe this is enough then, or too much? I want him to know he is totally caught. The "You're Busted" letter: You asked for times and dates on the phone calls, and I will itemize those, but first I wanted to take a look at some of the things you wrote on May 5.
To me:
“Please call me, I'll do what ever it takes.”
“Please don't do this. Let’s do like you said in the letter about writing the letter to OW.”
“You are right about needing to not talk to her.”
“I need to stand up for you and our children.”
“I see that now you’re right, I need to stop all contact with OW. I do need your help with that.”
• “I Promise you
• To not contact OW any more. Can you help me write a letter for this?
• Recommit myself to you forever just like before.
• We need to stand before the Lord and commit to each other and to help each other not lose sight of us again, and talk like we used to do.”
“I feel so bad for being dishonest to you.”
“I failed you as a husband, friend, leader. Please give me a change to restore my honor to you and our children”
“I don't want to divorce you or be separate from my wife.”
“I promise you no more pain.”
“After we get all this stuff worked out let’s plan on some time for ourselves time to reconnect. Maybe the trip to St. Louis for your book - just a thought.”
“I have never felt so alone as I do right now, and so tired. I know how you must have felt the past few months. Oh, I'm so sorry for all this, it’s not fair for you and the children. Please forgive me.”
“If you can find it in your heart to give me a chance I would really appreciate it.”
To her:
“I must tell you that I need to stop contacting you altogether. I must try to fix my marriage with my wife, who I love very much.”
“I'm sorry to get you mixed up with all of this, but for the sake of my family and my wife who has been there for almost 10 yrs. I can't hurt her or you anymore.”
“I can't live two lives anymore - I'm stressed and tired.”
“I can't lie to my wife. In order to fix our marriage we both must be loyal to one another.”
“I have always been very loyal to my wife and I messed up. She has forgiven me, but to fix all of our problems we must become one again and with you in the picture we can't do that.”
“OW, please walk away and don't look back.”
Nine days after you said you promised you would not contact her any more, you called her. Twice. Again the next day you spoke to her twice, and this time I found out because of a message she sent you. You also sent her a text message at this time in response to a text message from her. You said you only talked to her for a minute one time, and it was all business, and you didn’t understand why I was so upset.
May 14 Outgoing call at 9:14 pm – 2 min.
May 14 Outgoing call at 9:20 pm – 10 min.
May 15 Outgoing call at 7:36 pm – 1 min.
May 15 Incoming call at 8:40 pm – 8 min.
This next time around it was ten days before you went back on your word.
May 25 Outgoing call at 7:53 pm – 2 min.
May 26 Outgoing call at 12:43 AM!!!!!! – 2 min.
May 26 Incoming call at 12:45 am – 33 min.
May 26 Outgoing call at 9:45 pm – 2 min.
May 26 Incoming call at 9:46 pm – 16 min.
May 31 Outgoing call at 1:11 pm – 1 min.
May 31 Outgoing call at 8:36 pm – 1 min.
May 31 Incoming call at 8:37 pm – 5 min.
June 3 Outgoing call at 8:36 am – 1 min.
June 3 Incoming call at 8:37 am – 5 min.
June 3 Outgoing call at 1:05 pm – 1 min.
June 3 Incoming call at 1:07 pm – 3 min.
June 3 Incoming call at 1:11 pm – 1 min.
June 3 Incoming call at 1:16 pm – 4 min.
June 3 Outgoing call at 4:09 pm – 1 min.
June 3 Incoming call at 4:12 pm – 36 min.
Additionally, although I do not still have the proof of it, I know you talked to her Saturday night (the 18th) just after midnight for 6 or 7 minutes. The rest will show up on the next phone bill.
You said you had blocked her number. [Your phone company} says it is impossible to block numbers directly from the phones, and you were unable to show me how you had done it.
You said your phone scrolls down through your contact list, and sometimes gets bumped to call the numbers. It may get bumped to call the numbers, but it scrolls through your recent calls list, not the contact list. IF her number had been accidentally bumped, as you said, that could only have happened if she were among your recent calls.
I don’t think you meant for this to happen. I think you missed her and called her just one time, then just one more time, then just a lot of times. But that doesn’t change the fact that you broke your solemn promise, and also lied to me about it many times, and in many different ways. Our marriage will never recover while you continue to live a double life, contacting her and lying about it. I love you and want for our marriage to work, but while you are still in communication with your mistress there is no hope at all for us. My Plan A was nearly flawless, but with hindsight the recovery area was not so well done. Not horrible, but I didn't place enough importance on some of the small-seeming precautions, and that's where at least quite a bit of the problem came from. More for myself than for him, I want to take Round 2 and handle a lot of things differently this time. No holes, no neglect of details, and him putting in a greater effort. He may not end up taking this any more seriously than the first time around, but I am willing to take that chance in order to try my part again. Maybe it is just my own fog, but I still want to give him another chance, just a far sterner one than before. A good portion of the 'teeth' in this situation will come from a clause in the recovery information packet that is based on the Contact Bag concept, but a bigger, badder Contact Bag. If, after all this, there is even the slightest whiff of contact, (and yes, I know he would go to even greater lengths to hide it), the ONLY way I would even THINK of staying with him is if we moved out of state as SH suggests. Anything after that would be a one-way ticket to the big D, no matter what feelings I still had left. As has been said before, it all comes down to what each person can take. Those are my limits, and I will go that far and no farther. This is not redrawing lines in the sand, this is what I have planned since the middle of May when I realized I might need a road map to deal with more contact if it happened. Some of the details may have shifted a bit, but I have been sticking to the big landmarks. Regarding exposure, I will bow to the wisdom of those wiser than I and get busy with it.
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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Neak -
I think you may be a little bit in the fog, like LM says. The letter you posted has a lot of DJ's in it. It is just my opinion, but I think you need to go dark and have him move out.
The letter leaves it open for him to say things like - no, I didn't call her at 4:35 (it was 4:36), and on and on. When you start pinpointing everything, they just deny and argue. Better to tell him that he has not complied with NC, and he is OUT.
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Nooooooooooo...I don't think you should go into this "You're Busted" at all.
He knows what he has done
You know what he has done
He doesn't need you to prove it to him.
He doesn't need educating on what he promised.
He already knows.
Of this long laundry list, he is sure to find one point and argue it. Try to make YOU wrong.
He is who he is. He will change or he won't. But going through all of this is not going to help anything.
Short and to the point. He messed up, he's out, or whatever his consequences are. Whatever it is you plan to do.
For right now ~ no talk.
No discussion.
Just action.
Susan
Money can buy you a fine dog, but only love can make him wag his tail.
~ Kinky Friedman
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Whether fog or not, I am not at the place of telling him to leave without giving him any other option. Skipping the itemization and moving straight into action is very sensible, though. If no definite PLAN to get rid of the OW for good, for the rest of his life then PLAN B! This phrase of Mimi's really sums up where I am. If...then. I still want the if. If he takes this chance and then wastes it, I will still know what my next step is.
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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Company coming, must run. Will try to peek in later though. Thanks to all.
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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I wrote to you @nbg since I couldn't get through to you by phone.
t&l
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Neak;
My FWH was the ultimate cake-eater, highly addicted to the FOW, there were a couple of false recoveries... This was my story. I was heavily coached here by many veterans...from PLAN A and eventually to PLAN B.....
I am not saying that I have all the answers. I just want to share my experience after having WALKED IN YOUR SAME SHOES...
IMHO, it is necessary to write another PBL. I agree with the others that it should be short and to the point with no further conversation with him about this.
Why the PBL? My FWH used it as a roadmap, read over it, remembered verbatim phrases from it.. It is supposed to be a LOVE LETTER.... So when he was negotiating coming back to me, I could refer him back to the letter.. I remember MM reminding me how he was referring back to the letter. MM was right on about that!!
Your WH sounds a lot like mine. My H listens to my words.I am continually shocked by his recall of things that I have said years ago. I noticed how your WH likes for you to read to him. Maybe you can repeat some of those BIBLE verses in your new PBL.. It is important to think about what is meaningful in your own particular situation...
That other letter that you are planning on sending the BUSTED letter has too much information for someone in the FOG. Also, remember that these WSes are in different places at different times. What is true today for them was not true last week. They are not logical or reasonable so don't try to use that with them. SHORT AND TO THE POINT. MAKE IT SIMPLE. He is TEMPORARILY INSANE...DRUG ADDICTED.....
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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I do tend to be a bit wordy, even when I'm trying to be brief. The busted letter sure felt good to write, even if it is TMI for a fogged individual. Actually, ditto the OW letter. So the one point everybody agrees on is, whatever it is, KEEP IT SHORT!
Well, I'm on the clock, so must get busy for now. Thank you, Mimi, for sharing your experiences, and I think you have a great point about the Bible verses and him liking me to read to him. And this will take place face to face this time. (Tonight.)
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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Hi everybody!
This is notso's special, wonderful, and awesome sister here. Notso asked me to post and let everyone know what is happening right now so you can tune in for all the gory details later on this evening.
WH was working today and notso suspected that OW would be coming from WH's suspicious behavior. Then notso's brother went to help out with the work. Of course WH is not so foolish as to have OW there when BS's own brother is coming. Oh dear. He is.
So neaky is on her way down to surprise them. What she says will doubtless depend on the moment's inspiration, but she said to tell everyone that she is very calm and in a very strong place. Awesome and amazing were her exact words.
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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Thanks for the update, notso's awesome sister. It sounds like she has lots of family support. That is soooo important.
We'll be praying for her.
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I am on pins and needles.
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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not so---praying for you..............
what we do in life......echoes in eternity!
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t&l here with the Readers' Digest Condensed Version of the Sordid Saga, dateline 6-27-05. Awesome sis (you_neaker? neaksis?) is fixing supper for 6 starving juveniles while NotSo goes home to prepare for tonight's smackdown. Neak says she won't be able to post anything at all before late tonight, if she still has the energy to go online after the alien is remanded to the mother ship. She still wanted to give a little update of the afternoon, though without actually taking the time to sit at the keyboard. Voila! Neak's Fingers have arrived. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> OW was not physically present when Neak arrived, since it took about an hr. to get there after the phone call from her brother alerting her to the infestation. WH was overheard by Neak's brother phoning OW as Neak drove up, and telling her not to come back because Neak <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> had just arrived. He then met Neak with the hastily-concocted story of how OW was there when he arrived and he "couldn't make her leave." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Bad, wicked stalker. (Maybe instead of being the poor man's Hillary Swank, she's really the poor man's Glenn Close! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) He showed himself capable of some significant multitasking, proving he was able able to cry and lie simultaneously. (Unfortunately, he couldn't lie convincingly, but hey--you can't have everything!) Neak didn't cry. She was calm, firm, and in control of her emotions. Can anybody spell "P-O-W-E-R-S-H-I-F-T"? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> When he arrives home tonight, she is going to ask him to leave and not come back until he has a firm plan of his own on how to get OW out of their lives. That's actually kinder than I hoped she'd be, but, to repeat myself--hey, you can't have everything! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Awesome sis chose her confrontation outfit, which I saw when she returned home tonight. She was wearing a flirty little red sundress, a pushup bra, and a glowing robe of power. She has always been a strong person, but now she is powerful besides, and she knows it. I'm afraid of her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Especially after she said she wanted to discuss my personal boundaries with me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I've always been the family Tough Broad. I'm going to have to start running harder and faster to stay ahead, what with these two women on my tail..and that's hard to do, at my age and weight!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> At any rate, if she sticks to her guns, Somebody (and we all know who!) is in for a BIG surprise when she doesn't cave...and not a moment too soon, either. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Warning to Neak--NO SPELUNKING TONIGHT. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> t&l
Last edited by thndrnlitng; 06/28/05 01:33 AM.
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Mom, call me if you see this by 8. Pebbles, can I live at your house for a while? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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Thanks for the prayers, everybody, & WH is running very scared right now while I glow serenely. He'll be home any second...
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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Neak - Hang in there girl - my money is on you.
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