Hi,

I just wanted to know, since I see alot going on in the family (the men of course). I notice how it hurts their family, but they really don't seem to care and only want to have fun. Is there really a way someone can be cured of this "disease"? If so, then how?

eerie, I don't think cheating is a "disease," it is a behavior. And there are women cheaters, too. But yes, there are many people here who have cheated in the past who have made amends and not done it again.

Well, it is MY OPINION, that your chances of "true recovery" are FAR worse with a serial cheater than not. It is my belief that a man/woman who cheats (and gets caught) and then CHEATS again (knowing full well that he/she is risking essentially "their life") usually DON't find "Cure". I am probably alone on this, but I can NOT buy the standard BS line around here of the "disease" and the "addiction" totally encompassing the WS behavior and REPEATED CHOICES TO BETRAY A SPOUSE. Can't do it sorry. If a WS cheats REPEATEDLY, they are IMHO of weak character and in ALL LIKELIHOOD will eventually do it again. It may not be tomorrow, or the next day, BUT IT WILL PROBABLY HAPPEN AGAIN (when the chance presents itself). Notice I use "probably". Obviously this is not the case for all, but despite all of the "principles" and Plans, and strategies, etc.. many people are just weak and they are selfish. I hate to say "once a cheater always a cheater"...but if the shoe fits.......what do you say?

LM

LM, I agree with you that it would be hogwash to say that cheating is a "disease." But there really CAN BE an addictive component to it. Not in a physical sense, but more akin to an infatuation in a psychological sense.

Agree with the rest of what you say, this program is not designed to fix a character problem that is present in serial cheaters, but rather a marital problem. Cheating is an aberration of character for most of our resident former cheaters, it ain't an aberration for a serial cheater, but a way of life. BIG DIFFERENCE.

I will add that I think anyone change if they want to, though.

Errie,

It is my belief, like the two posters before me, that the only hope for a "constant cheater" is grace.

Sometimes when we have lost EVERYTHING and there is nothing left to lose, we "see the light".

It's the same as bottoming out for the alcoholic. Change is possible, but usually only comes when the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change.

You've heard the song "Amazing Grace", well this is what it is about.

For you all there is to do is get out (if it is your WH you are asking about) and possibly the pain of losing you will be what it takes for him to begin the upward climb of change.

But then you will have all this baggage to deal with, the kind of baggage that being with a serial cheater wrecks on your very being and life.

It sucks, and it isn't fair. It isn't even your fault, but you are left with the broken pieces, while they either get to bottom out and grace finds them, or they go on destroying someone else.

I think it sucks all the way around, and sometimes I wish I was the bad, serial cheating SOB who can somehow find grace and become a "new" saved person.

"I was lost, but now I'm found..." blah, blah, blah.

Little vent here, can you tell?

My advice, get out and find a good man who can help you become the very, special, beautiful, wonderful woman that you surely are.

"Well, it is MY OPINION, that your chances of "true recovery" are FAR worse with a serial cheater than not. It is my belief that a man/woman who cheats (and gets caught) and then CHEATS again (knowing full well that he/she is risking essentially "their life") usually DON't find 'Cure'" LM

Errie, LM. ML, Weaver, et. al., I'm afraid that my situation exactly mirrors what LM alluded to. My wife's infidelity was a "matter of character" and not "circumstance". I'm unable to link to my original thread(s) on the "old" forum, so I'll just breifly summarize...5 physical affairs over 26 years, 4 physical affairs within 22 months of d-day (multiple EA since 2000), first affair resulted in pregnancy and subsequent abortion. All that notwithstanding, and despite having it hammered into me with (several) well-padded 2x4's that ..."you can change attitude, you can change behavior, but YOU CAN NOT CHANGE CHARACTER", I embraced fully ALL of the MB principles and attempted marital recovery.

I'll never know if we would have been able to beat the odds. In the end, it was (unfortuantely) exactly as LM indicated...she (literally) risked her life...and DIDN'T cure! A health care professional who "refused to fear" STD's and never used protection. My wife (I'll no longer use the FWW or WW label) died of pneumonia! Her immune system destroyed.

I was hopeful that counseling would be for her what MarriageBuilders has been for me...a catalyst for change. Unfortunately, our recover was cut short on April 5th! Now I'll never know...

Ron, I am so very sorry to hear this. I haven't seen you in awhile and had no idea. What a horrible horrible waste of life. And how sad that you endured the fallout.

Hi ML

(Do not wish to "threadjack") But wanted to respond to [this] thread. I've been here everyday pulling strength (and encouragement/courage) from everyone's words.

I don't really have an answer to errie's question re. "Is there really a way someone can be cured of this 'disease'?. I'm not sure the mental health community has a definitive answer. But, I believe all things are possible through love. And so continued the roller coaster ride, and fought what I consider to be the "good fight". I took a vow when I married her, and I took a vow back in July when I returned to this forum. In the end, I kept both.

I guess in the end, every BS has to survey their own heart and decide for themselves whether the fight to save a serial adulter is worth the effort. HARLEY freely admits that the MB program is NOT designed for those fighting serial infidelity, but his priciples and ideas (when properly applied) are so sound that whatever path is ultimately chosen, positive change of someone is inevitable. So it has been for me (and so many others here).

I don't regret my decision. My changes have been nothing short of profound. What I do regret is that I'll never know if WE could have succeeded!

I read your story this a.m. Ron, I want to say that I am very sorry too.

And I know from my own life that when faced with someone seriously flawed in character, all you can do is change yourself. You can try until the cows come home but in the end it is only through grace that another is changed.

People come here looking for ways to save their marriage, looking for knowledge and support. And with that, they find strength. The strength to continue to love and uphold the vows they made, regardless of their spouse.

But yes, I think if someone is bound and determined to uphold their vows and remain married than the MB principles, used with a solid Plan A/Plan B would be the way to go, serial cheater or one time offender.

And who knows who will recover, who will change? No one knows that. So maybe the best thing to do is to try, for as long as you can anyway.

For me I think I am becomming less tolerant of repeat offenders if only because of the incredible devestation I see of the BS and families. Hence the cynical reply.

I know people can change, but at what cost to those in their lives.

I still say if there is anyway the BS can walk away and start over, than they should. Unfortunately most can't. (myself included) They are forced to continue to try for as long as they need to, to become whole again within their selves. Maybe it is because of the vows they took or maybe it is something else which keeps them with that person.

You say you have changed profoundly due to MB and I understand that.

Again Ron, I am terribly sorry for you and your families loss. And I am sorry you story ended to soon.

God bless you Ron.