I was just wondering why I have not found much about what any BS's are doing to help repair their marriages. I have seen plenty about what the WS should do...needs to do... but what about the other?
I don't know how many times I have seen WS's talk about problems in their marriage. But I don't recall seeing much about the BS's opinion of the condition of the PRE-affair marriage. Nor, what they have tried to "fix" on their end. For example, if communication was a problem that gave the WS a so called "reason" for falling into an affair, what did the BS do to help remedy the situation. That sort of thing.
Somewhere I read that the WS should be greatful that they were given a second chance. Actually, I think both parties should feel that way. That they are able to repair the damage that an affair can cause. As long as both parties are willing participants, yes, they should thank God for the healing chance.

What BS's do is called EXPOSURE, PLAN A, PLAN B, intermingled with RADICAL HONESTY, POJA and other Basic Concepts

It is highly suggested (by the admins) that you read the material on this website prior to participating in the boards.

edited to add this from the home page:

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There are hundreds (thousands if printed) of very informative and free web pages waiting for you read behind this home page. You'll want to know where to find the help you need.

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Ba,
I have read all of the information on this site. I have been around for over 2 years now. I'm not talking about what they do in response to the affair. I'm asking if when their spouse told them of previous problems, did they react to that, or ignore it. I am asking how did the FBS help repair any existing issues.

That's a pretty generalized question that presumes that ALL WS did tell them of previous problems. Often they didn't. Nor are there always problems in a marriage to begin with. There were none in mine. Often there are none.

I would suggest you ask this question individually to whatever BS you seem to be interested in. Because it is impossible to answer such a generalized question as every situation is different.

FBS's as well as FWS's undertake a never ending lesson of meeting each others emotional needs (as identified by the Emotional Needs Questionaire ) and the elimination of Love Busters Again, accompanied with other of Harley's Basic Concepts the guidelines are in place for 'maintaining' a healthy marriage.

Maintenance is never ending...by either spouse.

Melody,
It was a general question directed at noone in particular, and everyone in general that it "might" apply to. But more importantly, it was to answer a question to myself.

Thank you for the reply.
Nor

Ok then. Perhaps the better question would be, that given the basic tenets of this site (as you mentioned above), how many FBS's put those ideas to practical use IF told by spouse of an existing problem.


Thanks

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My guess would be nearly all of them, provided that the 'problem' is within reason. That's how recovery begins. Those that don't are probably not "F"BS's.

Understand that a WS must put these ideas to practical use also. The FWS is just as responsible for the health of the marriage.

Ba,
Oh. I absolutely agree with your statement about the FWS taking partial responsibility. On this, we can agree.
I have just seen so many BS's state what their FWS needed to do to "repair", and just hadn't seen much about what, if anything, the FBS's felt that they also needed to work on. I guess I just won't find many who will admit that, "yes, I was a distant husband, non communicative", or, "yeah, I put off having sex with my husband, putting him last"... and that I've tried to work on this. That was basically what I was looking for. But thanks so much anyways.

Nor

Partial responsibility from a WS. You are kidding right? How about full responsibility.

How about dealing with the problems in the marriage before having an A?

BTW I'm an FWW.

There is a wonderful thread here about WS taking responsibility which should be bumped again.

Jen

Hi NorExp,

I think that's a very good question!

I have a general answer for how many BS's and FBS's put them to practical use.....

ALL of the BS's and FBS's who are serious about addressing their 50% responsibility for the State of the Marriage prior to the affair put them to practical use.

However, it doesn't take being told by their spouse for them to do this. In fact, many of us don't get any info from our spouses for a long time. So we usually have to figure it out for ourselves, with the help of FBS's who have gone successfully before us.

Sometimes it takes a little while for a BS or FBS to decide if they want to get serious about addressing their 50% responsibility in the State of the Marriage issues, just as sometimes it takes a little while for a WS to decide if they want to end their affair and restore their marriage.

If you want to see BS's and FBS's in action, just start reading threads. There are quite a few here who have made the decision and are getting practical advice of how to do it.

Take care

Two years, and you don't realize that one of the first things that a BS is advised to do is start looking at his or her contribution to making the M vulnerable.

Curious. All your posts are about this same thing. What's the story? Why the crusade to accuse BS of sanctimony?

GC

Hi, NorExp.

Quote:
===================================
I guess I just won't find many who will admit that, "yes, I was a distant husband, non communicative", or, "yeah, I put off having sex with my husband, putting him last"... and that I've tried to work on this.
===================================

All those are fine reasons for a bad marriage, none of them justify an affair, however.

Each of us is 100% responsible for our own actions on this planet. Most of the worlds religions are predicated on that assumption.

Even if someone has a gun to my head, telling me I have to do something or they will kill me, I still have a choice.

An affair is a choice. No more, no less, and no one's fault but the chooser.

All the best,
Gimble

Hi Norexp

Part of plan A for a BS is to address any of the unmet ENs that can be gleaned, and to avoid LBs.

A plan A that works by definition must mean that many of the contributions to a happy marriage that may have been lacking from the BS prior to the WS affair have been addressed.

Also a WS is typically afflicted by 'fog' or addiction-behaviour that prevents the WS from seeing the value of the correct behaviour during an affair and during withdrawal.

And TBH once the affair is over, the FWS has most of the hard work to do.

All IMO of course.

Bob

In response to the above statement, I can say I did. Maybe not as well as I could have, then again neither did the Xws. As a WS my H did not work on our M. As an Xws he did some work but not enough, as a recoverying H, he has learned that most of the work on recovery lies on his shoulders.

As for pre A and during the A, I learned a lot and made my changes. They were not as much as I had thought I needed. See the WS try to put more on the BS' shoulder than s/b. The WS will continue to do so since that relieves the WS of some of the guilt which allows them to carry on the A. Also it allows the Ws to use the BS to enable the A.

It is critical that the BS make changes. Not for the WS, though but for the BS and family. A BS can not help a WS. A BS can help an Xws a bit. A BS can be a real asset to recoverying spouse.

An Xws can help their BS by reassuring the BS with words and deeds that the Xws is truly repentant. There are times where the Xws will have to endure the BS living through the triggers of the A. Recovery is more of the BS time to heal. The WS must also heal but the WS must share the healing time with the BS and family. After all, it was the WS who allowed the damage into the family. The WS should not go off scott free without responsiblity to repair the damage caused by the A. That is why recovery takes longer.

Back to my situation, after I learned where I needed to change, I learned I needed to do less for my spouse and more for myself. As a major giver, I learned that my giving was not helping but instead allowed the spouse to become lazy in his duties. He didn't need to care because I took take of almost everything. NO exaggeration, I did a lot. Recovery for us meant I do less and allow him to do more. It meant living with less expectations and lower my standards of how things got done. It meant determining my personal boundaries and implementing them.

Hope this answers your question.

BTW since you have been here 2 years, have you read any of the books by Dr Harley? Take a look at Givers/Takers and His needs/Her needs. I for one would like to here why you are here.

take care,
L.

Wow..um...my biggest thought after reading this whole thread is...

"Are we reading the same board?!?!?" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I'll admit to not having been reading much in the last month or so...but before that....

I will, for now, exclude the posters who are WS or FWS on the board and focus on BS. Most BS here...in my view..do MORE for the marriage and work harder towards recovery than the WS do. Most of the BS here...their WS aren't interested in reconciling no matter WHAT the BS does and so most of the BS have taken on the majority of the responsibility towards trying to repair the marriage. This, despite the fact that their WS are totally unresponsive...this, despite the fact that their WS broke their heart and continue in the affair or were able to justify the whole thing away.

I will go out on a limb here and say that most BS are not told of problems that are apparently in the marriage. They may be aware of *something*..but most are not aware of the extent of the WSs' feelings. Many BS here have conflict avoiding WSs who continue to assure the BS that everything is o'kay. And even more BS...after the affair...are told..."It's me...not you."

In my case..I was aware that the marriage could be better but I did not think it was as bad as my spouse apparently did. My spouse never told me he was unhappy in the marriage at all. And yes, I was working on the things that I felt could be better. He has an affair and suddenly tells me he's been unhappy for "a very very long time". News to me. Post affair..he would still not point out to me what was wrong in the marriage. It was always abstract things..."It's me, not you." "I've always had doubts", "I've never loved you like I should", "Something has always been missing." All of these statements are abstract and give one no basis for working out what the real problems were. I had to figure it all out myself...and this was in the midst of a broken heart and my whole world turning upside down. I had to deal with rewritten history on his part....in the end, because of his affair, I had to do ten times the amount of work I had to do, than if he had just told me before his affair what was going on. I not only had to change my own behavoir and attitude...but I also had to deal with lingering thoughts of his lover, had to deal with the rewritten history..had to figure out everything by myself, etc etc.

I would say that my situation is the rule, rather than the exception. Most BS, with hindsight, can point at the things they could've done differently. Oftentimes it's lack of boundaries that cause the problems (as in Orchid's case). But before the affair...and even for a time after...a BS is left totally bewildered on how all this happened...why it happened, etc. I would say that the rule, rather than the exception, is that for those BS who want to recover and rebuild their marriage...those BS take on the lionshare's responsibility of the work needed.

Again...are we reading the same board???

Nor,

Most of the posters here are BS, the vast majority of them are interested in fixing their marriages. People are all over the place in their recovery. The early stages are hard, and if you read post from people in that stage you will see a lot of anger, blaming, and yes sanctimony. These are normal responses to trauma. After a period of time a lot of the anger and blaming begin to wane and is generally replaced by sadness. The posts during this period are the hardest for me to read personally . . . I can take the anger. Anyway this is the time that most BS begin to examine the marriage and to try to see to what extent their actions let to the marriage being vulnerable to an affair. The BS didn’t cause the WS to do what they did, the WS own that.

Frankly, I know the reasons for my affair. If my wife behaved differently to me for all those years when I was way down on her list of priorities, if I felt that I was valued and wanted would I have made different choices? I probably would have. Did the years of neglect and indifference cause me to have an affair? No. I desired a connection and couldn’t figure out how to get that from my wife and I turned elsewhere to get that need filled. Frankly, if I had the choice to make over I would have divorced, but I didn’t. I think I would have been a whole lot easier and healthier for all involved if a clean and amicable divorce was pursued. Instead, we will always have this between us and it will affect the way we care for each other.

Kiwi,
I don't believe that the WS would carry the full responsibility for the problems in the marriage. Certainly for making the poor choice of dealing with them. And absolutely for not making their needs known. Therein lies the desperate need for communication on both parts.

Thanks for replying

Nor

GC,
I had just been reading through the site the last couple of days, and had noticed a bit of tempered anger towards FWS's and thinking that "problems" ( NOT THE AFFAIR ) might be attributed to both parties, why it only sounded like the WS needed to do this...and do that... but not about what the BS was working on.
I hadn't meant for it to seem as though I was on a crusade. I've just felt that some of the posts were somewhat harsh, and on that observation, decided to post my query.

Thanks,
Nor

Hi NorExp,

If you're reading a WS's or FWS's thread, you will mostly see what a WS or FWS needs to do.

If you're reading a BS's or FBS's thread, you will mostly see what a BS or FBS needs to do.

Mixed in these threads are what they may or may not be seeing in their spouse. There are a few reasons for this and others here would be much better able to explain it. Most of it is to evaluate how effective they are at all the things they are doing. It's really about the poster, not the spouse who isn't here.

Also, most times the posts are not full of all the things the BS, FBS, WS, FWS are doing, they're usually about the things the poster is having trouble with and trying to figure out why and what to do from there.

Did this make sense and/or answer what you're asking?