I hope you folks don't mind me asking this question. I have been wanting to come over here for a long time now. It has been 15 months since d-day. For those who don't know my story H was "in-love" with his office manager. When I found out about the EA part I told him she has to go, or we're done. He fired her and NC began the end of 3/04. Withdrawal was awful and he had her on a giant pedestal. Surprisingly he now really can't stand her, and sees through her lies and manipulation. She was a predatory OW.

We have steadily been working towards recovery. Compared to many FWSs H has been pretty good. We've talked to Steve Harley on and off until February, and now are in MC. We went to a MB weekend. He went to IC for a year. Yet, it has been slow going as far as him reintegrating back into our M. He claims much is because of his guilt and remorse. I, on the other hand, felt a lot of feeling for him in spite of everything. However, because he was holding back on really showing me romantic love, my feelings have lessened.

Now for my question. I sometimes wonder if people can really get over infidelity. I have even wondered if I would have been better off if he had just dumped me for OW. I'm sure I am in the grass is greener way of thinking. Should I just count my blessings and be grateful? Did any of you have the option of recovery and chose a D anyway? What is the reality of getting a D?

I hope I didn't offend anyone here. I just thought you folks might be able to give me a dose of reality, good or bad. H wants us to recover. I do, but I still don't feel Med. I took my ring off months ago and am not ready to put it back on yet. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! CV

I don't know if you have kids, but if so, divorce is the worst possible alternative. When my H left us, I thought divorce would be horrible, but I was wrong - it is much, much worse than that.

CV, My knee jerk reaction is "if only my WH had been like yours" but I realize I'm not in your shoes, just like you're not in mine. I'm absolutely certain you would not have felt better off if your H had dumped you for the OW. That feeling is completely devastating.

Have you read the Recovery Board? I know, from what I've read there (and here), that recovery isn't easy. Most of us came to MB hoping for recovery, but those of us who ended up here on Divorced/Divorcing weren't able to recover our marriages.

Some WS's, myself included, were the ones who finally filed for divorce, but only after exhausting all hope of recovery.

Infidelity is devastating, whatever the outcome. Nevertheless, we can all recover eventually, with or without our WS or FWS.

I'm walking out the door to go pick my son up. If you have children divorce is awful. WE are almost at the two year mark and there has been no giving in my former wife at all. She is as angry at me today as she was then and I have tried my best to stay out of her life for the most part.

But on the positive side. I had the pleasure the other day of seeing OM's wife. She opted, rather made a decision to stay in for the long haul and she did say that today they have a better marriage than any of the previous 22 years.

D-Day was June of 2003 and I know that both of them struggled , struggled hard for many months. OM's wife accidently ran into my former in a parking lot one day, about one year after D-day. She said her initial urge was just to run her over. Her husband and I met not long after that because she was struggling with the anniversary of D-day. With support and encouragement from me and their MC they survived.

But she said the real turing point was when after almost 18 months of her FWS doing everything in his power to prove that he was honest, accounting for his time, making her a priority in her life that she finally realized that she had to choose to trust him. Up until that point she had always help back on that 100% support that her husband needed.

Yes, but you can never go back to what you had. The two of you must choose to move forward to something better than before.



Like one of the others posted. There are many of us who prayed long and hard for a FWS like yours. If there are children involved, then no, you nor them would be better off if you he had dumped you for the OW.





Is there any particular reason you took the ring off? You say I still don't feel Med. (?) Sorry, I do not know what Med. is. Feelings can many times mislead us. I know from reading here and listening to many others that the women are much feeling that us males. Are you waiting for that feeling to return? Does your love for you spouse depend on those feelings?

I know that you are in a tough position but it sounds as if you FWS has tried to commit and participate in the recovery process. I would have to say yes, count your blessings and be grateful.

Oh, as for the guilt and remorse he says he feels. Having talked with the OM in our stitch I would say that could well be true. Even after their efforts and energy devoted to their recovery he still states that he struggles with the guilt. But I also understand that forgiving ourselves is probably the hardest thing each of have to do.

Praying God's peace in your life and wisdom for the right decision.

i am sure that divorce is the worst thing i have ever experienced....stay together and work thru it all and ths will be the best for the both of you....been there

Thanks to all of you for responding and not whacking me with a giant 2x4. I truly appreciate the opportunity to have this discussion and have been hesitant to venture over here because in the scheme of things I know our recovery isn't horrible, as compared to many other stories I have seen here. I would respond to each one of you, but I have no idea how. I finally learned how to read everyones' posts and even do quotes on the old site right before they changed it. So if you don't mind I'll try and further explain what's going on with me.

Please forgive me if you have somehow heard my story over these months. I'll try to briefly recap the past 2 plus years. In August/2002 the circumstances of our lives began to shift. In the late 90s we began 18 months of MC for a crisis in our lives with the results being a very close M. Better than ever before. I need to say that because it is one of the things that makes H's infidelity that much harder. Our M didn't suck.

In 8/02 my 15 yr. old nephew died, 2 weeks later my uncle died, around Thanksgiving my FIL was in and out of the hospital and he died in 3/03. Meanwhile my dad, who already was in crappy health and lived alone, really began to grow sicker and sicker. He dealt with this through denial and avoidance, and I was the primary caregive. So I basically was watching my dad kill himself, saw him living in an unhealthy way, was constantly stressed to the max, and had no control over the situation. Plus we had 2 teenage boys that weren't doing great in school, I'm sure because of the losses. They were very close to my nephew and my dad. I also was working my butt off trying to finish up an internship for my grad degree.

When H's dad died he told me he loved me and I thought of him as my best friend. I began IC to try to deal with the stress, which was bringing me down, and I wanted to be there for H and the boys. One month after his dad died I think the EA began with OW. I literally saw him dismantling our M and tried all the time to connect. He had locked the door on me. Cut me off emotionally and sexually for 9 months. Meanwhile my dad ended up in the hospital in 8/03 and died 2 weeks later. H totally didn't support me during that time. While I was going to the hospital twice a day he was screwing OW. How do I know that? I found her love letters which talked about how great a sexual encounter was while my dad was dying in the hospital.

Here's where it gets really good. H is a funeral director and our families go back generations. The 1st time I was in his funeral home was in the 3rd grade. The lovely OW was planning on becoming a FD and was going to do her apprecticeship at H's FH. I of course supported her. In most cases only family members get right into this business like she would have done. She was present during the entire funeral process for my dad. She was the door greeter at his wake. H invited her to our home in-between visiting hours to eat with our family and friends. And my worst memory is her pushing my dad's casket in church. I was triggered today because I helped H at the FH this morning. The offices are upstairs and the entire A was happening there. The building where all my dead realtives have gone through.

I did a great Plan A, and in spite of all the above did feel love for H. Then around 9/04 the giver in me began to fade and I remember wanting to be Plan Aed. Yes, in many ways H has been great. He was horribly addicted and he pretty much cut the A off cold turkey. The OW ran his office and his expartner, who he had been with for about 16 yrs., left at the same time. H was really screwed. But he did it anyway.

Sorry, I'm not sure why I'm rambling here. I think in Plan A or B it's hard as He**, but the adrenalen(sp?) is just flowing. It's fight or flight. Recovery is a different ballgame. The sexual betrayal has always been way worse than the EA part for me. Maybe the reason I say I wish he would have dumped me for her is that I always knew he'd be miserable if he did. The EA was such a bunch of crap. Fantasyland, as we all know. Beyond forgiveness, in recovery we have to fight the images of our Ss with the OP. At least some of us do. H and I got back to SF pretty fast, but then he began to subtly hold back because of fears. The area I've needed the most healing in, is the area he has helped me the least in. He literally couldn't kiss me for months, and I know he kissed OW all the time. I think it's shame, but that doesn't build me up. I guess days like today I just wonder if it would be easier being alone. Not having thoughts of how could this person who I loved and trusted so totally have screwed me over. And why am I staying with this person? By the way, I treat him very well. I don't walk around LBing him all the time.

I know our boys would not be better off if we D. But we haven'r reclaimed the romantic love yet. H keeps telling me he does feel it for me, but he's not expressing it in the way I need it. I, on the other hand, am growing weary of the whole thing. Like after 15 months shouldn't I be feeling this love from the man who says he's so grateful I didn't dump him? I'm beginning to fell pathetic, and I had very high self esteem, even after d-day.

Why don't I wear my ring? I truthfully don't feel Med. Legally yes, but spiritually no. I know many BSs aren't like me. However, when he broke every one of our vows, the M contract just become null and void for me. At some point we will both need to recommit.

We just had our 20 yr. anniversary. H acted so happy that we have overcome so much and made it to 20. I felt very sad and thought, "We almost made it to 20." So I'm here on this D forum for that dose of reality. I obviously still have not reached the acceptance stage. I'm working on it. I hate that this A is now a part of our M history. Sometimes the thought of maybe starting over with someone knew just seems nice. I also realize I might always be single if I D H. I just turned 50 so I'm sure the pickins might be kind of slim out there. Sorry for this very long ramble. If I should be grateful I need to know why. Again, I really apologize if I'm causing any of you pain by my whining. You can 2x4 me now, just be nice about it. Thanks again! CV

I understand the feelings you are going through. I was also married almost 20 years (this June) and I am about the same age as you. However I do not have children. You really do have to think about that; I don't.

In my case, the circumstances are somewhat different than yours - no A. But, I still feel betrayed (by porno, avoidance, deceit, etc.) - and even if it were possible, I have no energy or interest in being with him anymore. I can't express emotions towards someone I do not trust and whom I do not feel cares about my wellbeing. Intimacy requires (for me) the ultimate in trust. It puts me in a totally vulnerable position when I take the risk to really let myself feel and act out my feelings. I simply can't do that anymore. Not with him; perhaps not with anyone, as there is little trust left in me.

The last year and a half was much like you describe - trying to hang on and work things out. It was empty and draining, all in all. Still I would have kept trying if he had been willing. Since he wasn't, I had no choice, but I now think that was a good thing for me.

Nor do I want to be with anyone, quite frankly. Having been in two marriages - spent the majority of my life married - I feel like the only times I was able to pursue my own work was when I was single. I feel an aching inside to be the best I can be, and that was just not possible when I was married. Perhaps its the men I was involved with, but for me it has been a choice between having a life or achieving anything for myself, and being married. The two could not co-exist for me. I still have lots of things I want to do - personally and professionally - and really am not willing to put them on the back burner again.

Thanks for the additional comment Deja Vu.

I had the following thought after I posted last night. I ended up on ADs as a result of the major trauma the A threw me into. My physician prescribed the AD, but I ended up seeing a psychiatrist to fine tune the meds. I remember saying to her something like, "I feel like these are my choices. Choice # 1, stay Med to a man who betrayed me and hurt me more than anyone I know. Try to recover from the damage done and hope we can both love each other again. Choice #2, get Ded, put our boys' lives in turmoil, screw us up financially, and maybe never be in a R again. Great choices!" She replied, "At least you have a choice!"

I just want you all to know that I realize maybe most of you fought very hard for your M's and wanted to have the choice that I have. Again, I apologize if I have been insensitive. I read in an A book, or maybe a MB friend said this, that for those of us who do have a choice we need to face the choice of getting a D also. Maybe I am just finally, after 15 months, indulging in looking at that choice. I also was honest with H and told him that I posted to you all. I pointed out that when he was all screwed up after his dad died, and felt unhappy in our M, I wish he would have come to me before starting his A. That is what I'm doing with him. Letting him know I'm kind of screwed up right now. No matter where we all end up as a result of infidelity, none of it is fun.

Thanks again, and I wish you all peace and future happiness. I have 2 cousins who Ded because of infidelity. Both of them did end up Med again to great people and are very happy. CV

CV55,

I may not be the best person to respond. I am DV already. I also was unfaithful briefly some years ago.

But in answer to "can you get past the infidelity". I do think I'm qualified to answer this. YES...you can.

My now XH had a 20-month, in-my-face affair back in the early '90's. He was very open about how he felt about her and what they did together. It was almost like it was a big game to him. I stuck it out in the house for 9 months, then separated and moved out with my kids to an apartment for another 6 months before I finally was convinced that I felt nothing but hatred for him and filed for DV.

About halfway through or waiting period, some things happened between him and the OW and the affair ended abruptly. He begged me to not go through with the DV. I put it on hold for another 6 months while I watched his every move to make sure he was for real.

We moved back together 2 years from when the affair started. And while it did take a long time to get past the fear that he was with her again every time he was late coming home, our marriage survived that awful period, and in normal circumstances (instead of the alcholic/porn-filled ones we experienced), the marriage probably would have still been going strong today.

No, it will never be the same, and at first the M isn't held together by emotional love (at least not in my situation). It was the commitment I made...the vows...and the belief that staying married was a lot better choice than ending it, that made me stay initially. I don't regret even now that I stayed at that time. I just wish we'd done things differently once we got back together.

And having gone through the DV now after his second affair, I will attest to that process being a lot worse than the recovery from the first affair.

I know in my mind that I'm a lot better off without my XH, because of his alcohol/drug/porn/anger issues. But given a "normal" male, I'd give anything to be in your shoes.

Hi CV.

It was kind of a shock to see you posting over here and a little sad too. I feel that way about me reading here also.


Well here comes the questions, you didn’t really expect anything else did you? So what is the next move with hubby? Are you just tired of all this? Are you just venting? Do you still want to be married? Are you really contemplating divorce? Maybe a trial separation first?

I think it is important that you told your husband that you are reading the divorcing forum; maybe he will finally put down his own guilt and sadness to try to help you move beyond his infidelity.

On the bright side, the sun is shining and the rain has stopped: it is still cold for late April, but I’ll take that over the depressing grey that was our weekend.


Totally non-MB, but . . . I think you may need to jerk his chain a little. I don’t think that he has really had to deal with the full repercussions that his infidelity could/should have caused. He went from the arms of his lover back to his loving wife. I think CV should start the old 180 and make herself scarce. By new clothes, different perfume, different hairstyle. Make excuses to be “away” and do it as often as you can considering that you have teenage boys. I think husband need to be made aware that you are about to walk . . .

Lordslady, thanks for responding to my question. It really is helpful for me to hear the opinions of people who took a different path after infidelity. I was thinking this morning how I was on this path in my life in which I was pretty happy. When my dad began to get sicker I could feel things changing. H's A just knocked me right off the road I was on, that I thought we were on together. I haven't found my way back onto that path yet. Actually, there is no "back" to that road I was on. I'm still trying to figure out what and where that road is. Did any of that make any sense?

CN, now you're not going to tell on me over in Recovery, are you? I was pretty surprised to see your name over here too. I read your post to Low Orbit and it seems like you and your W are doing pretty good. I'm not quite sure I understand what you meant by "you didn't really expect anything else did you?" I'd like you to explain that further if you have the time.

As far as your other questions, I'm not sure what the heck I'm doing. You told me once something like I must really love my H because of how badly I'm taking his infidelity. If there was a rating scale for BSs, and how they deal with infidelity and move on, I guess I would be all the way on one end of the scale. Of course you know what end that would be on. I wrote on Lily's thread how all these As are different, the FWS and BS are different, and so Recovery is different. I think this whole thing would be easier for me to deal with if our M sucked. I think I read one of your posts where you described how you couldn't reach your W pre-A and get her to understand your unhappiness. Maybe you felt like she didn't care about you. My H was unhappy, felt neglected, and didn't feel like I cared about him either. Those were his feelings. Maybe the difference is that I wasn't neglecting him because I was having this great old time. I guess having OW so actively pursuing him, and having such great opportunity, was too much for him to resist. Yet I still struggle with that.

CN, you have to admit, before you get too down on my H, I would be a tough BS to deal with. However, to give myself a break here, I also have some additional factors besides just the A to deal with. Factors which I've listed many times here on MB. (1) The fact that we had a pretty good M pre-A and pre-year from hell. (2) Having to get over the fact of how H totally let me down when my dad was dying and died. (3) Struggling to just get over that bi*** being any way around me during my dad's funeral. That's a hard one for me. (4) Having to actually be in the spaces that they had sex for months. I wish they had met at some motel.

The sexual betrayal is huge for me and I think it screwed us both up. I think he's telling me the truth that when he thinks about her and the sex, it isn't with fond memories. Just the same, I know that at the time, he was having fun with her. Maybe you can help me with this issue from the perspective of someone who had sex with someone that wasn't your W. I'm babbling again. For me, that area of our life just hasn't been reclaimed yet.

Feel free to write me back if you can unravel my confusion. As far as seperation goes, Dr. Harley said that isn't a good thing for the M unless the A is still going on. Plus I couldn't do that to our boys. We aren't and weren't pre-A a tense, fighting couple. Our boys are pretty secure in our home. If we seperated it would blow them out of the water.

Good to hear from you CN. Tell me how you're doing if you write back! We got dumped on by snow over the weekend. Cars were stuck in the driveway. The snow was so heavy we had branches break off one of our trees. Our boys actually had a snow day yesterday. They were happy! CV

CV,

I don’t know why I write these longwinded responses to you . . . Spidey does it so much better. I will try though.



Nope. I would have to report myself also.


I don't know why I read here in the divorce forum. I am not planning on getting divorced. My wife and I are in a much better place now. Marriage, dare I say it, is even sometimes fun. I guess I just want to see how some of the people that I have observed through the years are dealing with their new lives. I said "you didn't really expect anything else did you?" because I always seem to be asking you questions . . . and I bet it gets annoying.




I still feel that way about you. Your husband's infidelity did something not just to your marriage but to you as a person. I think that it affected your world view and your ability to feel safe. I think it affected you so deeply because you never saw it as even an option. You really thought you had a stronger man than you really did.



Yes, I certainly felt that I couldn't reach my wife pre-affair. I understand why you were unavailable to your husband. Death is never easy to deal with, and you had do deal with a lot of it in a short period of time.

I have no idea why your husband had the affair. I wonder if he really knows. He may have done it simply because he could. He may have did it because he felt abandoned? He may have not even given it much thought: the woman made a pass and he just went with the flow. Why does he say he did it I don’t remember what his reasons were.


I don't mean to be down on your husband. I really don't. I can relate to him because I shared a similar life experience. My advice to you isn't meant to hurt him at all, he's done that enough to himself and doesn't need help in that aspect, it was meant to jolt him into awareness. He needs to be made aware that he may be losing his wife, marriage, and family. I don't want you to do the 180 stuff out of spite, I want your husband to realize that CV isn't an emotional cripple and if she has to she will survive a divorce and go on with her life. That is what the 180 is about, making the WS realize that the BS has options other than just suffering from the affair. I do wish that you two could get out of the family business. That place would have horrible memories to me too if the roles were reversed. I would wonder if he was walking through those rooms thinking fondly about what went on there. I would know that I had to stop those mental movies, but it would be damn hard. I understand your point (4) perfectly.




Yes, I'm sure it did and it continues to screw you both up. You wonder how he could have done such a thing and he wonders that too, he has to now reevaluate how he really is from what he thought he was. I always thought that I was a kind, loyal person. Guess what? I'm not. I am sometimes . . . but other times I'm a selfish twit. That is an ugly truth, but it is my truth.


My affair was certainly both emotional and sexual. The sex must have been enjoyable at the time, but I don't look back on it and revel in my triumph. It felt wonderful to feel wanted and desired. It felt wonderful to have someone tell me how attractive I was and what a great body I had and how lucky my wife was that she got to spend so much time with me and what a fool she was for making the choice to not be home . . .all those things. I remember those. The actual sex-acts were awkward and strange. It sure didn't feel like making love to my spouse because I wasn't making love, I was rutting. There really is a difference. Frankly I would have been fine with not doing the sexual stuff because that isn't what I was looking for. I wanted to feel needed and wanted and that is what felt good to me.




I wish I could help you two fix this, but I can't. I would suggest a sex therapist, however I don’t think your problem is actual sex. I think that your problem is much deeper than that. You have resentment for what your husband did and maybe you just don’t want to have sex with someone that you resent? I wish I knew what to say here . . . My wife certainly doesn't like the fact that I slept with someone else . . . she likes it less that I became so emotionally bonded with another woman. My wife and I always had a decent sex-life, in fact I dare say that she is the best lay that I ever had: we just had problems with emotional closeness.


I understand why you can’t separate. O.K. answer me this: what could husband do to make this better? What specific things could he do to show you that you are indeed his first choice, that he loves you dearly and is sorry for his horrible choices? Does CV have any idea what she needs? If you do, can you help me realize what I need?

A snow day in late April!!! I bet your boys were thrilled.

Take care,

CN

OK CN, our posting on the D forum will just be our little secret. Knowing me I'll blab it at some point over in Recovery, but don't worry, I won't even mention your name.

For the 100th time thanks for taking the time to respond to one of my posts. Truthfully I think you are the only FWH who ever does. I'm getting a bit paranoid that maybe the FWHs are avoiding me. That's not entirely true. Some will post to me if I put one of my calls out to the FWHs out here in MBland. It really is a positive experience for me to hear from you guys. I'm one of these "need to know and understand" people, even if it kills me. Sometimes my questions do kill H, even if I'm nice about asking them. It puts him in a terrible place in which his natural reaction is to withdraw from me. He is working really hard not to do that when it happens. So it gives him a break and me a different perspective to talk to you about this stuff, and you do it just as good as Spidey. Well here goes! I wish I knew how to do the stupid quotes, but I'm not going to ask you to help me.

What you said about H's infidelity did something to me as a person is right on. I just told H the other day that I'm not a better person as a result of his A. I did discover a strength in myself that I didn't know I had. When the truth began coming out I was decimated, but I guess my actions were made of steel. OW was not going to be a part of our lives. H's if he wanted it to be, but definitely not ours. Other than that I'm kind of jaded now. It's not like I hadn't experienced my share of knocks over the years, or that I thought everybody in the world is all loving and nice.I have had my share of rejection over the years. This was different. Even though I could care less about OW, and never wanted to be her friend, I never faced someone like her before. Someone who had zero remorse about going after a MM with kids, especially during a time that he was so vulnerable. Who would talk to me and lie so easily. Who would willingly be around me during my dad's funeral like it was no big deal. That still blows me away. It's like I have this childlike mind that just can't grasp that kind of a person. You're also right that I did think I had a stronger man than I did. Our MC said that I will have to forgive him. I replied that it isn't even about forgiveness. I just don't understand it. I could go on about that but this post would be longer that it already is.

Why did H have an A? In "After the Affair" the author talks about various vulnerabilities for having an A. Our M had everything she mentioned. Sickness, death, H had this financial problem that the OW was helping him with, and other things I can't remember. Steve Harley said it's a failure of the WS to protect his weaknesses. That was there. Let's face it, I was not available to meet his ENs. We didn't even know what ENs were at the time. He had no idea admiration and acts of service were such biggies to him. Neither of those things mean much to me. OWs are generally great at meeting those needs in a man. I think he was naive and uncomfortable with her come-ons to him. He handled them badly, which encouraged her more. He became emotionally tied to her, much of it through what she did for him at work. The attraction developed. She made it very clear she wanted sex and never encouraged him to work on his M when he tried to end it. The nail in the coffin, pardon the pun, was the FH was the perfect place to have an A. They had a homey environment and plenty of alone time. H never had to sneak around, plus a very unjealous W. Oh, forgot to mention maybe the biggest factor, the death of his dad who abused him as a boy. Through IC he realized OW represented his grandmother who gave him comfort. His dad's death triggered a bunch of stuff in him. That was probably way more info than you even wanted. I also think over the years H had a certain fantasy that a good M doesn't require any effort. I thought he was over that, but all the crises maybe brought that out again. His R with OW required no effort. He now tells me he really didn't have to do anything except provide financial security. She met much more of his ENs. I could handle that for a while!

About the 180, I think it helped jolt him out of the withdrawal and his fantasy to know I'd move on without him. I was never happy with the idea of being second best. I think when he really came out of the fog is when he knew she was a giant fantasy, and he saw her more for the damage she did to all of us. He accepts total responsibility, but it took him a while to really see through her lies and the way she manipulated. He claims if he saw her he'd walk in the opposite direction, and not because he wanted to be with her.

It took H a long time before he felt good being in the FH. He says he does not have fond memories about what they did there. I'm not so worried about that. It's more about my images of them when I'm there. It puts me in a really bad place. I'm not sure how to get over it. The other day we talked about this couch that is in one of the offices that I know they had sex on. H said to him it's just a couch. He's never put emotions on objects. I asked him if he found out I had been screwing my old boyfriend on our family room couch would it bother him keeping that couch. He said no, it's just an object. I told him he doesn't have a clue. What do you think coming from his perspective? Truthfully I really don't think he can even picture me with someone else.

H told me from the beginning that his A wasn't about the sex. Sounds kind of similar to what you said. In fact he had to take meds when they had sex. At the time weren't you "in-love" with your OW, so why do you say it wasn't making love at the time? Since d-day H has never said anything mean to me like some stories I have heard on MB. In fact, one reason he's hated my questions is because he doesn't want to hurt me. Last summer he did tell me this at my pushing I'm sure. He said after experiencing those in-love feelings, regular love just doesn't seem to measure up. He told me that to let me know how screwed up he was then. Recently I reminded him of those words and he didn't even remember saying them, and now says he doesn't feel that way. Still, those feelings were there.

The sex issue is a big problem. My SIL was a BS and her M is recovered. She said the sexual betrayal was never that big of a deal because it's not one of her top ENs. It is one of my top 5 so I feel like I lost something from my life for a couple of years. In the late 90s H was on the Hep C meds which screwed him up, then SSRIs that screwed him up, than BP meds that screwed him up, than an A which screwed us up. He was a monogomous WS. He also convinced himself that I was the reason we weren't having great sex. Even now he forgets about the med problems and I think forgets what we had before that time. All I know is that before the meds and the A I thought we had a really good sex life together. I'm not saying that over the years there weren't times it wasn't just OK, but not pre-meds and pre-A. We reclaimed that part really fast after d-day. Around Septemeber he began holding back. It's hard to explain. You asked what I needed? It has to do with him really showing me the romantic love. He tells me over and over he does feel it, but he hold himself back. Maybe the A screwed him up so much he was afraid and ashamed to show me that love. Unfortunately it would have helped to wipe her out of my head and heal us. All I can say is that I'm now kind of screwed up in this area. It can be good, but not what it was for me pre-A.

So what's up with you? What needs are you trying to figure out that you need? CN, no matter what side of infidelity we're on, an A sure does mess a M up. I was watching Oprah yesterday and her show was about women from around the world. One woman was from Iceland and I guess girls start having sex at 15. It would be our worst nightmare, but there it's no big deal. Most women are single moms with kids from different fathers. Again, no big deal. Most people have sex on the 1st date. She didn't talk about infidelity, but I'm thinking it's not an issue. It got me thinking if an A would hurt so much in a culture like that, where you just have sex with lots of people. OK, I better stop now. Hope you write back to this very confused MB friend. CV