Wife's been wearing thong panties with much mor efrequency these days. They make into the wash right away too. I found one pair that looked like a they could possibly have a semen stain in them. I'm debating sending samples to a lab for analisys. Then am I ready to know the truth? What if it is? A preliminary makes me think it is.

Then waht do I do if the truth is what I dread? Am I ready to walk away?

Mark,

I am sorry you found this crap out. There is a test you can get. Not sure where it is available but there was a thread or 2 about it a few years ago. Ask Redhat, he may recall that thread.

As for knowing, well for me the unknown has always been worse. As hard as it is to learn this stuff, knowing does give you the strenght to move forward.

I used to use the 'you smell' talk on the WS to make them think they had a stench to them. Of course what the do (having the A) does stink, tell the WS they stink when you believe contact has happened may make them wonder a bit.

take care,
L.

I think I have to play with this home test kit a little more. I did some experimenting this morning and I think my previous results were in error. Could thing I didn't go off with wild accusations.

This just shows the current state of my mind.

Mark,
You know that the behavior you’re describing qualifies as marital abuse don’t you? In fact, I would bet that your wife is just a small step away from getting physical with her abuse; that is if she hasn’t already done so. And would you admit it to anyone if she did by the way?

I don’t know what your IC is telling you and of course I don’t know what you’re telling him, but your wife’s behavior is something that I’ve had a little experience with so please read what I have to say and give it some serious thought.

1. No matter how you behave it will make no difference. In the place your wife currently occupies, reality has no bearing or meaning. Her behavior is not in reaction to what you do, say or how you act. Instead…it’s your very existence that she perceives to be a foil if you will. And if it weren’t you that she had to focus her anger on, then it would be something or some one else…say one or all of your children for example! That you even breathe is at this point an affront to her.
2. You are not responsible for where your wife is presently located. No matter what you may have ever done, she is still the one who ultimately must accept ownership for her own state of being. Mark, people don’t make other people crazy, happy or sad. The things others do can affect us or seem to effect us that way but no one except Good God All Mighty has the power to make a person anything. You are not the problem!
3. However, in trying so very hard to appease your wife, what you’re actually doing is enabling her sickness and exacerbating it. You are feeding her neurotic behavior and in the process, affirming the pleasure she gets from her sickness …it’s like giving an addict dope! And she will need more and more, sooner and sooner between neurotic bouts and flair ups as time goes on…until verbal abuse will no longer suffice in providing her the “high.” And then she will strike out at you!
4. What you are currently involved in is not Plan A. What it is is avoidance and failure to confront. Weather out of fear or depression, you are not confronting this problem in a meaningful and pro-active way.
5. You need to learn how to disengage when she flairs and respond to her in a way that defuses her emotional explosion. Further, you need to detach and begin making INDEPENDENT life decisions based on what’s best for you and your children; not your wife’s neurotic demands and complaints.

If you want to discuss it further, I’m willing but as things are moving at the moment, you are going know where except down a long dark tunnel toward so kind of imminent disaster. Think of how your children must perceive this relationship.

Mark, just stop right now. Do not act on either her anger or affirmation. Instead, practice maintaining and even handed mental state that allows you to see more clearly how dreadfully neurotic you WW really is.

coach

Coach,

Thanks again for taking time with me. One of your major points is my fear of confrontation. I am afraid of calling her on my carpet to talk about her behaviour. To me it looks like she is just trying to force me into leaving. I need to learn how to confront respectively. Seems when I get into a confrontational mode it creates heavy duty fights. I also confuse confronation with ultimatums. I need a lot of help in this area.

What you describe heads the nail on it's head. There is no physical abuse, we have never struck each other.

What my IC sees is a transference between us. I gave up my drinking showed signs of improvement and upset the balance. I feel we are in some power struggle. I mentioned MC to her a few months back and she said not until school and what not is over. Then she gave me this look that said 'so there - what are you going to do about it'. I now care deeply about our relationship, she says she could care less about it and wishes she was in a position to leave and take the kids with her. Before I though of her as a 'b*tch'. Now I almost idolize her.I let her have too much power through out the years and diminished any respect she had for me. A funny observation I made a few years back: my kids were playing with school house toy. There were several figures, all fairly non-decsibt as to age. My kids put the figures in their desks. My wife said they did it wrong. She claimed the teacher to be the one with red hair. Guess my wife's hair color? I told my IC about this and he saw the same thing I did. She visions herself in charge. From what I dfescribe to IC he points out she is acting in a child like manner. Her cry of 'I hate you!' sounded like it should have been 'I hate you daddy' with some stomping of feet as she said it. Liek a little kid rebelling.

Yes she hates my very existance. She tells her friends she doesn't want to be here and that if I left she would be a very happy camper. She tells me my hugs mean nothing, in fact they enrage her.

I know, but can't fully accept I have no control of what my wife feels or thinks. I've done some neglectful and insulting things, unfortunately those are what she dwells on. I wish I could find that magic phrase or action that would spark her love for me again. In almost a year of looking I have yet to find it. In all honesty I must not exist.

My behavour could be described as enabling. No matter how bad she treats me I'm still there. I don't know what penalty to through at her sense she seems pretty much OK without my help. I ahve spoken up about the emotional abuse when it was intense and it did simmer down some.

Plan A? I don't know what the hell I'm doing right now. Until Christmas I was doing a pretty good plan A and she was execpting and realizing my improvements. My exposure to OMW brought the whole thing crashing down. I still avoid sharp critism and don't take what she says to heart to much. But when she screams 'Don't you f'ing get it? I don't love you!' It hurts, but it seems like a child acting out.

Fear to confront. Big time! What do I do? Is it ultimatum time? Come to MC with me and work on this marriage or get the f out? Has it come to that yet? What should I confront, how should I confront. This is a big issue for me and I know it. This is what what I mean by getting power and respect back. She is too comfortable in the drivers seat right now.

To add to this my son is having a big event in his life soon - First Communion - less than two weeks away. This adds stress to our household and we must make this go off without a hitch.

I try to disengage from her flair ups. I'm getting better in not getting dragged into an insane argument. ut her remarks still hurt and I feel an urge to defend myself aginst falsehoods.

I realize she's in a bad mental state and its not nice to pick on the mentally ill. My kids see the stark contrast before and after Christmas. Even though she 'wasn't in love with me' before Christmas now she dispises me. My oldest daughter is soon to start therapy. Of course the counselor learns of my prior alcohol abuse and steers her towrds therapy for kids with a recovering alcoholic parent. More fuel for the wife that I am resposible for every thing wrong with our family.

Hi markNY,

The first year of getting sober is full of changes for BOTH spouses. When my FWH went into treatment many years ago (although he started drinking again after 10 years) I insisted on attending every session they had available to the spouse. I knew that I was "sick" from his disease too, I just didn't know how to get well. In fact, every professional that I was involved with at that time told me that I was by far the "best" co-addict they had ever come across. Translation: I was much sicker from my side of the disease than most co-addicts and, to tell you the truth, I think I was sicker than my alcoholic.

MarkNY, there are some longterm recovering people here who have also dealt with infidelity. I strongly encourage you to seek them out because I think their experience and their knowledge could help you in ways that no one else can. One of those is MelodyLane (recently celebrated 20 years sobriety) and I forget who else but I'll bet she would know.

Take care

Thanks Loving,

I wish my wife would at least check out some alanon meetings. Right now I don't know what to think. SHe say she wants out and thats that. Maybe I'm just too thick and don't get it, but I'm holding out hope.

This counseling with our D12 can't start soon enough. Maybe someone will talk some sense into her (for the kids).

I spoke with OMW this morning and things are very much the same at their house. She offered to talk with my wife but I don't know if she really will.

Hi markNY,

I suggested seeking out longterm recovering people who have also dealt with infidelity for help for YOU.

It's not all that common for two spouses to start recovery at the same time. Sometimes the spouse starts first by going to Alanon or counseling, sometimes the alcoholic/addict starts first by going to AA or getting clean and sober through another program or method.

In your case, it sounds like you were the one to go first. I knew a few alcoholics/addicts who went first. It took a while for them to work THEIR program before their spouses were attracted to those changes and wanted recovery for themselves too. I do know of one case that the longer the alcoholic recovered, the more he didn't like his wife (who refused all counseling, Alanon, etc). Last I knew, he was going to give it all of the recommended first year before making any major changes in his marital status and thought he would give it two years because they were married for many years. I don't know how it turned out.

You're going first in recovery markNY. All you can do is lead the way and see if your W follows. Focus on leading the way, which really means focus on your recovery and sobriety. Get advice and suggestions from those who have gone successfully before you.

Take care markNY <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />