Greetings! I have been following the posts for a year now. I have never posted, but I certainly appreciate the community. You have all helped me a great deal. Thank you.

I now feel a need to post and vent and get some advice, and possibly some hope. Or possibly a wake up call – but I pray that THAT is not the case. At least I am now ready to own it.

Lessee – this will take a little explaining to get you up to speed. I had been neglectful for many years (seven according to my main source). Basic stuff, like not meeting her most important emotional need – good conversation. I traveled a lot, had a good group of good friends, and felt a great deal of satisfaction from prestigious jobs. She stayed at home and took care of 3 babies. Many other needs were not met well, and she was very unhappy for several years. She tried and tried to communicate to me that something needed to change – and I did not understand. I felt she would some day re-arrange her life and paradigms and things would get better. I withdrew every credit and my account went deep into the red. I also had an occasional internet based addictive tendency.

She has told me that she finally totally gave up. She apparently spent a year mourning the death of the relationship. She began to seek to fill the emotional need in the fall of 2003. Early in 2004 she began an EA with an old friend, and that continued until the end of 2004. He hurt her, and they are no longer in contact.

She still maintains that it is over and that she wants a D. She loves me , thinks I am a great father, enjoys the benefits of me being around (we live in the same house. I sleep with my 6 yr old son).

In about February of 2004 I began to open my eyes to my shortcomings, did a web search, found MB.com, and have become a total MB believer and have applied the teachings of Dr. Harley to my life. I have been changing for over a year, and know I have a long way to go. But the changes have been quite dramatic. I found a list of things I wrote that should help resolve the issue – and have met the goals. Almost no traveling, lots of good conversation.

She still stands by her desire to D, and move on. Sometimes she says she is confused. No paperwork has been delivered yet. Two night ago she told me she she felt she could never be intimate with me until after a D.

I have been in plan A for over a year, now. It has helped the relationship, but she is still not responding positively. Seems she really has moved on. Of course, she is only 4 months out of the A. She had made a TOTAL emotional commitment to him, and is still recovering from that, I believe.

Do any of you kindred souls have a similar experience? Can I one day deposit enough units that she will fall in love with me? Have any of you sweet souls had her experience?

It seems as if she is going through a mid-life identity crisis. She said, just the other night, that she needs to find out who she is “out from underneath my shadow”. I wish to give her the space that she needs to find out. I might be LBing – calling too much, etc. I still need to work on that. I ache for her. I will do anything to restore the relationship. A year of plan A with another year to go has left me weary.

I will post more – but want to get this online and start hearing your comments…

Hi FAR

Much of your story hits a note with my own situation, and I am sure with many others too.

MB isn't scripture that can't be misinterpreted on pain of damnation, but you do seem to have misinterpreted plan A.

Plan A is designed to be the first recource to ending a spouses affair.

As I am sure you've read it involves avoiding lovebusters, meeting the emotional needs you are aware of and are able to while also exposing the affair and protecting personal boundaries. For an exposition of the DYNAMICS of a great plan A read Arks 'lighthouse' thread. Plan A lights the way with a clear beam to a non judgmental place where a WS can be welcomed back from the mess of their affair and where the BS at least will TRY to work through the issues caused if the WS is willing.

Its really not meant to run past the end of the affair. As your WS affair ended a while ago, your SHOULD really find yourself in recovery with a different set of challenges. behaviours are SIMILAR bit not identical to plan A typically.

Its GREAT that your W isn't in an affair anymore BUT after a YEAR of plan A type behaviour I would have thought that if you two were at ALL compatable some mutual investments in the lovebank would have occurred by now.

In fact ...having read and studied many cases on these boards... I would say your W is displaying near non-breathable levels of fog. Are you CERTAIN she is not in an affair ?

"I can't be intimate with you until after a divorce" ? I mean that is fog incarnate.

Divorce ( or filing at least) is used as a punishment gesture by many people who don't really want a divorce. It could be that she is behaving in this way.

So many variables and possibles.

You have children so I commend you for working hard on keeping your marriage alive. I read a couple of things into yoru posts:

Firstly you appear to blame yourself for almost FORCING your W into an affair.


The BS should take their due blame but no more. To take more blame than is due is conflict avoidance. In my own sit I was ALSO seduced by the lure of a senior travelling career and it didn't add to a great life for my Squid (FWW) but that means I contribute dto an unsatisfying marriage NOT That the affair was IN ANY WAY my fault. Our spouses had a huge toolbox of possible options, and they chose affairs.

If your 'plan A' type behaviour is being performed apologetically because you feel culpable, your W may well feel stifled by you OR may not respect you. People use doormats, they don't respect them.

I think you need good quality MC. Try the Harleys or Penny Tupy on Save Your Marriage Central. They will be better than ANYONE on these boards.

Secondly I think you need to make sure your W knows that you will NOT shackle her to your marriage if she doesn't want to honour her commitment to your family and to God, and also that you will maintain your dignity and self respect. A father who supports his family the best way she knows how through a crisis deserves such.

I have seen this approach be effective in almost every case it has been approrpiate to: to tell the WS "I want to be hapily married to you, but I don't NEED to be. Stay or go as your conscience advises you. If you stay and contribute to recovery I will work as hard as possible to build a great marriage with you for us and our children. If you go it will devastate our kids and THEN I will work primarily to minimise their hurt".

Do NOT discount the re-admission price to your heart and your life. If YOU do not behave as if you value yourself, why should your W value you ?

That your W 'enjoys the benefits of you being around" SCREAMS to me that Plan B would work a treat UNLESS she truly is not in an affair/
If she is not in an affair, your issue is a relationship recovery challenge. So plan B is probably not appropriate.

OK lots of words.

Its clear you have love and sand. That goes a long way to fixing marriages !

I think you need better info:

* Investigate - your W could be in an affair. Her every behaviour you list here would attest to that.
* If she is a Plan B would be in order.
* You should get high quality MC in either case.

All blessings

Call Jennifer or Steve @ MB and do some phone counseling....pronto.

L.

BP - thank you. W and I have a good friendship - better than before the A. I don't think she is active in an A, but I do not know that. We have been honest with each other lately. She says no. I believe it to be true.

I feel as if she really did essentially move on from the relationship so long ago that it is as if I have found a woman I like and am trying to get her attention - get her to like me, fall in love with me, marry me.

I do not know that her counselor is a pro-marriage counselor, but she might agree to a session with Steve or someone at MB. I will ask her.

I am trying to apply all I have learned from HN-HN, and that is what I call my plan A.

Thanks again. I will approach the MC.

OH - and plan A started 8 months before the A ended, in December. Her pain was tremendous. Now I feel as if she is in the recovery stage, and I am just trying to put units in.

FAR, I will bump up my 'new BS toolkit' thread. It bundles together lots of experiences and some wonderful advice from smart folke here to me. You will see a lot of your own situation there.

Withdrawal is hard on FWS . Very hard.

Squid, my baby, was as nasty, spiteful and deeply embroiled in an entangled EA/PA as any WS ever has been pretty much.

Now, nine months later she loves me very much and is working hard on recovery with me. Many other folks too.

Have faith !

Yes, I perceive that her withdrawal is very rough. She is 4.5 months into it. I believe it could go a year.
She does not currently want to even seek restoration. She sees no hope in that.

Hopefully she will eventually heal and be willing to seek MC together.

BP - Thanks a lot for your response. It is greatly appreciated.

Make sure you relate this statement to Steve or Jennifer if you counsel with them.

On face value, this speaks volumes to me. It may describe very confused and unrealistic expectations.

She may actually believe that divorce will "fix" something.

Or she believes that just the symbolism of divorce will somehow cleanse her and sufficiently hurt you.

Or she "needs" the divorce to check out OM, then return to you if it doesn't work.

Or, the Mothership is fully in control.

I agree with Bob - Plan A, per se, is not what you need - but Plan A behavior and meeting ENs should still be your agenda.

My W "Plan A"'d the h*ll out of me, and she didn't even know she was "Plan A"ing it. I was in a full blown, no holds bar PA for 2+ years. Yes, it does work.

Just for clarity, my W changed to make the M. But, so did I. I was in IC for 2 years and I worked very hard to become a better person and husband. Your W has to do some work herself.

While I respect you for understanding how you contributed to the problems in the M, the A was *her* fault and *her* responsibility. The bottom line is that the A occurred because of *HER* problem, not yours. So, while you have done a lot of work, she also has to do some of the heavy lifting.

It sounds a little like you have attempted to (once again?) shoulder all the responsiblity for a problem.

Help her become a better person, but recognize that she is the one who has to change. You may need to show her how the M can help her grow. What does she suggest that might help her? For example, IC (individual counseling) with 3 kids as a single mom is almost impossible. However, in a M, with a loving, supportive spouse, IC is very doable.

Similarly, does she want to get a job? Does she want to go back to school? What does *she* want to do to improve herself, and how can you help her?

JM - thanks for your support. I need to hear stuff like that right now. Sorry for the delay in reply - busy school week with my daughter.
W has a job - for the first time I have worked around her.
She is in a play - for the first time...

I am giving like crazy. I hope to build up units, and create something that she can not do without. And I am committed for life.

Gotta go... will respond more later.

Thanks, again!!! All of you!

I do not know what this means. Could you explain?

You are all pointing to the idea that she must do "some of the heavy lifting". She is in IC - for many things - not just marital. She is searching for something - and I do not know that she knows what it is. She has not yet indicated she is interested in trying to make it work again. She has related to me that she tried for years to get me to understand that something had to change. I finally got it - too late. Her C has indicated to her that I am in denial. I know that my work is likely useless - but I neeeeeeed to know that I have done all that I can.

I appreciate all of your encouragement. Even though it seems hopeless - I will stay the course. I have faith.