I really admire people who get busy when they are faced with such devastation. Me, I resort to a pratically comatose state, staring off into space, hardly able to move.

Anyway, listened to this song again last night and thought of you. I still chuckle when I remember that post where I was telling your the only book I read as a teen was "jonathon leavingston seagull" and then afterwards it dawned on my what your initials stood for. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

So for you jlseagull -

BAD COMPANY lyrics - "Seagull"


Seagull, you fly across the horizon
Into the misty morning sun.
Nobody asks you where you are going,
Nobody knows where you're from.

Here is a man asking the question
Is this really the end of the world?
Seagull, you must have known for a long time
The shape of things to come.
Now you fly, through the sky, never asking why,
And you fly all around 'til somebody, Shoots you down.

Da da da da da da da down.
Mm mm mm mm, mm mm.

Seagull, you fly, across the horizon,
Into the misty morning sun.
Nobody asks you where you are going,
Nobody knows where you are from,
Now you fly through the sky, never asking why,
And you fly all around 'til somebody, yeah,
Shoots you down. Mm mm, yeah.
Seagull you fly, seagull you fly away.

And you fly away today
And you fly away tomorrow
And you fly away, leave me to
my sorrow.
Mm, mm, mm.

Seagull go and fly, mm, mm, mm,
Fly to your tomorrow, leave me to my sorrow, fly.

Thanks weaver, but there are times that I jsut ball up into the fetal position and wait it out. I am sure glad that it is spring/summer as I can get outside and that usually makes me feel better.

I love that song, but it is sad also. A little too symbolic for me right now.


SS,
I have been meaning to get back to you about your post. I try so hard to take the "high road", and yes I can always improve. The real problem right now is the lying and nontrust. I cannot get over anything, while he is still lying to me about all sorts of stuff. Not really big things, that I know of, but daily interactions with coworkers, esp. female. I am beginning to believe that he has either had a series of EAs that I ws just too stupid to figure out, or; He actually never had an EA, he is just flirty and spoke to a female coworker about our M, I caught that, he lied about it and stopped it (never found any other evidence, except for lies lately).

I will be posting my Plan B letter later today for critique. Please everyone help!!

jls

Hi jls,

I hope you are doing well today.

Hope you don't mind if I comment on lots of things.

Remember, I am just a fellow traveler, not a professional counselor. In your case, counseling could go a long way to restoring your marriage. Is there any way you could counsel with the Harleys? I am think you have a better chance than many here do, if only.........


Now, here goes -

I would like to go in depth into the R that we have right now, but long explanation. Basically, if I never ask for anything or say anything that can be considered "critical" to my H, all is fine, to him anyway = "critical" includes comments from me like "Boy, those kids are driving me crazy today". But "we" fight at the drop of a hat, even if I removed all the hats in the house.

There is no way I can know every thing but I draw from my knowledge of my own married life, and some of the things I have read. In "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" it talks about how men take things personal - and if you comment on something (such as your quote about the kids above) they often think it is directed at them, that is, they think you believe they caused whatever it is you are commenting on. If you haven't read this book, I recommend it. I see over and over on these boards that some of the problems are communication problems because the H, and the W have different ways of looking at things. It may be more important than it first appears when you read this.




Now, I should have said this right up front, but I will add it in now.

I am not saying your marriage problems are your fault. I am telling you these things not because I blame you, but because you are asking, and you may be able to get some small help from all the suggestions I give. NOT because you need a lecture, or to be told all this is your fault. Often I wish I could talk to the couple together, but since you are here, I will tell it all to you, and let you pick out any thing you feel will help. OK?


Even if my H had no type of A, he has lied so much and refused to meet my ENs for so long. He is definitely not willing to be totally intimate in this M. I am very alone in my M, and getting more depressed day by day.

I would like to go back and read your whole history, but don't have time. Have you have asked him to fill out the needs questionnaire, and done it your self? If you have, and he won't work on it with you, I can see why you would be frustrated. My W and I try hard to meet each others needs, even though we struggle sometimes to understand how the other really feels. I find I need to keep reading here or I forget to see things from her point of view. I can memorize what to do, but I haven't been able to understand why she needs some things, or how she really feels. Had I not read as much on MB as I have, I don't think I would believe she really thinks the way she does.

There may be some of this going on at your house. He may not "get it" because he is wired so different that you are. This is one of the things counseling can help.


If you continue to meet his needs and get nothing in return, you will burn out and seek D at some point. I don't know how close to this you are, but plan B is a help in this case. Hopefully he will understand it is serious and seek to do whatever is necessary to reconcile - but it will help you if you can get inside his mind a little more - hence the suggestion to read MAFM, WAFV.


So, I messed up and then tried to fix it. H wants to come home so badly. I think that he is spending way too much time over here. What do you all think? I told him he could come home when he chose one of the other 2 options that I originally gave him.

It is easier to met needs when together, encourage it until you start plan B. Right now, Primo Plan A.


You are not boring -

What's more, you want to be noticed for your contribution to your family. You work so hard, and don't get thanked nearly enough. This is another thing that drives you nuts.

For this one (don't laugh, I am serious about this) I recommend "The five love languages" by Chapman. "I love you" means different things to different people. We tend to give others what WE WANT, not what THEY WANT. Is he trying to show you he loves you by giving you things he likes, not what you need?

The only problem is that if you are like me, it will take reading both books over a few times, and some heavy thinking while you are out taking care of the animals (over quite some time) before it all comes together for you. If I understand things correctly, you are going to plan B in a few weeks.


Not boring, but I wish I had time to ride. Funny, just remembered H saying that he really became unhappy during my happiest year. I was taking riding lessons for the 1st time in my life, and had horsefriends... He was jealous of me being happy, he told me that once.

I would bet he wanted to enjoy being with you - and felt left out for some reason. Not so much that you were happy, but that he wanted to be happy with you.

My W and I filled out the RC questionnaires (found on this site) , and found things we both enjoy. We try to concentrate on these things more, and not so much things that I enjoy and she does not, or things she enjoys but I do not. Is he willing to take the time to fill this out? Have you already done it, and nothing came of it?

I agree with DR Harley that if a couple does things together, and spends time in RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES together each week, it is easier to fall in love, and stay in love. Is there anything in this area you can look at to help your relationship?

Again, I remind you, I am not saying you have problems with this stuff, but am trying to find some things you can look at to work on to make you feel better about your chances of success.


I have been meaning to get back to you about your post. I try so hard to take the "high road", and yes I can always improve. The real problem right now is the lying and nontrust. I cannot get over anything, while he is still lying to me about all sorts of stuff.

I would not live with a permanent liar either. But -

But, you can change and improve right along. If he refuses to change, if he continues to say nothing happened, if he files for D, and leaves you - there is nothing you can do about it.

You can do something about you. You can change and improve. You can loose the anger, and be the best you possible Either way, you will get to keep the changes you make, and it will make your future brighter. Either way, improving you, is a Win/Win proposition. If you save your marriage, it will be richer, and have more joy for all of you. If you end up getting a D, you will do that much better in your next relationship.

I hope you don't mind a personal story.
I found MB kind of by accident. There was no A at our house, but things were really not as good as I wanted them to be. The information here seemed so valuable. My W needed so many changes, and this was just the stuff to get her to make them. How could she refute such well thought out, logical ways to improve a marriage?

Perhaps you can see what I am getting at. I could not make my W change. I learned to change me, and watch her respond over the course of the three years I have been working on my marriage using MB materials. In every case, it took me changing before she would change, and there are still things unfinished. HOWEVER, things are much better, and we are in love.

I could go on and on about how much better things are now - it really can work. I worry about the cycle of anger, that you two are in the middle of.

The three stages are:
Intimacy, Conflict, and Withdrawal.

You two SOUND like you are in conflict. It looks like conflict out of habit, more than conflict to make progress in to intimacy. Emotionally it almost seems like you are in withdrawal, and the conflict is on the surface out of habit.

I still think this conflict needs to end, and real communication began before progress can be made. Counseling could speed up this process way beyond what would normally happen when you are not able to trust your H.

Wishing you well.

SS

Sorry SS,

I do not have hte emotional stamina to answer your qs today. Or the time or the alertness.

Having a REALLY BAD DAY, actually couple of days.

I feel like my M is over already. I have no patience for this. I am no good at Plan A. I don't want to be lied to anymore and I cannot believe that I married someone who lies and lies, and is so detached and unavailable most of the time.

I broke down crying last nite as he was leaving, he came by for dinner. Then I broke down worse in front of my S7, after H left!!! I started an R talk, I guess, my own fault. Inactivity kills me!!!!! But I was asking him if he was gonna stay at parents or what? If he was looking for another job? No. A second job so that he can get an apartment. I told him, calmy, that it seemed as if he did not want to come home. That started it all....BAD ME BAD ME

I really am depressed right now, been crying off and on for 3 days. ADs don't seem to be helping either.


IN a hole,
jls

Sorry for the hard times. (know words don't really help)

Remember it's your thread, don't worry about responding unless you want to. I encourage you to journal because I know it helps you, but don't ever feel you have to respond if you are not up to it.

SS