Recently, a long-awaited financial decision in my favor made it possible that I have retirement funds that I would be able to borrow against to use as a down-payment on a house. Owning a home is something that we have been dreaming about for a long time.

It has gotten me to thinking about the future of my marriage. In 2001, I started at MB and expressed some unmet needs to W. It is now 4 years later and my needs are still not being met.

I frankly don't think I want to buy a house with her, because it seems that by this point, my needs aren't ever going to be met. Buying a home together seems to me to be a pretty big commitment, and I don't think I'm prepared to commit to her any further.

We don't have the means to seperate. When the next school year starts W will be in a somewhat better position to work full-time.

I am thinking about a transitional seperation where I would live in a different room and essentially live seperately but I would still be paying for the majority of the running of the household.

Has anyone ever done this before? How did it work out?

Slap--

Posting to you here, rather than on EN, because there is just too much to wade thru on that thread.

Never having actually done the seperation thing, I can't give you much advice there (we discussed it, but didn't try it). But, two thoughts anyway. One, you & Pam have both posted a long time, but there in most of the threads I've seen there is not actually a lot of evidence of actual success on either part in really, consistently using the principles. I'd suggest that you consider trying some MB-style marriage coaching. As someone who has both tried things alone and worked with a behavoiral coach pushing us both and making us accountable for change...there is a world of difference. So, at least think about it, would ya?

Secondly, if you are thinking of seperation, talk to Pam about it. She may be surprised you are so unhappy, and willing to commit to a marriage coaching program. She's certainly not happy either, and you may find that she is ready to seperate too, and save you all this uncertainty. Or whateverher thoughts may be...she should have the right to know what you are thinking and respond to it.

Lastly, I hate to say it, but the tone of your post sounds oddly reminiscient of my DH a few years back when he was not actively in an affair, but MLCish, unhappy and certainly had in mind that his life would be "much better" with a certain female he knew. I hope you are not mentally sidetracking yourself in a similar way.

Whatever you do, best wishes...

Kathi

Slappy, from my perspective seeing how your W is still emotionally invested in the M and you have more or less checked out I can only think that an in-house separation may push things from volitile to downright nuclear.

You have to honestly ask yourself how do you think your W will respond to your living separate lives. Will she detach, will she become hostile, more needy, ect? Do you imagine that it will be easy for her to see you every day and know that she no longer has input into your personal life?

I know for me, this would be very, very difficult, if not downright impossible. In fact, during my divorce I moved 2 states away so I would not have the daily reminders of my dying M around me. I suspect your W will have the same hardships.

When our marriage was in crisis my wife and separated in the sense that we slept in separate rooms. It help a lot at the time. We both had a place of refuge where we didn't have to look at the other person if we didn't want to. We could share a meal, play with the baby, watch a little t.v. and so forth. If we started getting angry with each other and started LBing, we could retreat and cool down. I didn't wish to be in her bed at the time and she certainly felt the same.

Hope this helps.

Slapnuts, I'm sorry. Sometimes, MB doesn't seem to work. I basically shut down the last six months I was living with B. We often slept in separate rooms but I didn't go out at night or do stuff without asking him. I know some people have done in the in-house separation, usually for custody reasons. It is incredibly hard for everyone in the house. Both adults have to be self-disciplined in their behavior if the children aren't to be affected.

I agree with Kam that you need to be honest with Pam. Tell her why you won't buy a house. Tell her you want a separation.

My H was shocked when I moved out, in spite of me asking for a separation twice in the previous year. He thought I was going through a phase. Pam may be in the same boat, and when faced with really losing you, she may be willing to meet your needs. Or she may be relieved.

I also think you should borrow some of that money and talk to a lawyer.

I think it does if both people participate fully. I don't think that's been the case.

W's been willing to do things that are not difficult to try to meet needs, but when it comes to work, or sacrifice, I'm not worth it.

I tailed you over here too, Slapster. But I dunno how often I'll be checking, not my usual stomping ground. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My first H and I did an in-house separation for several months. It was kinda weird, and although we didn't actually fight I don't think it was a particuarly great time for the kids...family time had become time with mom, or time with dad. I was going out every other weekend (as in, "going out" and telling my H if I didn't expect to come home. Then he started dating as well. Very weird - it was time to REALLY separate.

May I ask a Q? I think I noticed on the other thread that you never shared passwords with Pam. You didn't buy into the Radical Honesty stuff? Why?

"But when it comes to work, or sacrifice, I'm not worth it."

I used to think that, too. Sometimes I still do. However, most of the time, I don't fall into that trap. My H and I are simply too different. The "work and sacrifice" would kill who he is just as surely as the "work and sacrifice" he asked of me would kill who I am.

Dr. Harley doesn't want either spouse to "sacrifice" for the other because it just builds resentment. I think my H and I were both sacrificing a lot in our marriage, building up resentment without actually making the other person happy. This can happen when two people are very far apart on a lot of issues. Values are especially hard because you can't POJA values.

Anyway, when I found a different way to frame B's attitude toward me, I lost a lot of my bitterness and anger. It's interesting to note that for the few weeks we were back in MC this year, all that anger and bitterness and resentment and the feeling that I wasn't worth it, it all came back with a vengence. Once I said "No. I'm not doing this. I want a divorce," it evaporated.

Slap, I don't know if this helps or not. Divorce isn't easy. Today, my younger daughter was pulled crying from my arms because she didn't want to spend the night at daddy's. She was fine ten minutes later, but it crushed me. It probably crushed her daddy too, even though he knows how much both girls love and adore him.

On your EN thread, you stated that you didn't want your wife and children to live in poverty.

Have you really thought this through? I mean, there hasn't been a safe place for your wife to live, free from the critical eye of your mother in years - and if you can't afford your own apartment without your mom's help - or if you already can't swing two households (your mom can't afford to live on her own), then how on earth are you going to afford one more?

Think this through ALL the way. Get to where you are saving up the cost of that third household so that you can keep your promise of buying a home for Pam and the children.. that is, if you really mean what you say. Otherwise, it's just a nice dream that feels good when you type it, but reality bites Pam BIG time.

I think I like to preserve a little piece of individuality and privacy. I mentioned the wallet and purse thing. I don't want to know her passwords or go through her purse either.

We share pretty much everything, I just like to have a couple things private.

I am hoping that W will start working full-time.


I never promised to buy her a house. I said that I was considering it. No decisions have been made yet.

I'm sure it isn't. I see it as inevitable though. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

I can see that this is a path you really want to go down.

Please be aware that there are surprises you don't anticipate, heartaches you can't imagine, and destruction you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy, let alone your wife and your children.

No matter how well you plan otherwise.

Marriage isn't some plastic appliance that you throw out when it cracks or breaks, or fails to function to our satisfaction. When we throw it away or try to recycle it, a piece of ourselves ends up lost forever.

I know that this insight is meaningless for you right now, because you have decided it's not if, it's when you get divorced.

But some day you will know - it's a lesson life teaches us eventually.

Slap,

if this is really how you feel, then why wait? Why put off the inevitable? Let Pam and your kids know your intentions.

I realize you think by staying and doing an inhouse seperation will some how 'lessen' the effects, but your lying to yourself.

It only gives those living in that situation a false sense of security and hope that YOU might change your mind, like there is something that they could do to make you--when the reality is, you have already decided in your heart, nothing can or will ever change. So don't put them through that.

Go ahead and get the process started, but be honest with everyone about the WHYS!!

Including letting your kids know about Pam's weight issue being part of the problem for you. as they know she has tried to diet, and it will also make them wonder "if I gain lots of weight like mommy did, will daddy still love me??"

However, that will also put all the blame on Pam for the marriage ending, because 'she just didn't try hard enough'

[quote]I can see that this is a path you really want to go down.

Please be aware that there are surprises you don't anticipate, heartaches you can't imagine, and destruction you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy, let alone your wife and your children.

No matter how well you plan otherwise.

Marriage isn't some plastic appliance that you throw out when it cracks or breaks, or fails to function to our satisfaction. When we throw it away or try to recycle it, a piece of ourselves ends up lost forever.
[/quote/]

I don't think this is true. Divorce is not a good option in general. But for some people, many of whom are on this board, divorce becomes the best possible option. In divorcing an abusive person, a philanderer, or a toxic person, we save ourselves.

Also, some of us find ourselves in a situation where our spouses refuse to stop LBs and/or meet our needs. Maybe we should be stronger, but some of us find ourselves faced with either divorce or some other violation of our marriage vows. Divorce, Affair, Murder, Suicide. These often seem to be the only options. Staying in a cage of a marriage where a spouse refuses to meet needs or stop LBs is too horrible.

I don't know all the ins and outs of Slappy's situation. However, it's not like he's some newbie who hasn't put in the effort and the time.

GG, you may want to know the ins and outs of Slappy's situation to understand the nature of my feedback to him.

Pam is not your STBX. She has tried, with a husband who criticizes her appearance while he's pudgy and bald himself; who whines about her lack of communication with him when he spends a lot of time criticising her - who doesn't earn enough money to live in the part of the country they love the most, so they move to an area where the cost of living is less, he moves his mother in on them, etc. etc. etc.

Pam may not have been consistent, but neither has Slap. There are two sides to this. And on this one, well, let's just say that there is more than one person here who says that Slap hasn't earned his divorce!

You have. You have worked very hard. You have gone through marriage counseling, you have worked to recover a marriage with someone who's a bit of a sociopath. Pam is not a sociopath; she's overworked, overstressed with an ingrate for a husband!

Kayla, I do know many of the aspects of the whole situation having watched here since it started. While I agree that the ideal situation would be real counseling I also believe that you have to work with the personalities that are involved. In this case one of the parties has emotionally checked out and is not interested in counseling. What to do then, maintain status quo until the resentment turns into out and out dislike(hate?) and things go from "tense" to "intolerable"?

We can all espouse the belief that they should soldier on, get counseling or change their viewpoints but that hasn't been done in the 4 years they've been here, what's the odds of that happening now?

That's exactly where I see this relationship headed at it's current pace. Unless something miraculous happens and one or more POVs change drastically, I can easily see both parties becoming so angry at each other that things will get incrediably nasty.

Divorce is never a "great" solution. It's always painful for everyone involved. But there are degrees of pain and I can easily see things getting much, much worse if things just keep going along as they have been.

I know Pam isn't my STBX. I also know that Slapnuts hasn't been perfect. However, I don't see how that really points to "soldiering on" as Nduli puts it.

It's kind of like when B. told me just recently in counseling that I was just as selfish as he was, and continued on to enumerate my failings. This was his arguement for me staying married to him. I should remain married to him because I was flawed, and marriage to him was... my punishment for my flaws! Not exactly grounds for a happy marriage.

The sad fact is sometimes both people can work on a marriage and it can still fail. Sometimes, one person can put out every effort in the world, and still not be able to make the other person content.

I do feel badly for Pam. I'm not siding against her.

I'm not quite sure why there have been so many comments about slappy's physical appearance. The only opinion of his appearance that matters is pams. I've notice quite a few comments past and present and now here again.

I find it interesting that women (who for the most part are very sensitive re: comments about their weight) find it so easy dish out such comments to men.

Are men expected to be less sensitive to such issues?

As I recall, slappy has lost quite a bit of weight.
Also, if you look around you'll see that baldness is quite a fashion statement lately.

I think those comments are intended as low blows and totally unnecessary regardless of their relevance. They certainly don't appear to be compliments. If such comments were made to any female poster it would most likely be considered cruel and unnecessary. Why the double standard?

Come on Ba109, you know that there's always been a tone of anything Slappy says is wrong and he's nothing but a neanderthral in regards to his ENs so his appearance is fair game to many here.

Fact is, unless his W expressed a high AS need it doesn't matter what we think and it doesn't negate her responsibility to meet his expressed AS need.

Crappy situation all around.