Patriot and I have been working on Recovery.

We have had/still have some obstacles. We have had some successes, also.

I must first say that I made a decision to stop posting here for a time because I was much too fragile. I don't mind the occassional 2X4 when my behavior warrants it, don't get me wrong...But I received a few replies that were completely lacking of compassion and were, in my opinion, quite cruel and, considering the kind of pain I was in at the time - I was not strong enough to withstand more pain from a place that I came to for support and seeking knowledge so that I could grow. It was crippling, and I needed to protect myself for a time, so that I could heal a little in order to be able to move forward.

I am a bit stronger now...I no longer pray for death every day, and while I wouldn't exactly say that I am happy...I do desire happiness and I could not say that before. I didn't care about anything before and the only thing I desired was for the A to never have happened. Don't get me wrong, here...I still wish the A had never happened...it's just not the ONLY thing I wish for.

I wish for happiness. I wish for recovery. I wish for recovery WITH my husband. But you know what? I wish for recovery if he is incapable or unwilling to recover with me, also. I wish to heal, which I why I am back here, posting again. I'm strong enough now to withstand any painful, callous comments and to disregard that information which is helpful from that information which is either hurtful or irrelevant.

With that said...

I mentioned that Patriot and I have had some obstacles. One of those is that we have not sat down together and gone over the A. This 'wall of secrets' is creating quite a barrier for us. As time goes by, I feel more and more distant from him, possibly because of this.

I have not pushed the issue. I do need for there to be no secrets between us, but I need for him to be willing. I need for him to put his desire to protect himself away and for his desire to protect our M to be more prevalent. So I've been waiting. I've been waiting for him to arrive at that point. I think he may be there. I think a session of sitting down and going over this is looming near, and while I look forward to trying to move past it...I dread, I mean DREAD the process. I fear the process. It terrifies me and puts bats in my stomach. Am I doing the right thing???? I sure don't want to go through that, all for naught.

I need for Patriot to lead us into recovery. A big part of the issue of the A, and many other things in his life, has been his lack of decisiveness. He seems to just let things happen as opposed to thinking about his actions and the consequences of them and making a decision. So I really need for him to be a leader, here.

I also need it because I need to know that he really loves me and values me. I need to know that he really wants me. I need to know that he wants us to recover and have that 'better than ever' marriage and will be willing to do anything to get it. I can't do all the work for him. I can't do all the decision-making for him. I need it to be him. I told him today that I will gladly help him, and I meant it. But I cannot, and will not do it for him. That would not be recovery. That would simply be more of me giving and more of him taking.

So there are a couple of obstacles. Some of our triumphs have mostly been in the form of good talks where we gain a better understanding of each other. He has done many things right. I'm very proud of the progress he has made and the growing he has done. He is learning to face confrontation - still a work in progress, but he's made some excellent strides. Little did he know that all along, while he was fearing confronting me about his feelings or about setting his own relationship boundaries with me, that I was desperately craving it. I'm actually proud of him when he confronts me about some of my negative behavior.

I'm learning not to 'spit venom' at him. I've learned that I can still express my emotion to him without being hateful. Of course, this is also a work in progress...in Venom's place is her evil step-sister - Sarcasm. I am working on this and have made some good progress. I would like a perfect score where this is concerned and I won't stop until I achieve it.

Thanks for listening,

Froz

Froz, good to see you back and posting. You sound very strong and for that I am grateful. Do you know what is holding Patriot back from opening up about the A? Keep working with him gently and you may want to check out the update from Deeplysorry. Coincidentally you both resurfaced today. Maybe she can help you in getting Patriot to open up. God bless in you in your journey together.

Welcome Back

That is odd that we both resurfaced today hehe

I wish I could help you with some advice on getting Patriot to open up. Let me tell you, as the WS, you know how much hurt you have caused and talking about the A hurts the BS more and hurts yourself, so as a preotective matter you just don't want to say.

As the WS you don't understand how hurting the BS even more could help - in my head then it was - you know about the affair, I am here now, you know I love you and I am sorry - why do you want to torture yourself with the details?

It was my H who kept insisting he needed to know to piece it together.

I don't know if he ever got enough information, but he stopped asking at one point.

Let me warn you though - for me - talking about it was the hardest thing. It adds more shame, hurt and remorse - and is very hard to shoulder - it may also be why Patriot isn't talking.

I am glad to hear you guys are slowly getting better!

-ds

Deeplysorry,

Welcome back to you, as well, and thank you for your response. I read your thread, too, and was just getting ready to respond to you when I noticed your response to me!

Thank you for your support and your FWS perspective - it is invaluable to me and does help me understand my H a little better.

I'm so glad to hear of the progress you are making! Your growth shines through in your words, and they offer me hope.

Froz

Bumping, in hopes of getting some feedback on whether or not I'm doing the right thing as far as getting the "whole story" of the A.

I noticed this thread has gotten quite a few "viewings", but not many replies. Geez, I hope I didn't scare everyone off when I mentioned my previous "fragileness" concerning some replies to my posts in the past...I said I was stronger now!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hi, frozen.

Welcome back!

I am following the thread. I hope you get lots of comments.

All the best,
Gimble

Yeah!!! <happy dance> I was worried about you two! So glad that just cause you are not "here", you are still working together!!! You go guys! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

As far as wanting to "know it all"... yep, I did too! Every gross, gorey and disturbing detail...<sigh> Still, I felt it necessary to get the real story since I have a very active imagination and I could come up with some pretty graphic stuff in my own head that wasn't always necessarily true. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Some parts I found quite upsetting, like the fact that he had met her parents and spent alot of time at their house (she lives w/ Mom & Step-F, real winner!)... when he was supposed to be working!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Patriot, I realize that the "dirty details" are very hard for you to share. I can only imagine the shame and hurt *you* must experience talking about the A. I know my H had a great deal of trouble talking about it...it is humiliating to have to rehash the facts of a time in your life that you were *not* acting your finest... however, as a couple, as the "oneness" is restored, you must not keep secrets.

Difficult? Unbelievably! If you must, consider it attrition for the injury you helped bring into this M.

I wish you both the best!! Baby steps, one foot in front of the other...

Blessings to you guys...

It feels great to have your support!

Froz

Like it or not, froz, Patriot cannot "lead" your recovery because he's in no position to.

It's up to YOU to decide where this will go. You are the one with the option to divorce at this point. You are the one who can decide how much information is enough. He doesn't know any of this.

All he can really do at this point is be attentive, accountable, open and willing to do what you need him to do. He's looking to you for clues to what it will take for you to heal. His fate is in your hands.

What worked for me and my W; we agreed that I would answer any question she had about the A completely and without sugarcoating. I would not volunteer information that she didn't ask for. She was in complete control of it. She would get EXACTLY what she asked for from me. After the first question or two, she realized that I was serious and she needed to choose her questions wisely...for her own sake. Today, I believe she knows what she needs to know to heal. There are more things she doesn't know, and I would tell if she asked, but she's seen fit not to.

One thing you must avoid if you can. You cannot ask him to be open and then punish him for it. If you choose to use what he reveals to you against him, he will clam up (understandably). This doesn't mean you can't express hurt...it only means that you must avoid attacking him.

It will be hard for both of you, but no one ever said recovery was easy.

Low

LO,

I guess I didn't mean "lead" in reference to disclosing details. With reference to disclosing details, I simply need 'willing'. I do need him to volunteer information. I need for there to be no secrets between us, and I'm sure there are secrets that probably wouldn't be covered in any question I might think of.

I meant 'lead' in terms of his taking decisive actions towards recovery.
I think we are at a place in recovery where it's become time for that - or it's become what I need, rather. I have been letting him know what I need. I don't always do the greatest job articulating it to him...but God knows I try.

I know what you mean when you said what you did about not punishing him...that is so hard and has been a problem for me in the past. I'm sure it has probably contributed greatly to the length of time it has taken us to get to this point in recovery.

I would appreciate your FWS perspective on how I can avoid this. Any tactics, techniques, or skills you two have learned would be greatly appreciated. I am an EXTREMELY emotional person (read: I seem to be lacking that hard outer shell of protection that some people possess) and sometimes things hit me HARD!!!

I don't want to hurt him or further damage our relationship out of my own pain.

Boy, am I scared.

I don't know how Sprint did it - but he didn't react (he did react to one detail in which he got up and left the room until he was calm and came back).

But he didn't get mad at me when he asked a question in which I responded honestly to. He cried, and I cried - it was hard for him to hear.

After each "session" he thanked me for being so honest and asked me to give him a bit of time to process it all. In a little bit he always came back, hugged me and said thank you for the honesty. It always made me feel better about being honest.

Something really sickening about the WS is we get so used to lying...that it's almost hard to break that cycle. So when we stop lying, sometimes it's easier to not talk about it.

I know when Sprint did react, at that time I would think - man - why did I tell him that - I shouldn't have - it was a mistake. And in actuality it wasn't a mistake - but that's how it made me feel. Luckily, he always came back and thanked me later - no matter what his reaction.

So warn Patriot - I may react, but give me time...and when you are ready - thank him, show him how much it meant that you were HONEST - even if the honesty hurt you dearly - reassure him that HONESTY helps.

Maybe for your sake, do it in steps - write down what you want to go through first - how they met? etc, then stop when you feel you are starting to explode and are going to LB. Rescedule to continue the next night. This might mean a week or so of BAD NIGHTS,but when it's all out you guys can move on.

I also opened up too because I knew if I didn't I was going to lose Sprint.

LEt Patriot know you can't move on unless you guys talk about this...

Anyways - I hope this helps?

-ds

DS,

Thank you. It helped immensely.

Patriot knows we are basically at a standstill because of this...and I must admit the delay is not entirely his fault. Our first MC actually ordered him not to tell me anything or answer any of my questions! That impeded our progress, for sure.

On second thought, he was lying about a lot of the details anyway, and I was LB'ing the crap out of him with every truth (or lie) he gave me during that time. So maybe everything happens for a reason...

I don't want to drag it out any more than is absolutely necessary, and I've told him that. It's like each time the skin begins to heal over the wound a little - it gets ripped open again and each time it gets harder and harder to go back there. I don't want to go back...I want to move foward. But it seems as though we've come to a place where our recovery is plateaued because this issue keeps coming up. He understands the need and he seems willing. We discussed last night how much we are both dreading it.

I will definitely try Sprint's "leave the room" technique. I think I will put a spin on it and try the "take a walk" technique. I will also remember what you said about thanking him for his honesty. Thanks for sharing your experience in this with me.

Know what I wish? I wish that while he told me I had someone to hold my hand and comfort me. I know he can't do it, and I haven't told anyone else and wouldn't want anyone else to hear it anyway. I know it's humiliating for him, but it's humiliating for me, too. I just wish that I had someone to help me be strong in that moment(s) so I wouldn't have to feel so alone - just a weak thought.

If you let him,

I bet he would hold your hand and comfort you. When I saw Sprint hurting as I told him these things, I wanted to comfort him so badly. Most of the time he let me, sometimes he just needed some time, and when he was ready he would put his head on my chest or lap and I would run my hand through his hair.

But of course he had to let me.

And when you are ready, you will find someone you feel okay talking to.

-ds

I posted this in Recovery, but thought I'd post it here as well, for a true update...

What a day yesterday, eh? It's gonna be pretty hard to top that one.

I've been pondering this morning how Patriot and I suddenly went from the place we have been to the place we were yesterday, and I don't know...I think it's been many factors and not just a single one. I think some of the biggest factors have been these:

*We have continued to try to learn, albeit slowly sometimes - which is okay, I think, as sometimes we seemed to have needed to pause and reflect and let things "sink" in a bit. We both agree that we had no clue how to have a relationship before.

*I think I needed some time to begin healing. I realize that I have only just BEGUN. It has only been very recently that I stopped wishing and praying I would die.

*Mine and Patriot's recovery styles have been very different. I would grow a tiny bit and then stop for awhile, taking only baby steps. Sometimes I have even backslid, while Patriot has seemed to grow at a more steady pace, taking one step at a time - almost always forward.

*We have had constant support - Gimble has been invaluable to us, constantly prodding us forward.

*Probably the most major revelation we've had recently...I had been trying to articulate to Patriot for months what I needed from him and couldn't. I kept defining it as "pursuit", and not only was HE not getting it - I had also tried to explain it to others, so that they might be able to interpret it for me in a way that Patriot would understand. They had no clue what I was really talking about, either. One evening, last week, Patriot ventured to discuss "co-dependency" with me. I think he was kind of trying to confront me about it so he could get me some sort of help for it. He presented his argument (we have always been big fans of the movie 'A Few Good Men' and we often hold discussions or debates using a courtroom format - we think it's funny for some reason), and for my rebuttal I ran in the other room and printed the article from this site 'How the Co-Dependency Movement is Ruining Marriages'. I had never even read the article, but I had seen the title listed here and figured it might aid my cause. I read it aloud to him. To my astonishment...there, IN PRINT, was what I had been trying to articulate to him for months...THERE WAS 'PURSUIT', defined. Suddenly, he understood. It was such a relief...to feel validated. Not only did it shoot his argument all to hell, he totally agreed with the article and strived to be 'co-dependent', as well. We BOTH got it. What a major turning point for us!

Another amazing aspect of that, maybe the most amazing of all, was that a couple of days before that, I felt so distant from him that we had a little argument about it and I slept on the couch. I was getting tired of feeling distant from him, and he was tired of feeling like a failure. When I went into the living room, before I went to sleep, I got down on my knees and cried and prayed to God. The only words that would come to mind were "God, please bring me my husband, if it is Your will for me to be with him, PLEASE bring my husband to me."

I know that God led me to print that article. Maybe He didn't do it before then because I was still feeling so trapped by my own pain, and maybe He knew that Patriot hadn't arrived at a place where he could comprehend or accept it fully - I don't know.

I spent all day yesterday glorifying God for answering my prayer. I KNOW that this is the man that God created for me to love and be loved by. I have known it from the first week we met, and I've never been more sure of it than I am now. There is just too much about 'us' that fits, and that is precisely why I stayed after D-Day.

Recovery is hard, hard word. Nothing in my life has been harder or more painful, nor more rewarding (never thought I would hear myself say THAT) - and we're just at the beginning! Imagine what there might be to come! I'm very thankful that God has His own will for me, because if He had listened to mine - I'd be dead now.