OK, I am over three months out from d-day now... some days I feel as if I am no better off!

Been working on myself spiritually, meeting personal goals (like not eating out everynight to save $) and trying to work on *me* (I say trying cause the last week has been rough) and just trying to go forward.

FWH has refused to move home, "not the right time". He's been out 2.5 months now and I have made it clear that I have grown quite tired of the waiting game. I am nearly certain he is not having an active A right now, as certain as I can be just 3 months out.

Still, I am just about worn out playing this mess through! FWH shows up here like he is aguest w/ "benefits". He eats with us everynight, I still wash his clothes, fulfill his every need...yes even that, and I feel as if I get very little in return.

I am all for Plan A and I think I have done alot. I do love my H and I want my M to survive. After him having two separate As I think I am doing very well to even still be fighhting for "us"... still, I am soooooo tired!

How long am I supposed to be patient? How much am I supposed to endure in the name of "love"? It reaches a point where I feel, for my own sanity, that I must draw a line in the sand and say "to here and no further..." and I fear that I am getting periously close to that point...

Am looking for some input and thoughts, thanks!

well you stop doing his laundry, you stop cooking his meals and you start treating him like the outsider he has turned himself into. He can not have all the freedom to decide weather or not he wants to come join his FAMILY for dinner or not, not come pick up his clean clothes get a piece of tail and then head off into the night to do what ever and leave all responsiblity behind. I would never change anything if I had it as good as he does, no honey do list, no nothing I did not want, and if something uncomfortable happened, I could just leave and know that my doteing wife would be there the next day.
This is NOT meant as a 2x4- just honey please stop being his maid his cook, his "toy" and his babysitter. He either needs to treat you like his wife and take his part as a husband or he needs to stop reaping all the benifets.

HMMMMMMMMM says Ark to Alex Trebeck (?sp)

"I'll take what to do with fence sitting cake eating FWH's for 1,000"

"the question" reads Alex quickly....

What should one do with a fws
who shows up here like he is aguest w/ "benefits". He eats with us everynight, I still wash his clothes, fulfill his every need...yes even that, and I feel as if I get very little in return.



WHAT IS PLAN B is my answer Alex....says ark^^ after ringing in quickly....

ding ding ding ding ding ding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ARK quickly moves on to the next category...
common curse words banned on message boards for 1,000 also

nice one arc^^ I liked that answer. I agree with you 100% fence sitting cake eating spouses need to be shot off their perch!

TNT:

Do you love him? Do you feel like there is mutual love and respect?

If you can answer yes to both of these questions, then you have a strong base for recovery.

IMHO, he is feeling pretty good about showing up whenever he wants to, having s#x, clean laundry, food, etc whenever he wants to. He is almost being "rewarded" for his previous behavior.

Trust me, I know how hard it is to do Plan A, it can be very humbling at times, esp to your own ego. I was lucky, my W for the most part was very conscious of trying not to hurt me, or make me feel bad. I am not sensing that from your H. I am not sensing an effort from him to work on your M. It does appear he is at times enjoying the cake-eating aspect right now. He may not be still engaging in an A, but he also is not engaged in "reality". He appears to be acting almost like a teenager in some respects, laundry done, dinner done, HIS needs fulflilled without the same being applied on his part for you.

I feel for you, you must be so tired and I know you have had a bad week. But as you know, we will all support you and see you through this. Short term. Long term.

hugs

beavis

RN:

Posted to you down on Recovery.

*"About time", she says.*

<sorry> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

My BAD!

If you do really want to save your marriage then you need to start having no contact with him. Right now he is getting what he needs from you (and possibly OW) so he sees no reason to change anything. I've been there and am there so I know how you feel. But, you need to back off and let him decide, don't try to pressure him. You need to stop doing things for him, and once he stops getting sex and laundry from you he will start thinking about coming back. Even though your hurting right now, It's best to not show him that. Show him that you're doing fine without him and when you talk to him try to do it when your in a good mood. Don't call him and don't tell him you need him, let him come to you, let him start chasing after you rather than you always chasing him. Stop putting yourself through hell seeing him all the time while he's still jumping the fence. I hope everything works out and I hope he realizes that you love him enough to work things out with him despite all the pain he's put you through.

WOW! I got some good, thought provoking responses!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"... and leave all responsiblity behind." EXACTLY!!!! Bingo! Sorry, arc, wrong game, right?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

This is my whole point to him...the day after I said this, he did hang the curtain rods he has been promising to for 5 monthns... does that count?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I am trying to pull back, stop calling him...make him do the work, still it is very hard. How do I suddenly shut off the love and caring I have been providing for 14+ yrs!?

It has been a very humbling experience, going through this A... so much is different this time around. *I* am different. I lean heavily on my faith, and I cannot risk my own happiness at this point. I have three children who need me to be sane and happy!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The Lord has provided me this awesome new job...and I know I can be very happy there. I cannot risk this opportunity, I cannot take the chance of not doing my best...therefore, withdrawling from all the work I have been doing for this M must be scaled back, as I am not superwoman and I cannot do it all! Esp alone!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

This sucks...maybe I am expecting too much, maybe it is the same old, same old...*ME* asking more than he can be...

He is still going to counseling, he does help with the kids... he did give me some $$ for groceries today. Yes, I know how pathetic that sounds!!

Just so the record is staright: he is not going out at night, he leaves here and goes to the trailer...he calls me everynight when he gets there, it is a new "routine" for us. I know he is there cause the cell phone signal is not great. He is here almost every morning... he is not only on days he has to be to the new spa job in the early hours. He still wears his wedding band (sometimes) and he is not out there looking for a replacement for me (least not now!! )

He helps with child stuff...school drop-offs and pick-ups... this is actually the most AM routine stuff I have had ever had to do, as he was always the AM routine parent... He is not good with housework, but then again he never has been. He has done his own laundry (here) sometimes, but only cause his laundry is at the trailer sometimes when I am washing everyone elses! Dinner... well we made a schedule and he has one day a week, I have two and each older child has two... we will see if he sticks with that!

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! I don't want to have to do what I know I have to do!!!!

(I take it to mean shut it off inside yourself).

Who said you have to shut it off?

In reality, you'll be "protecting" that Love......not abandoning it.

The quickest way for you to Lose your Love ........is to continue down the road you've been on.
Every time your frustrated, every time you feel disrespected, and with every LBer....your Love Bank is being drained!

However, Remember if you do decide on a Plan B.........that for it to be truly effective.....you need to have done a Good Plan A FIRST.

Don't forget that they work hand in hand.....and one is dependent on the other.

So, how goes your plan A (as your only 3 months into all this)?

NOW, As far as being sane........hopefully you still are (although many of us were not at 3 months).

I know I sure wasn't.....NOT even Close.

Same thing with being happy.

NOT saying it shouldn't be a Goal!

But my goodness, I just think your Just Asking WAAAAAAY to Much of Yourself to be Expecting to be [color:"red"]Happy [/color] just 3 months post D-day.

Perhaps your simply setting your [color:"blue"]expectations [/color] Too High (and thereby setting YOUR Self up for these Huge Falls)?
Maybe?

*******************
[And if above, you meant "shut it off" as far as physically giving and doing things for your H].....the answer is go cold turkey.

Its simply a Habit that you are USED to doing and therefore you CAN retrain yourself to NOT do in about a month.

Easiest way is to put another habit in its place.

[Tried to cover my bases there, in case I misunderstood your inital message]. That happens to me sometimes.

TNT,

Bob Pure last week posted a very poignent thread on a spineless BS that did all he could, and much more, plan Aing.

It ended very sadly.

When I hear "Fence Sitting" it usually means the WS is loving the lover and loving the "MOM" or the home and family. Does he have another? If so a good hard Plan B will knock him off his perch.

If he doesn't, then he is getting comfortable being single and married. Having his own space and being taken care of by you. A kind of fence sitting that still demands the same solution.

Plus the kids see him and YOUR actions accomadating him. What example is this for them? Are you sanctioning his actions and life style? Is this what they see? Is this the "normal" life that they can expect?

Life is way, way too short to be miserable.

A strong plan B. If he bails, good for you! If he comes back, will he do it again in a year?

Spiritually, you know the answer! So why the question?

That's all I got.

God bless you.

k

TNT:

Part of PLAN A is negotiating with him to come up with a PLAN to recover your marriage. That cannot happen with him living apart. There seems to be a need for continued discussion about why he is not coming home? He does need to be able explain this to you. What is his answer to that question? That answer will determine whether or not you need to do PLAN B. PLAN B is often necessary for a cakeeater. It was for mine. He wins the prize as a CAKEEATER! I had to bring it to a stop. PLAN B for 3 months. GREAT RECOVERY for over 18 months.

TR: I guess I mean both...shutting off the inside that pours out, the love I do have for him. I also mean it is very difficult to stop the "doing" part... I am Type 2 (Helper!!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

K: Do I think he will do it again in a year?! I didn't think he'd do it again this time!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I sure as he&& hope not, but if he does...well, it's not in my control, never was... what can I do? I have already made the decision to stay in this M at the moment... I love him, I know him so deeply, and he knows me. We are still very good friends...always have been. We talk, alot, and we have fun together. There is still alot there.

I do have the option of walking away, obviously I am not there yet... If I felt there was no hope, that there was no effort, if there was nothing there... but there is, on all counts. <sigh>

Mimi: The negotiations are ongoing, trust me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> There is often discussion about the M and our future...the discrepancy is the opinions. This is where we have the most problems...

See, I am a "reforming" control freak, and H's biggest issue in our relationship is that he has had very little control (or even say so at times). One of my biggest goals is to live more in line with my Christian fsaith and the role of a "Godly weife"... this means the H is the head and the W is the heart. This means that *I* must let go of the expectqations I have and yeild to his will (within much reason!!) It isn't lie that so no 2x4s about abuse and such...I am still a very strong willed woman and this is a difficult thing for me.

Over 7 yrs ago now, H broke his back. The roles shifted then & there. Suddenly *I* was head of household, *I* was doing it all... they never went back! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> This is also a clear point of shifting satisfaction (for us both!!). I was wrong for continuing to keep all the control, and *he* was wrong for not "stepping up" and taking responsibilities when he could.

So you see, I can insist, beg, plead, manipulate him home, but it is not right and goes against what I am honestly trying to do. He is not home yet cause he is worried that he cannot committ to the changes he is making. He is fearful he will repeat without healing to "this" level... just doesn't know quite what that level is. He has never been going at expressing his feelings.

Right now, I am trying to get out of the Lord's way... Plan A for real, huh?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

OH YEAH!! There are no current "others", and I do not believe he is acting single (maybe sampling some). He wears his wedding ring when he is not working, he is here all the time and he does not appear to be looking for my replacement (yet! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />) He simply does not sleep here. And yes, it irks me to no end!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

TNT,

"what can I do? I have already made the decision to stay in this M at the moment..."

So what are we talking about? What ever he wants, you provide. He is happy and you have not reached your limit yet.

ie: "I do have the option of walking away, obviously I am not there yet..."

So quit your .......??

"H's biggest issue in our relationship is that he has had very little control (or even say so at times)."

I think he feels he has the control now..sounds like it to me.

Good luck.

k

EDITED TO ADD:
"He is not home yet cause he is worried that he cannot committ to the changes he is making."

Did he say that? He is not home yet because he is "allowed"
to be away. There is no penalty.

Geez, K! What part of Plan A is "penalizing" my H for not doing what I want him to do?!

You seem to think I am just rolling over and playing dead, accepting whatever "scraps" H throws my way...this is very far from the truth!!!

He is going to IC and he has made a committment to "healing", whatever that means. AM I happy wit the status quo? He77 No! BUT I am not ready to shift into Plan B or throw hiom out of my life when I see some effort.

I &^$%# cause it is very hard to be patient...hard to accept that *I* cannot control this situation or simply make it "all better". Yes, that is a naive thought, but how many FBS have not wished that very thing?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I do need support and insight to help *ME* deal with this situation as best I can until #1) I have reached the point where I can no longer see any hope or point in continuing to fight for this M and I must retreat to protect myself (be it with Plan B or D) ~or~ #2) FWH get's his head out of his a$$ and finally, truly "gets it"!

I am sorry that you do not understand this! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

BUT I am not ready to shift into Plan B or throw hiom out of my life when I see some effort.

Hi TNT !

Is your WH 'making some effort' your only boundary here ?

Also plan B isn't you throwing HIM out of your life its you throwing YOU out of HIS life until he decides to work WITH you on recovery exclusively of OW.

Theres a fine line between being a VICTIM of abusive behaviour and a VOLUNTEER for abusive behaviour. Which are you TNT ?

All blessings.

No, of course not Bob. My FWH has been out of the A about a month now.

I would not even be around him now if I had any inclination that the OW was even on his radar!!! I cannot do that, I will not share my H!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

No, except for rough week when he was trying to quit smoking, he has been nice. Not gushing or super attached and not really meeting my top need of affection, but he is trying. He is still in IC, he is always here, he goes to church w us and I see real efforts to change, like being more patient w the kids & even me w my bad moods!

He came to see my new office today and we had lunch together. It was nice. He even cancelled an appt to meet me!

Can you see why I am so confused and frustrated????

AWWWW. I was late on the dinger. That's what I was going to say!

TNT. You've excercised the perfect plan A, he's now got it good. He's discovered you and his family are great.... on his terms.

"FWH. You know I love you, but I can't continue this way where you're not participating in the family, you are welcome back when you want to contribute your fair share.... here's my list of emotional needs, meet them"

It's getting all ready for "yes, even that", and suddenly getting a headache and sending him to sleep on the couch.

How delicious is that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

TNT

Go back and read your first post. You know the answer.

He is getting very comfortable staying away, and he will continue..BECAUSE THERE IS NO PENALTY. Until there is an ultimatum from you..either fish or cut bait..he will continue to enjoy his new and enjoyable lifestyle.

Your plan A is not penalizing him. It seems to be enabling him. No matter if there is an OW or not. He is digging his sitch.

So you will either:

#1) I have reached the point where I can no longer see any hope or point in continuing to fight for this M and I must retreat to protect myself (be it with Plan B or D)

or #2...

HOW IS HE GOING TO GET HIS HEAD OUT OF HIS [censored]? What is going to make him get his head out?

YOU!! Who else? What else will do that? What are you waiting for? Maybe 6 months or a year? He will all of a sudden have a revelation and come home?

May I suggest that..I am sorry that you do not understand?

Many long time MBers here seem to be telling you the same thing and you continue to argue with them and explain your plight and how your sitch is different...but is it?

We are on your side. Stay strong and stand up!

k

EDITED TO ADD:

"No, of course not Bob. My FWH has been out of the A about a month now."

One month since the A? And all is perfect in the world..he is living apart from you and the family but there is no A?? He goes to church with the family..and then goes...????

I wrote the above before your last post. The tone from your first post to the last one has done a 180. Does this seem odd to you? Sometimes we BSs are in our own kind of fog.

k

Yes, I may be be twirling around in circles, but this situation has but me in this place!!

And I have gotten mixed messages, some say "Plan A him home" and then others say "cut him off til he comes home"...yes, I am confused. Wouldn't you be?!

Plus, the "MB way" does not speak of cutting off off a WS unless they are still in an A and you must protect yourself.

You may think me dumb or naive or whatever... I know he is not currently having an A!!! Can I prove it beyond 100% certainty? No, not really (who can?!) but to the best of my abilities, I can see that he is done with the OW.

When I say he is "always" here, I mean he is always here!! He comes over about 6 am every morning to get the kids off to school, he eats breakfast there at the house. He goes to the gym to work out or to work (or both) and I go to work. Most days I hear from him alot throughout the day... he calls to relay a thought or to just say "hi" (like he did a few minutes ago).

In the evenings, after work he comes to the house to eat dinner and spend time with the family. He usually stays until after the kids are in bed. When he gets back to the trailer he always calls to let me know he is out there. I can tell he is becasue the further into the woods he gets the worse the cell phone signal...we lived out there for 2+ yrs, I know the area well!!

When he has an early day he goes and gets DD4 from preschool. The other day when DS had a half day at school he picked him up and took him out for lunch and a movie. Yesterday he came to the hospital and had lunch with me.

I guess, after typing that all out maybe MY expectations are too high. He is meeting my need by trying to make more $$$ (by getting a 2nd job) and he is very good with his children... all three of them. He is even setting up a conference at DD13's school since I now work 8-5 and cannot get there early enough.

I would love more affection and time alone w/ him...I would love for him to do the old stuff like bring me flowers "just becase" or plan a cool night out for us, alone! I miss snuggling up next to him at night, I miss knowing he is there to protect us if something should happen. These are the needs not being met. That and the whole domestic thing...but I know there are millions of Ws that share that frustration: a H who is not a big help with the home duties!!

If I go along with what you said, k, then wouldn't I be discouraging him from meeting my EN altogehter? I feel like things are so much more calm and peaceful between us...if I do this, cut him off, then we will go back to the war zone. I will simply prove to him that no matter what, it will never be enough This makes no sense to me.

I am trying to reinforce to him that *MY* needs are different then his and just because he is doing what he thinks I want does not mean he is meeting my top ENs... I do see an effort on his part there, being more open with communication, and he says he is planning a date for us next week... we will see!

I do appreciate your input, don't get me wrong. I still feel as if either I am not presenting the situation accurately or I am being misunderstood. I *do* feel he is fence sitting about moving home though, and I am not really sure what his motivation is, but he knows his time is running short there. I think I have made that clear.

Doesn't it seem kinder and more inline with the MB principles to make home an appealing place to be than to force him to follow my will (as usual!)?

Gotta go back to work, lunch is about over... will check in later.