/rant on

Counselors suck. Why is it that we can't find a good one? The last one we both agreed was not up to the task. Too passive, and not understanding enough of my wife's emotions. We both had a lack of confidence in her, and my wife didn't feel comfortable telling her much. So we decided to change. Met the new one last night, and I have to say it takes an especially talented counselor to make things worse! The whole thing turned into an hour-long bash Mike session. It was just wonderful. Of course, my wife was much happier with this one, as she basically confirmed her opinion that I'm worthless with no positive traits whatsoever. I tried to defend myself a bit at first, but after awhile I just shut up. No point in digging myself in deeper. The absolute worst moment was when she asked my wife, incredulously, "Why DID you stay with him all this time?". Now, I will admit that the majority of the problems in the relationship are my fault. I HAVE admitted it, over and over again. "Sorry" has been my mantra the last few months, and I mean it, I am sorry. I'm trying hard to change. But I did not expect a counselor to basically give my wife a license to wallow in the past; I'd like to see us try and move forward. I did not expect her to freaking ENCOURAGE my wife to leave me.

The thing that sucks the most is that, leading up to this appointment, things between us had started to get a little better. The wall of coldness was thawing a bit. The worst part is that on the morning of the appointment, my wife came up to me and hugged me, telling me she really wanted to work on things, and really wanted to try. It was the first time she had touched me in a month, and I was in a euphoric mood all day. Following the appointment, the wall went back up, and I was all the way back down at the bottom of the well of loneliness again. I like rollercoasters but this is too extreme of a ride even for me.

I'll be going to our appointment next week, but I'm going to be very guarded. At the first attack on me, I'm going to voice the fact that nothing is going to be gained by relentlessly bashing me, and that I won't stand for it. At the second, I'm walking out of the appointment. I'm not ashamed to admit the things I've done wrong, and I came right out and said them in the first meeting. But I'm not gonna sit still for a bashing session when I've already been doing it to myself for two months.

/rant off

rant on brutha....

A lot of so-called "marriage counselars" are more like "divorce promoters"

Maybe your money would be better spent with the Harleys?

I hear they can get more accomplished in a couple sessions than most can do in months of sessions by other MC's...

It's worth a try and personally, I wouldn't go back to that one you are going too. Did they outline a plan of attack? A course of treatment? Lay out goals and milestones? Anything?

Try the Harley's bud.

Your Friend
RebornMan

Hi Bassistist,



OK, Ouch! I guess I'm wondering why you are staying with this marriage counselor. Say that to her/him when you leave, ok? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

B, tell Win this MC makes you uncomfortable, respectfully and genuinely. For this very reason you say:


I would tell her you really want to work on what's been wrong in your M, but that you need someone that you BOTH can relate to. Remind her how uncomfortable she was with the first counselor and how that felt.

Don't get angry, or raise your voice, or get confrontational. Tell her it isn't that you don't want to address your problems, it's more that you need someone to help you open up and address them.

If I remember you are going through the EAP. Keep trying. My H and I went through three before we found one we liked. One lady told my H to be more "masculine" in our marriage (because he's a stay at home dad) and told me to go to the nail shop more often to be more feminine. WTF? My H is very masculine and my nails are fine thank you. We eventually found someone much better that worked for both of us.

Good news about the hug. Hang in there, it'll come back. I didn't want anything to do with my H after the end of my A...now I can't keep my hands off that very MASCULINE guy!
GS

Have you tried a male counselor. My Husband seems to feel much more comfortable with a male counselor who can also see and relate to his prespective. Iam fine either way as long as counseling is taking place. Also, if your a Christian I would recommend a Christian Counselor. They tend to be pro marriage.

Also, maybe the counselor was hoping when she asked why she stayed with you it would force your wife to admit to and list your good points.

Hey Stormy

You gotta admit that whatever she was trying to get out of the W with that question, it was certainly worded in a pretty bad way.

I mean if her goal as an MC leans towards saving marriages rather than breaking them up she certainly could have worded it carefully, especially considering she knows the people she see's are on the brink in their marriages.

Like "What was it about him/her that attracted you in the beginning" Or "Think back on the happy times, what was it your spouse did or was doing that brought those feelings out in you?"

I think those are far and away better questions than "Why have you stayed married to him"

What a loaded question for a WS....I can hear the justifications now....

I don't know why I am married to him...It was a mistake....Because I didn't know how to get out of it...We just aren't compatible....because of the kids and on and on....It isn't his fault, I just don't click with him...We've grown apart...

No slam Stormy at all....I just think thats a lousy thing to say to a wayward spouse and to effectively place the blame for her affair on his back.

Thats why I say some MC's are really Divorce negotiators....

Like the one my parents saw that ended their marriage in the 70's...She saw my parents once together and then saw my Dad...then when my Mom went in she told her first thing "Go file for divorce, he is what he is and he won't change"

Now my parents marriage did not have any adultery, no cheating, my Dad's a drinker that was never given the opportunity to quit and change...he made a good living and treated us kids well, treated my mom well, his drinking made him undependable in the home.

I guess what I am getting at is that just like any job, some are good at it and other's aren't.

My parents regret to this day being so hasty but now too much has happened...sad, very sad.

That is one of the many reasons I have a jaundiced eye towards MC's, there are just so many bad ones out there. I don't think it is a coincidence that as soon as MC became a good idea in the late 60's that our divorce rates skyrocketed, obviously I am not saying MC's are a sole factor but a part of the many faceted problem.

sorry for the long winded reply....

I still say seek another MC, preferably the Harley's or trained by them or influenced by them.

Stormy: I'm also seeing an IC (anger management, depression, and selfishness issues), and that one is male. I have to admit, I do get along with him better. He seems to be the best of the three I have seen so far. He asks good questions, directs the sessions well, and seems to know where he is going. Compare that to the two MC's I have seen, the first of whom was kind of lost in space and the second of whom kind of turned me off with one visit.

But I don't know if it's a man/woman thing. Personally, I'm not uncomfortable with talking to either...I've always had female friends and I respect their insights generally more than my male friends. But...I think I can also say that men understand men better than women do. My wife has said she wouldn't be comfortable with a man, so I agreed we would only look at the female counselors our EAP offered.

Gentle Soul: I did tell Winnie I didn't really like this one, but she really didn't want to talk about R issues last night. What sucks is, she feels comfortable with this woman, and she NEEDS counseling. I want her to get the help she needs, and I don't know how she would react if I told her I wanted to try a third counselor. I'm going to give this one another try, maybe it will be better next session.

Thanks for the encouraging bit about you reconnecting with your husband! That's what I want, and I keep hoping for it to happen, but it seems further away today. It's very discouraging when I'm trying to work on things and they just get worse.

Reborn man, I agree I was just trying to see if maybe there was a good intention behind it even though she went about it the wrong way.

"My wife has said she wouldn't be comfortable with a man, so I agreed we would only look at the female counselors our EAP offered." I did not realize that. If she is only comfortable with a women counselor then it is good that you respect that. I do not mean to stereo tyoe, but I talked to three women counselors that I all felt were pressuring me to get a divorce. If I had gone to them for that purpose then I would understand because my marriage has been a hug gigantic unhealthy mess, but I did not go to them for that purpose. I went to them with the purpose of learning how to make the best of my marriage and with the purpose to
try and improve my marriage. I watched a Dr Phil show one time where a women wanted her Husband to leave the OW, come home, and make the marriage work. They shared some the reactions of some of the women viewers. They all said why didn't you help her get out of that horrible marriage and he responded that is not what she was asking help for. The first male counselor I tried was awesome. He got that even though my Husband has cheated, made big istakes, etc. that I still wanted to try and save my marriage. He supported me in this. So, based on my experiences I was mentioning maybe trying a male counselor. Unfortuantely, there are some women counselors that have been burned by a man and let their own personal ecperiences effect their performance as a counselor. But, there are also a lot of great women counselors out there. You might want to ask your counselor why she asked your wife that question. What her motives were and what she was hoping would be the outcome of that question.

That may be the first thing I say next week, assuming I'm still as annoyed about that statement as I am right now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

B -
You know, it actually sounds like a good plan to give this counselor another try. You might warm up to her style, or it might get clearer to Winnie that the counselor is not working for you. I remember our counselor took awhile to get going for me and it worked out in the end.

Be careful in the session on how you come across to Win. State your points, but try not to get defensive. Both of them will eat you alive. If after the session you still feel this counselor was abusive to you, say so. MC is for you too...don't forget that, o.k.?

Yes! My H and I are doing great and I started to feel real warmth for him after about 8 weeks of NC. I went from literally not being able to be in the same room with him at the end of my A, to what is now a wonderful relationship.

Try not to get discouraged this early in recovery. You'll get there too. Winnie is dealing with a lot right now (as are you). Time and patience. You're doing great. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
GS

Thanks for the advice, kind words, and encouragement, Gentle Soul. Beavis is a lucky guy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Mr. B.

Yes I AM a lucky guy, but a few months ago, I was feeling as lucky as a three-legged dog!

Yeah, that one MC made me give up my needlepoint lessons! Darn it! (Just kidding!)

CHOOSE YOUR MC WISELY...

But also, give them a chance to see where they are going, to get a sense of their style of operations. Like GS, I wasnt sure our counselor was OK for us. I think he was more of an indifferent third party, a safehouse where we could air our stories, issues without dropping gloves on each other.

Be patient and give it time. be yourself. Be supportive. Be loving. She will come around and remember what it was about you that made her fall in love with you in the first place, and hopefully, when that happens, you both will have a deeper appreciation for each other than ever before. Would'nt have believed it if I didnt live it myself...



Ever heard the term one step forwards, two steps back? Get used to it for awhile. In retrospect I did some stupid things post-A that I wish I could take back, but golly, those post-A emotions get the best of you and your feelings.

Of course I did some pretty stupid things pre-A too, perhaps leading up to the A in the first place.

Mr B,

I hope you have come to this conclusion though...do not wish for your M to "be the way it was before the A". Not going to happen. You my friend are facing the biggest challenge of your life right now, to weather the storm of yours and her emotions right now, to stay strong and be there for her, to access your own feelings and decide what is best for you, her and your M. Do not take these decisions lightly and give them some thought.

And listen to Winnie right now, she may speak in strange "alienspeak" at times, but bear with her until she comes completely out of the fog. Take a lot of what she says with a grain of salt, she is venting right now and try not to take it too personally or lash out defensively.

A wise friend of mine helped me through this period.. She told me not to look at the day-to-day emotions/actions, but to look at the overall picture, the trends and see how she was changing. This helped me a lot because I would focus on one single incident or trigger that would put me in a painful place, and she would tell me to focus, focus,focus on the past week, the past month and access the progress from that perspective.

For me, my undying love and respect for GS helped guide me through the process. It made me see that she had chosen a misguided path at a particular point in her life. I aint giving up on her, I am relishing the chance to make our relationship better than it was before and always look forward to our future together. With more wisdom, more communication, more empathy and more conviction.

beavis