How long does this take. EA ended in August. WH has left three times since to think. Longest was for a week. shortest 2 days. He last did this just 2 weeks ago. He returned with promises of protecting me and doing everything to make me feel that I didnt make a mistake by taking him back. Now he is "having a really hard time" and he just knows how he feels and he isn't sure if it's too late to fix our problems. One minute it is my fault for taking him for granted 2 years ago. The next it isn't any of my fault because I am such a great person. When can I expect some recovery? I am just exhausted and I want it better before I go crazy. I also finally heard that the non physical affair did involve a lot of kissing. I suspected at least that but it still threw me. He just admitted it last night and then acted like I just didn't remember him telling me a long time ago. I think I would have remembered. I remember his denials. What is the longest withdrawal that I can expect?
BS 37 (me) WH 37 DS 16 DD 14 DS 12
EA lasted 10mos with my close friend (now ex)
Married 17 years Together 20+

Addendum...

Affair ended in January. He just finally told me the "truth". He last called her a month ago to see how she was doing. Kissing and fondling occurred. I gave him this list of condition...
1. No contact with her
2. Any contact is to be told to me upon seeing me and to avoid future conditions that led to contact.
3. Affair continues...he leaves.
4. Write her a letter to end it for sure and I get to approve it and mail it.
5. Marriage counseling for minimum of 6 mos. To end when counselor and we agree.
6. Commit to marriage.
7. Church every week like we used to.

He had the option to leave. I didn't beg him to stay but told him that I loved him and was willing to do everything I can to improve our relationship. He chose to stay and meet those conditions. Plan A is on. What do you think of the conditions?

Okay, it's time for some analyzing. Who is the OW? Why is he ending the A now? Do you have any kids? He must know the A is wrong because he keeps coming back. Good. Great position for you.

How can you ensure NC? Do you have access to his email, cell phone, etc? If not, get them. When/how does he see OW? His whereabouts need to be accounted for 24/7.

Yes, find an MC and sign up for Retrouvaille.

Unfortunately, Plan A has just begun. Do you know his ENs? Have you stopped all LBs? That is your first step. Give yourself a time limit and gather some support. You will need it.

Have you read "Suviving An Affair", yet. Hang on, your M is worth it!

OW was my friend and mom of our kids friends. We live in a small town. everyone know everyone kind of place. 3 kids ages 16,14 and 12. He doesn't say it was wrong but feels guilty for hurting me and kids. Cell phones are cancelled. He last called her using pay phone. Accountability has improved. Saw MC for 1st time last pm. I went to this visit. H goes next week. Sessions will be by ourselves for a while per MC suggestion. ENs are hard to figure out but I am working on it. He is still in the fog. Trying to eliminate LBs. Trying to not be depressed and anxious. Going on meds soon to help. What do you think about hiring a PI?

Ugh, a friend, double betrayal. I'm so sorry. Is she married? If so, call her husband NOW. Working together, you guys can monitor contact, etc. I wouldn't hire a PI. You will have an instinct about things, whether he's had contact or not. Everyone needs this instinct in some way through out their M. You need to be able to feel that you are emotionally connected or not. Okay, you are officially in Plan A. You need to remind him why he fell in love with you all those years ago. Are you a SAHM or do you work outside the home? Who are you? Who do you want to be? What do you want out of your M and your life? This is the time to start concentrating on you. When you have shed the insecurities and the anxiety, you will allow your beautiful, confident self to come through. Then he will take notice, then he will start to wonder, then he will be willing to give it a try. Get in touch with the real you. Find a babysitter, pick up a new hobby, reconnect with an old friend. Take care of yourself. You will need to detach yourself emotionally from the situation, but you can't do that if your self-esteem is in the toilet. Do you have family near? Do your friends know? You will need a support system.

Come on, you know his ENs. Hasn't he been complaining for the past whatever years? Mine complained for 3 years till the A woke me up. It's time to wake up! Is he looking for a friend, is he looking for admiration, does he like to talk? And stop the LBs now. No matter which ENs you fulfill, it doesn't matter if you are still LBing. You need to find peace somewhere, somehow. Go buy "Surviving An Affair" right now. I bought it off this website, but it's also on Amazon and in bookstores.

Remember, your WS married you for a reason. Rekindle the person you were all those years ago. Make your home a happy place for him. You won't believe this, but you will have to be his friend before he can be your fully-committed husband again. How would you treat a friend who was hurting, who didn't know where to turn? How would you treat him or her? That is how you treat WS right now.

I know it's hard. I Plan A'd for 4 1/2 excruciating months. I was not perfect, but I would read this site or write a post and someone would offer me a lifesaver. It would keep me going for a few more days when I'd falter again.

Please consider going to Retrouvaille or some other marriage workshop. It taught us how to reconnect emotionally.

How are your kids doing? Do they know? Be thankful for them. They will be your key in getting WS to commit. Plan some family outings. Remind him of what he will miss if he continues the A. Can you do anything fun this weekend?

You are here because you want to save your M. The path for a BS is not easy, but this is a proven method. Now, the A is a distant memory for us and the thought of it does not kill me anymore. You *can* save your M.

Loni,

Welcome, but sorry you are here. You are in great pain but there is a lot of help here on this forum.

I think what has struck me in reading your thread is that I am not so sure NC has been met? Am I Right? There cannot be a true recovery until he breaks off contact for good, never again and is completely HONEST with you. It may be hard for him, but it will never get better for you until that event happens...

ALso, read about Plan A, and also TRY and be good to yourself during this process right now. Stay healthy, try and keep your self-esteem intact (I know its very hard), try and do something for yourself that you enjoy to relieve the mental pressure you are facing right now.

IMHO, I wouldnt place too many demands on him right now, he seems to be cake-eating to me right now, and you dont want him to choose his just desserts unwisely, right?

Stay strong, be your own person, learn, try to move on, dont expect too much to hapen in a short period of time, be patient, just be

take care

beavis
BS too....

Thank you so much for the insights. He called her yesterday after work from a payphone. He says that they only talked for a few minutes. He says he really misses her and misses the friendship. That's kind of funny because I miss the friendship I thought I had with her. And I definitely miss the friendship I had with my husband. I found out about the call because we went to bed last night and I woke when he got out of bed. Must have been God whispering in my ear because H was sooo quiet. I had a bad feeling and picked up the extension upstairs. I only heard him refer to something she was supposed to do that day and that told me that he had talked to her recently. I had a meltdown. I cried, pushed him, tried to hit him. Then I locked myself in the walk in closet sobbing. All he could say at first was that he was sorry. He said it over and over. I told him sorry is not enough, no where near enough. When I came out, he kept telling me that I deserve so much better than him. He wants to do the right thing but he really misses her and just wanted to see how she was doing? He asked me if I could ever forgive him. He said that he hates that he hurt me that much and he knows that I love him. I am hurt, really hurt. I debated all of my options. None of them are what I want. Divorce him? That doesnt stop the pain. Forgive him and continue with Plan A? How long before I get hurt again. I already feel like this has chipped away at my soul. When will I have enough and how much of me will be left? Pick up the kids and move? That will require changing jobs and hurting my kids by taking them away from all that they know. Suicide? Ends my pain but just begins the pain for my kids. Run away by myself and leave it all behind? Kids, H, her, reminders. So there are my options. What do you think? He wants to stay,and wants to do whatever I ask of him to improve the M. I am hurting so badly right now that I can't even begin to meet his ENs. Depression is a huge LB but I don't think I can pretend to be OK. I'm not OK. I feel ugly and used up and hopeless. What happens when I get even older and it shows on my face and in my body. Sorry, guess I am in the self pity mode.

What is Retrovaille? You have mentioned it a couple of times.

I have figured out what the EN was that she met. He says that she made him feel like he was not inadequate. He says that I made him feel inadequate as a man. I think he is referring to money, friendship, sex etc... I have been working overtime to show him that he is what I want and all that I want. He says the big LB was my anger over little things, like taking too long on projects away from house.

Come on, Loni! Get with the program. When you picked up the extension and had a meltdown, that is an LB. I know you can't imagine NOT freaking out, but if you want to give your M a chance, you have to figure out how to stay in control. That is what Plan A is about. You will not believe how much of this has happened over and over and over again. It's like a script that most As go through.

Run out and buy "Surviving An Affair"! You're not going to get anywhere until you get the basics of Plan A under your belt.

You want to know why the Plan A/B forum is empty? Because it is so incredibly hard. No one wants to do it. No one believes they can do it, but the ones that did it are on the recovery board. Try it. For just one evening. Try to put your M first. I'm not asking you to put WS first and I'm certainly not telling you to put you first (that's what gets us in trouble), put your M first.

And right now that requires calm and understanding. What are your evenings like right now? Can you have a quiet dinner together? REMEMBER, he is coming home to you. Why is that? What's wrong with the OW?

And you haven't answered my basic questions. Who is she? Have you told her H, yet? That is the first thing you should do.

BTW, you are not supposed to forgive and then do Plan A. Plan A is just a way to get the A to end. Forgiveness comes much later.

You don't need to be whole to do Plan A. All you need is the desire to do one nice thing for your WS. Just one, tiny little thing. And the strange thing is that when you do something nice for him, he will do something nice for you and then you will find that it's easier to do something nice the next time.

You will be on this horrible emotional rollercoaster for awhile, but you need to get control of yourself for your sake, for your kids' sake, and for your M.

Again, the same questions. How are your kids doing? Do they know?

Retrouvaille is a weekend program for married couples in crisis. It is offered by the Catholic Church, but anyone is welcome. Religion is not discussed, except that a priest (along with two other couples) leads part of the weekend. It helps to get you back to an emotional intimacy with your mate and teaches you how to communicate more effectively. Please check it out.

Okay, he is giving you some info that you can use in terms of his ENs. Some people need more admiration than others. You probably cannot even think of anything to admire about him right now, but try to think. Did he do anything today that you appreciated? Even something as small as take the kids to school? Thank him for it. That's all you need to do for now.

No, the A is not over as long as there is contact. But this is the time to show him what he may be missing. What are doing to get back in touch with who you are? Did you start your meds, yet? Do you have a best friend? Does your family know?

Thanks for the support and the info.

In answer to your ???. Meds started day before yesterday. No effects yet. Kids know and have known since beginning. Her H knows and they were seperated before the A started. Part of the allure was the crying on my H's shoulder for the treatment her H was giving her. She is unashamed by her own admission and quite bold. She told me that I am crazy for not divorcing my H. She even asked me how the sex was knowing that he is in love with her. Uggh.

You are so right that this is hard. Even my pastor has suggested that I make him leave. I am beyond hurt but I still want to hope.

I looked up the Retrouvaille site and there are some weekends coming up in our area. How can I bring this up with him without sounding like I am on another self-help kick? Should I discuss it with our counselor and let him bring it up? So far our counselor is seeing us one at a time. I see him for the 2nd time this Wed. H likes him and seems to be with the program.

I agree with the forgive after the repair. I don't know right now if I even can forgive him. I really think that I shouldn't until he has shown real initiative and remorse. He seems to be almost there but sometimes reverts back to stubborn and angry.

I really want to move from the area. The A will not be over unless we do because it is a small town and the kids are too close to each other.

Please know that I appreciate your input. Thank You.

Loni

Ugh, you got one of those nasty OWs. Sometimes I think friends are the *worst*. First things first, you are never to talk to OW. Never call or email. And if she tries to contact you, hang up. If she has your email, change it, etc.

It's just a psychological game. When the OW feels desperate, she will lash out. Ummm...how does she feel about her lover going back to his wife every night? If she was the 'one', wouldn't he have left by now?

Plan A is a very difficult time. You need to do everything in your power to keep your strength and resolve.

I'm glad you checked out Retrouvaille. Hmmm...you don't think he's interested in saving your M? Why is he going to MC? You might have to have a heartfelt chat with him. Tell him that you've been hurt terribly, but own up to your own flaws in your M. Tell him you have heard that marriages can be rebuilt and even improve after an A. Tell him you want to give it a try. Tell him that your family is worth the effort. Then ask if he would attend Retrouvaille with you.

BTW, have you purchased "Surviving an Affair", yet? I only keep repeating it cuz it shows you the road map. When we are in the middle of Plan A, we just can't imagine anything getting any better. At least in reading the book, you can see how it worked for others. Please, please, pick up that book.

How are your kids doing? They must be devastated. Our baby was only a year old during the A, but I'm sure she felt the tension and hostility in our house.

Hang on to your babies tight. They are the reason your H has not let go. You may not think they should be the reason he stays and it's not. They are the reason he is thinking of staying, your hardwork on recovering your M is the reason you will both stay.

Have you been able to have any fun times? Do you guys do stuff as a family on the weekends? That is your next assignment. Think of a simple family outing you guys used to enjoy. Plan one for this weekend. No relationship/family talk. Just have fun. ALL of you need that right now.

Yes, people will tell you to send him packing. And you may still need to, but the best road to recovering your M is through Plan A and that requires that you are together. But you do have to monitor yourself and make sure your love for WS is not gone completely. Give yourself a time limit. 3 months is the recommended time.

This time is to allow the WS to get a glimpse of what he may be missing. To make him have second thoughts. To keep him guessing.

BTW, even my therapist said she would kick out her H if he had an A.

A BS thinks that the WS and OW control her world, but it doesn't have to be that way. Plan A allows you to call the shots and leaves everyone else scrambling to figure out what is going on. A good Plan A is a BS who is confident and assured. She is confident that she is the best partner for WS and he will come to his senses eventually. She becomes a beacon of light, a stable force in the WS' life. His life is quickly becoming unraveled and he will crave the peace and calm that the BS projects. That is your goal.

My WS has thanked me for not giving up on him and our M.

Don't worry about your ability to forgive at this time. I know you just can't imagine forgiving anyone who has done this to you. Your only goal right now is to do a flawless Plan A. The rest will fall into place.

As for WS' remorse, it may take a while to see that. First of all, the A has to end. For my WS, it didn't happen until 3 months after NC. I think he actually had a taste of hell.

Have you asked WS about moving? What does he say? If the A is not over, that will be hard to accomplish. But once he has reengaged in the M, push for a move.

And finally, what have you done for yourself lately? Do you work full-time? Do you have friends you can confide in? Is your family near?

I am trying to take every day one at a time. Thinking about tomorrow is too much for now.

Definately talking to her was not the best thing to do. She is a closet psycho. In my opinion of course. Am currently doing everything to avoid her. There are a few school events coming up but I will be surrounded by friends to help act as an insulator.

He says he does want to work on the marriage but I think he is also in withdrawal so his moods and opinions change by the minute. That is why I am concerned about bringing up the retrouvaille getaway. I think that if the MC brings it up he might be more receptive. I think that he believes I have been manipulating him for the entire marriage and he will reject anything that sounds like manipulation. Even though I just want to try anything that will help bring us both the happiness and peace that we can have with a good marriage. MC appt is Wed.

The kids are doing OK. They have seen and heard more than they should ever have. I hope that they still have some innocence left. They have learned some lessons about their parents and marriage that I wish they could have waited much longer for. The only saving grace, I think, would be if we manage to make it through this with our family intact. I am sad that my dd(14yrs) is questioning God's commitment to her because her prayers for reconciliation and the affair to end have gone unanswered so far. I just try and reassure her that God does have a plan for each of us but we have our own free will that enables us to follow or not. I will pray for her and the boys.

The book has been ordered and I should have it within the next few days. This website has been incredibly helpful and full of info. God bless everyone involved with it.

You make a great point about that he isn't with her so there must be reasons for it. I will try to remember that I am in my rightful place acting as the wife. She has no right to be with my H and I have every right in the world to do whatever I need to do to reach a reconciliation. I still feel love for my H but I am having a horrible time with the things he has said to both me and to her about me. The thoughts of them together makes me hurt all over again and it is all I can do to not just curl up and cry. I don't know if I will get over this and I don't know if I will be able to forgive. I guess that will be figured out at a later time.

I work full time days as a nurse. My H works the same shift. Have plenty of friends praying and supporting me. Several that would gladly move her out of town for me. ha ha. I have been so busy trying work on the marriage, I have almost forgotten what I like to do. I have started reading novels by my favorite authors again and doing my nails and hair to make myself feel good.

I will find something to do with the family this weekend for fun. Thanks for the support. Please continue to answer. Need to hear from people who have been there and back. God Bless

((hugs)) I can tell you are trying so very hard. This really is a horrible time for you, so please just try to make yourself feel better just for one moment a day. I'm so glad you have friends around you. It is so hard to do this all alone.

And when you go to those school functions, you are in charge. Don't let her rattle you. You look your best and you walk in there with nothing to hide and a big smile on your face. She's the one that should be rattled, she's the one that should be ashamed.

Well, your WS says he wants to work on your M. Do you know how lucky you are? Some BS' come on here and their WS left on d-day. Count your blessings and fight for your M!

Okay, now is the time to start listening to WS. He says you've been manipulating him all this time. Why does he say that? Can you understand why he would feel this way?

The only way ANY marriage can recover is that both people understand what their spouses have been going through. Now, it is time for you to try to understand what happened with your WS. What is he unhappy with? What does he need?

Unfortunately, he is waiting to see if you change. It's a rotten position to be in. He is the one that had the A, but this is what happens. They want to see us change before they decide to commit to the M.

And that is what Plan A is about. It is about you looking at yourself. Who you've been, who you are, who you want to be. Yes, you will change, but not to save your M. You will change because of the person you want to be. The funny thing is that the WS starts to recognize the person he fell in love with many years ago.

I don't really have advice on how to take care of your children during this time. Unfortunately, they can understand all too well what is going on. BUT your reaction, your demeanor during this time, will help or hurt your children. You need to stay calm and in control when you talk to them about what is going on. You can admit to your hurt, but keep reassuring them that no matter what happens their parents will always love them.

I know. The hurt will stay with you for awhile, yet, but it does subside. Now, I actually try to bring up those feelings again, but they are more like facts rather than feelings. Yes, my H had an A, but so many good things have happened since then, it almost like a faded memory.

I liken an A to getting a diagnosis of cancer. It can be the most devastating thing in a person's life, but when we recover, we become very grateful. Have you ever heard of someone describe cancer as almost a good thing in their life? They would not wish it on anyone else, but it's like it wakes you up. Loni, the alarm is ringing.

You guys are both working full-time with 3 kids. I bet life is stressful and doesn't allow much time to just *be* together. Do you usually have alot of stuff planned on the weekends?

So what are your evenings like? Do you get to spend some quality time together? Do you eat dinner together?

One of Harley's recommendations is for a couple to spend 15 hours a week together. No kids, no other obligations. Just time to talk and reconnect. Can you start working on spending more time together?

I think he believes that he gave in to me on all the major decisions in our marriage. E.G. the house, cars etc.... He esp. feels that the choices we made put us in financial hardship. I thought we were compromising but he felt he just gave in. Poor communication on both our parts. Should have been following the mutual agreement rule from MB. We have talked about that rule and have agreed to follow it from this point on.

The NC rule is extremely difficult to follow. She is everywhere. MC has told my H to keep any contact that happens business like. I have told H that the occasional wave or "hi" hurts me but I will only worry about it if he can't control the impulse to call her or see her. I have been honest about my concern that any contact will make it harder to control those impulses. He was irritated with the conversation and says that he is doing his best and I can't freak everytime he sees her on the street. I just know that he has lied so many times so how am I supposed to believe he is avoiding her?

I am starting to feel some relief from the symptoms of depression. Sleeping better, moods more predictable. Will start exercise and healthy diet to feel better about looks and it should help emotionally too.

Will try to come up with something fun for the family this weekend. Thanks for the suggestion. The kids are one of his big reasons for wanting to work things out with me. Might as well make the most of that and wait for the love to return for me that he used to have. Withdrawal is the worst part of this and I should know since he has been in perpetual withdrawal for 14mos. The A has been off and on for that whole time. Of course, I was led to believe it was off until I was told it was off again. Does that make sense?

Anyway, I am trying to show patience and kindness for my H even though I still feel so much anger and hurt. Sometimes I look at him and honestly wonder if he will ever be the man I thought he was. Sometimes I wonder if I should even forgive him. Time will tell.

Still want to move but H is dead set against it. It would involve a lot of serious hassle with jobs and kids. I wish that she would move. Do you think there is even a chance if we all continue to live in the same town?

thanks for the support
Loni

Congrats! I'm feeling alot of hope in your last post. This will be hard, for both of you, but it is so worth it. In the middle of the A, we went to an amusement park with friends. I was dying inside and was usually tearing up when no one was looking. I'm really surprised no one picked up on it. But last Friday we went back for the first time since then and I just feel so grateful that we were able to have a wonderful time as a family. Even WS said it was the best time he's ever had there.

It does get better, but you won't believe that for awhile, yet. You are in a tough situation because you see OW all the time. I really would ask that he try not to talk to her or see her. And he shouldn't even acknowledge her presence. That is the *least* he could do. Especially since he says you can't move right now.

And you will have to try your best not to freak if he sees her on the street. (He does need to tell you when that happens, though.) Although, you need to verify there is NC (no calls or visits), you have to show WS that you might be able to trust him in the future. Although, it makes no sense right now, you should show him a tiny bit of respect. He, also, needs to believe that you can recover from this.

I actually think you could bring up Retrouvaille with him, but if you prefer having your MC tell him about it, go ahead. Just as long as you guys go.

I know how you feel, really. I remember looking at pics of us and wondering who the man in the photo was. I did not recognize him at all.

Yes, I believe you guys have a chance to recover even if you stay in the same town. But WS will have to earn your trust. He will have to be super-vigilant about NC and not give any appearance of even liking OW.

Our OW was WS' employee. I really didn't know how I was gonna handle NC, but as luck would have it, she was transferred to another department during the A. Although, he continued working in the same company, I don't think he ever saw her again after NC. Luckily, he quit about 3 months later.

Good for you! I forgot about telling you to make sure you take care of yourself. Make sure you eat right and get some exercise. See, you figured it out for yourself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Oh, I know all about that whole "thought-we-were compromising-but-you-made-me-do-it" stuff. Definitely a matter of communication and that can be fixed. I'm very glad that you are starting to see what may have contributed to the atmosphere of your M. That is what will save it.

Now, you're getting the idea of Plan A!

Whoo! Withdrawal is really awful. WS is moody, irritable. Quick to find fault and difficult to appease. Of course, I am thinking that he should be treating me like a crystal figurine. Since that is not going to happen while he is going through his own hell, I will try to just not take it personally and think of him like a junkie going without a fix. Today, I just sat down with him and told him that I know he is going through hell right now, but could he please remember that I am too and could we just treat each other esp. kind. I asked him to please not treat me like he can't stand to be around me. He seemed calmer and kinder and went upstairs to take a nap.

We are on week 2 of NC. The worst will soon be over I hope. If he can keep up with the NC. MC appt yesterday went well. MC listened to what I know about the A and about her. Esp. what she has said to me. He believes that she is showing signs of being a Sociopathic personality. After he described the usual activities of sociopaths, I think he could very well be right. MC believes WS is still ambivilent but knows the relationship with OW can't work due to the kids and me. MC says that he will continue working with him seperately to help him see the situation clearly. He will bring up the retrouvaille discussion as soon as he can sense a good opening that won't cause WS to feel railroaded. I felt somewhat more determined after the appt. because I don't want this woman to have close contact with my children and I don't want someone like her to be the cause of the end of my marriage.

I am so happy that you and your H are doing well. I pray that a year from now I can be giving someone the support they need as you are doing now. Perhaps that will be one of the reasons these things happen to good people. They will go on to help others.

Take care of yourself and I am doing the same. Trying very hard to avoid all LBs. Will worry more about ENs as he comes out of withdrawal. Hopefully that will be soon.

Loni

You really do sound much better. I'm glad you have some hope. That is what will sustain you. Hmmm...your MC may be right. He/she (?) can't appear to favor one of you. If WS gets the feeling the MC is on your side, the MC may not be able to help him. I would still encourage you to bring up Retrouvaille with WS.

So do you guys have plans for the weekend? Really play up the family angle and do something fun.

Does your MC see you guys together at all? I would ask him/her to do that once and awhile. Good work on eliminating the LBs. Remember, you won't feel secure for awhile, yet. Try not to freak if either one of you seems to backslide. You guys can't change overnight, but with help from each other, you can find your way.

((hugs))

Today is WS's Bday. He is still so quiet and not at all sure if we can work things out. I try to sound secure in my knowledge that we have a lot to do but it's worth it and that we can have a better marriage if we both put in the time and effort. He says he isn't sure if it's in him to do that. I asked him what is the longest he has spent with NC with the OW. He tells me he doesn't remember. I would like to know so I can have an idea when his weakest moments will be.

Got the book last pm. Wow... the first couple sounds like me and my WS. Even down to the pay phones and the fact that someone told me they had seen her leave her home and come back with him in the car. Guess most affairs tend to follow the same script.

What do you think about the business style contact if WS sees OW by accident? I would prefer if he just walked away and not say anything at all. Is that asking too much? I have nightmares about her coming up to him on purpose just to make contact and keep the feelings going forever.

I am starting to feel the benefits of the antidepressant now. Don't feel quite so hopeless or helpless. I wish I could quit shaking though. It is starting to be bothersome. My handwriting is awful. Not a good thing when I have to write all the time for work.

thanks for the quick response. May God watch over you and yours.

Loni

This is so difficult and confusing. He is back to finding fault with me again. It's all about how I am "hateful" and a liar. I ask him to give me "for instances" but he refuses or he will back pedal and deny that he thinks I am that way. Instead of treating me kindly, he acts as though I am his least favorite person in the world.

I confronted his statements calmly and rationally. Pretty good since I didn't feel calm and rational. I just told him that he was being unfair and assuming things about me that were untrue and that he could never be sure how anyone would react in this situation. He says he knows that I would be hateful if he left. What do you think? Is he coming up with excuses to stay or excuses to leave? I told him that he can't be basing that belief on anything I have done or said because I have treated him with kindness and tried to show love and concern for him since this all started.

I love him although I doubt anymore whether I should. If this is just withdrawal, then I hope he comes out of it soon. If he is seeing her again then I wish it would all just be over. I am tired of the drama.

Loni

Hi Loni,

Sorry, I haven't been here. Our home computer is sooo slow and I don't have a whole lot of time at work. You are doing wonderfully. You did not LB when he is being distant and critical. I know it takes alot to hold back on giving him a piece of your mind, but you have a higher goal: the restoration of your M.

I would ask him to refrain from the disrespectful behavior. If there has been NC this whole time, then he is going through his own recovery which has it's ups and downs, too.

WS don't treat us kindly because they have to justify their A. If he admits that you are wonderful, then what does that say about him? He is the lowest of the low, but he can't live with himself knowing that. It will take time for him to forgive himself.

Also, I have to warn you that WS' tend to blame us for the A. If only we had done all these things (in Plan A) before, then they wouldn't have had the A. This is normal WS thinking and it will subside eventually.

WS feels trapped. You will make his life miserable if he left and you will make his life miserable if he stays. Your job in Plan A is to convince him that you can change. We are not talking about feelings. Those will change over time, but your behavior needs to change during Plan A. You have cut out the LBs -- that is major. Now, you might start looking at some of his ENs.

Have you been able to express to him the areas where you need to work on? Our partners need to know that we understand their ENs and we are willing to try to fulfill them. He needs to know that you want to change what you've been doing.

I do have to ask if he is following NC. Is he accountable for all of his time? Does he have the opportunity to call, email, or see the OW? Can you verify that he has not?

Stay strong. You are doing everything right. Have you been taking care of yourself? Have you been able to smile? Have your kids been able to smile?

Most WS' go through withdrawal, so that's what you may be dealing with. However, you know that Plan A does have a deadline. Have you decided on yours, yet?

Hi!LBC.

Thanks for the pep talk. It is very frustrating to hear how "horrible" I could be when I know he is full of it. It has been 3 weeks and 2 days since the last contact for WS and OW. He does have opportunity to call her but it would have to be pretty short calls. He comes home right after work and whenever he goes anywhere, he is there. I check up occasionally and other times I ask him to call me so I don't worry. At least he has quit giving me a hard time about checking on him or asking where he is going to be etc... I try to not be obnoxious about it. I just tell him that I want to trust him but I would be dumb to trust him right now without some proof of his being trustworthy. If he does mention that I don't trust him, I just ask him if I should right now. He now says that he knows why I don't and it's not my fault.

He said the other night that he's not sure if he can live with the fact that I may never trust him again and he will have to answer to me for his time away. I said that I want to trust him and we will just have to wait and see what we both can do to improve the situation. I told him that it's not just up to me. He seemed to be ok with that response. I asked him if he is still on the fence or if he has made a decision about the marriage. He says that he is completely off the fence. He has chosen to continue our marriage and counseling. Good News. I just wish that he would get over his feelings for her. It hurts to feel like he chose me by default. I know that he will come out of the fog eventually, it is just lonely waiting for him. Did you feel like that while he went through withdrawal?

The kids are doing well. School is almost out and they are looking forward to summer. I am doing so much better now that the meds have kicked in. I still feel the sadness but I am not in that deep black pit of despair. I am beginning to sleep better and I haven't been taking the sleep aids lately. I am smiling and laughing.

I ask WS if he is maintaining NC occasionally. I have decided to limit it to once per week. Then just look him in the eyes when he answers me. I hope he maintains. At least now he knows the A would never have worked out. He blames that on the fact that the kids hate her and how it would have affected me. I think he knows in his heart that there were fundamental flaws in that relationship. Kind of the two wrongs don't make a right line of thought. I am waiting for her to start up something with some new guy. That may be the day that WS sees her differently.

I have a deadline set in my mind. Sept. 1st 2005. It gives us all summer to go to counseling and for recovery to begin. I will spend that time working on ENs and eliminating LBs. Prayer and hard work are a daily ritual. I love him enough still to keep trying. There is a lot to be forgiven, but I will get to that in time.

Thank God for this site. I would have felt like a doormat if not for the roadmap laid out for me to recover from this ordeal. Did you have to deal with the doormat/fool label while you were working on your M?

One last thing... How much of a problem is it if he hasn't been completely honest with me about the affair yet? I know there is more but he won't tell me. Isn't it an LB to confront him continuously about the details? Do you think that it will all come out in therapy?

Take care and have a great holiday weekend.
Loni