ok all recieved a long winded email from wh today first time i have heard from him since after his speedy exit the other night from ds visitation early so he could see a stupid movie with stupid ow.....just wondering on some advice on how to answer:

I just wanted to let you know I appreciate that Sunday at the park with DS. It took a lot of courage. I was wondering what your opinion was of that Sunday. I think about AJ every day... and realize another day has passed... another week has passed... another month has passed... and so on. He's growing up so quickly, and I think it is good that we can all set aside our differences for the sake of DS's childhood. I was wondering when we might be able to do that again, or something similar. Here are some times I am available:
SAT 04-30 = (too short notice?)
SUN 05-01 = 12:00 pm - 8:00 pm
MON 05-02 = 6:00 pm - 8:00 pm
TUE 05-03 = 6:00 pm - 8:00 pm
WED 05-04 = 6:00 pm - 8:00 pm
THU 05-05 = (not available) [available for visitation]
FRI 05-06 = 6:00 pm - 8:00 pm
SAT 05-07 = (MAY be available)
SUN 05-08 = 12:00 pm - 8:00 pm (MIGHT not be available after 4:00 pm)

Again, these times do not necessarily indicate I am completely free for all hours... I can just find a way to squeeze in an hour or two during these times with some reasonable notice.

Ok firstly as for my opinion on the "park visitation"...I was uncomfortable and found I wanted to yell at OW every time she went near my son...but I was able to keep my cool some how....I stil loath and dispise ow and think she is an ugly wench....but I can't say that to WH can I...any ideas

Lastly, I remember you telling me that you weren't going to church anymore because DS is too noisy. If you are still wanting to go to church, there MAY be a possibility that I could watch him while you go to church. Or, if we happen to go to church at the same time, I think my church might have a daycare thing. I can imagine, though, that DS might not take too kindly to being left with other daycare providers for an hour... but, I suppose it is something that he is going to have to get used to anyway... and to gain the understanding that just because he may switch from one daycare provider to another at times... that it isn't necessarily a bad thing... and that mommy and/or daddy will always return to pick him up. I also figured it is only for an hour, so it may help him to transition into the concept of it all... so that he may get used to the idea of another daycare surrounding, like MPC's if that ends up coming to fruition. Let me know your thoughts.

Ok my son is in the terrible twos...and throws horrible horrible temper tantrums....so loud even the congregation can hear them through the "quiet room".....what makes him think he won't throw them there too....secondly I do not want him going to there church...any church that tells someone it's ok to have an affair with a married man and help him leave his wife and child has some &%$#^@ up morals and beliefs.....secondly I do not want wh and OW trying to push there beliefs on DS....he is catholic and very young....right now all he needs to know is god loves him and is watching over him....I just want him to be a kid...when he is older he will go to caticyisum....when he's old enough to understand...but i don't think knowing someone died for you and that your drinking the blood of someone is too health for a child to worry about until he's old enough to understand it and this they will push on him....so any ideas on a response to this....
the rest of the email I can hadle on my own these were the main touchy things I was worried about..

Hi Surviving,
I am not completely up on your story, but this just kills me. So, when are you going to host the wedding shower for OW? Geez.

If it were me, and it's not, so take this with a grain of salt, I'd write back WH in these words and nothing more:

"Dear WS, I cannot go through what I did on Sunday again. I was in excruciating pain playing "extended family" and I can't do that again. Custody will be worked out in the usual legal manner and that is what we'll have to live with, as will our son. I am sorry you will miss so much of DS's growing up moments, but so will I. It is all so sad AND UNNECESSARY."

But, hey, that's just me.

~ Snow

Substitute:
I am sorry you chose to throw away your family, and thereby miss so much of DS's life.

How about adding: I certainly want a happy life for my son, but nothing compels me to ever have to endure the presence of OW, who helped you destroy our family.

Don't be nice about this. Grr.

Myself, I would address 2 things your WH said:

THIS:


and THIS:


something along the lines of

"Yes, family time is very important. I enjoyed this time as well. We need to spend time parenting our child."

And I would add (in some way) that the fact that your shared child is being allotted "squeezed time" saddens you beyond measure. How unfortunate it is for the child to be deligated to "leftover" time with his beloved father.

something like:

"The sad part for me is this. Our son gets the time left over from other priorities. His time is squeezed in, rather than him being the priority and squeezing in other things after our son has had his share of time in the front of the line. Not the back of the line. This upsets me and saddens me. I have no control over this, except to say I find this incredibaly sad."

Then drop the subject. (seed planted)

Pep

Well, Snowbelle's letter isn't bad, but I'd cut second and last sentences. He doesn't care about your feelings. This is all about him feeling better about what he has done, broadly and generously labelled by him as "differences." Any emotion you express will play into his game -- that it's too bad that you aren't "over" things, can't be civilized, haven't "moved on," etc., etc., etc.

Don't know where you are with Plan B -- but I'm in the same legal end-game that you are. I let my lawyer do all the communication. Expensive, but not as expensive as the lost time in painful and debilitating emotions.

You don't have to play into this. I am grateful for Plan B silence, which I've been able to sustain during his divorce procedings. Silence really is best. He can do the denial bit without your help.

I'd keep communication -- when you absolutely must, when lawyer can't do it for you -- to an absolute, business-like minimum.

A.M., I think Surviving's WH doesn't have to take her feelings into account cuz she is so good at hiding them and putting up the brave front. I wonder if he really knows how hurt she has been because of all of this. I think he might be clueless.

I am advising her to drop the high road route and let him feel his own consequences. She doesn't have to be mean or angry, just honest. It was killing her to be there Sunday? No more Sundays like that one, then. That's it. And she tells him why. No fuss no muss, just straight forward, "this is how I felt and I can't do that anymore." And don't apologize!

WH has made a choice. If he says she is just being difficult, well, then he just doesn't understand how painful it is on the BS end. Too bad for him.

~ Snow

And another thought, surviving. When my husband was looking for apartments out-of-state and was going to leave me with four kids (a couple of really difficult ones to boot)... I told him NO DEAL. He was free to choose wherever he wanted to live, but parenting is non-negotiable. I told him he would have to take at least two of the children with him and keep in touch with the others as much as possible. I let him know that his actions had consequences and they didn't all fall on ME!

Perhaps WH should have your son the majority of the time (since there are TWO adults to care for him) and you squeeze son in when your schedule allows (and NEVER on Friday nights, cuz that's your time to be alone). Ask your husband what he would think of that arrangement.

~ Snow

Snowbelle,

Well, you know her sitch better than I do. Perhaps I'm measuring by my own. I know how easily he patronizes any emotion I may feel, and buries his own. The patronizing sound of her WH's letter bugs the bejeebers out of me.

AMM

Nope, AMM, I don't know her situation well. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at this thing from WH's view. Man! He's got a girly on the side and his wife is OK WITH THAT and even lets him have custody of the DS when and whenever he feels like it.

I bet he thinks he's just sitting pretty in the world to have such great women in his life. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

We're on the same on the page, belive me!

Rarely has a post ticked me off like this one. I can't even imagine your humiliation and pain at going to the park with WH/OW and your little son. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Why are you condoning OW being around your son? You don't have to condone it, you may not be able to prevent it but you sure as hell don't have to condone it. And then for you to have to be subjected to the two of them together. argggg

I almost can't believe I read this.

I went along with my DD's dads new girlfriend (now his wife) hosting a bday party for my daughter which I attended with my sister. It was very traumatic for me to see the way she acted around my DD. I swear I was traumatized, and she wasn't even the OW he had when I was pregnant. Now he and I are in counseling with DD, and I won't even let his wife call my house to talk to DD. Talk about over-stepping her step-mother boundaries, that one.

You do not have to go along with this rubbish, Surviving. And that is exactly what it is.

I like Snowbelle's letter, and I might add a line something like "I no longer feel it is a good idea for our son to be subjected to your OW, and therefore will no longer be condoning nor participating in it".

And also the seed planted like Pep said about "squeezing" DS into his time.

Let him see the child every other weekend and once during the week, if that is how your arrangements for visitation will be.

It's not going to be 50/50 is it?

sorry guys...orchid knows my stitch pretty well....I just kind of assumed everyone knew...Ok I will admit I was a WW...so WH knows about being a BS...I got the 2x4's slapped against my head and came back to reality....I fought to save my family we started MC and i was in IC I thought we were getting somewhere...till my now wh started hanging out with an ex girlfriend going to bars where he met OW and started his revenge affair with her....I fought for months tryign to get him to come home....after a traumatizing even where he took my vehicle and would not return when we had an emergency with the cat almost dieing (I later found out he was on a date with OW and kissing her in my truck)he kicked DS and I out to a drafty old apartment where you had to flush the toilet with a bucket while he lived in our spacious 2 bedroom apt going out every night and living the high life...the day after DS's first birthday party....he went on her business trip with her and started there PA. I found out when he returned...while he was gone I found out i was pregnant with our second child....and the weekend after I found out what he had done I ended up miscarrying I was 7 or 8 weeks along...I never got the chance to tell him...he later found out on his own when he hacked my email.I mourned the loss by myself...he never comforted me or told me he was sorry for not being there...he has never even been to the baby's grave. he just is too into himself to care.I came home while he was gone.... and he moved out. i fought and plan aed my [censored] off....till I could not do it anymore...I went dark I don't call him...it is not a plan B at all...it's the I am done...there is too much pain and anger and betrayal and I just could not do it anymore. I continued my IC getting stronger and stronger...I learned to be on my own and be strong....I was finally able to stand on my own and stand up to WH...he knows now he can no longer control me like he used to....but he does have someone he can control....OW of course....she is an ugly, insecure, low self esteam...type person the perfect target.... so he stays with her...I have moved on myself....I have a wonderful man whom I adore...we are taking it very slow...I did alot of work to get this far...my only problem i admit to having is...when someone burns me I never forgive....and the two of them...I don't think i can ever forgive them for the hurt and damage they caused to us. He has lied, cheated, stolen, and abused (not physically...I could kick his [censored] before he even touched me)us....that is something I find loathsome and wrong...she has shown such a lack of respect and also stolen from my son and myself. I now am living for my son he is my priority...I look to secure his future and provide him a healthy and safe enviornment...I have fought off many of WH's stupid stupid selfish wants to protect him from the harmful results...I don't know how far or how long I will have to go.

So do you have your boyfriend around your son too?

Well that changes my opinion a bit. I am against bringing romantic interests into childrens lives unless marriage is imminent and in the planning.

However, you do not have to be subjected to OW, period!

I am filing for sole phsyical and legal custody...I think the only reason he is delaying the divorce is that he wants me to change it to 50/50....I have told him in no certain terms will I change it...the judge will make a fair decision....the only reason I even agreed to the park visitaion is that I have moved on and my boyfriend has met DS...i felt guilty I was keeping him and basically doing what I wasn't allowing my WH to do....also i don't want a judge to think I am being difficult...i want to see I have tried to work things out in an adult like manner and have tried to agree to terms for visitation...I don't want them to take my baby away...honestly if it were anyother woman I would be OK...it's just HER.

My boyfriend met DS before he left to go home...he moved back to his family because they needed his help....I don't know how long he will be away...but they needed him...I understand that...he thinks DS is a great kid....but he was very good he did not force anything...my main belief is to let DS take things at his own pace which my boyfriend let him do and they did wonderfully.....OW....was telling my friend who was with me at the park that she just wanted to go pick DS up ...basically forcing DS to be with her...I don't agree with that...and it just shows how much disrespect she has for peoples boundries. I went with DS because he looks to me for support and I did not want to put him through meeting OW with no support...so i sucked it up for him....I will not leave him alone with her.....thats the only reason i bared it like I did.

any ideas on the church issue???? I really don't feel comfortable with DS going to church with them.

*sigh* I keep getting logged off.....Orchid if your out there I would appreciate your views as well.

Then say no. You are the mom, you can follow your own gut instincts.

One of the reasons my ex got 50/50 (I did agree out of the court) as I was advised by an atty that because she had experienced almost 50/50 her entire life, as I let her go with him as much as possible, I would very likely lose in court.

I had given too rope to my DD's dad, and then he used it against me.

I am against 50/50 now because I see how hard it is on DD to live in two homes. She should live in one and visit the other. Although some on here say they have had good experiences with 50/50.

I would tell him you prefer to keep DS in your church, when he is old enough. He doesn't need to be subjected to daycare yet, either. I started my daughter at 3 for a few hours a day, and I don't even know if it was necessary although she loved it. It does subject them to every bug that goes around though.

I have a better understanding of why you are going along with so much now. It is because custody has not yet been determined.

If u r both moving on with your lives, then the next step w/b to complete the D before introducing anyone to your son. Rules apply evenly to both in parenting situations. As for your safety concerns regarding the OW, you need to let the WS know. Also he needs to be able to voice his concerns about your BF. Fair is fair.

As for the church thing, that is a challenge for most parents. Ask other parents how they handle it and decide what you and your H can try.

In regards to how you rear your child, that s/b a decision you both must agreee on. If you need a 3rd party to help keep the discussion at a safe level, then do so.

The above suggestions are for helping your child not your M. If you are moving on, what is it about the OW that bothers you? If she isn't safe, then take action.

If you still think there is a chance for your M, that w/b a separate discussion. In order to help you, we need to know which direction you want to head off in.

take care,
L.

Honestly Orchid....I wish he would go away and disappear...i do believe our lives would be better without him and what he continues to do.....but I know it's not realistic and it's too easy.....i do wish we were still a family....but I can no longer try to save this marriage with what i have gone through...I hold alot of anger at him over the child I lost and what the experience did to me....and everytime I see him that anger sparks....I am able to keep it under control...it just hurts alot. It wasn't the first miscarriage I had with him...I handled both by myself....but this one hurt the most....I guess ...i did let him get to me...thinking if I didn't oblige and let the meeting of DS and OW happen it would look bad to a court...but I did go about it to try and safe guard Ds with my presence...also to let OW know I would not allow her to push DS to try to accept her too fast...it is his decison alone...and he is allowed to go at his own pace with what he feels is comfortable....I knew the meeting would have to happen eventually...I would have rathered it happen with me there than WH stealing him away ins ecret to meet her.

ok guys I ahven't sent this yet....please read this and tell me what you think:

firstly This is my primary email...although I may not check it on a daily basis.
secondly,the problem with the web cam...I did the uninstall and reinstall AIM twice and it didn't help i contacted AOL live help...no help there and i emailed AIM tech support and have not recieved a reply...I think it's fudged.

as far at the money transfer thing I suppose you can transfer the $100 in from now on and I will transfer in the $200 and I will use that for day care....this however will not cause any problems with the truck payment will it...if it will legally or financially I would rather give you the $400 each month as I do not want to seem to not take responsibility for my vehicle.
Really the transers arn't that hard for me...

AS far as the park thing....for an introductory occasional visit it went ok as can be expected at this point. In my opinion I would like to say I do think maybe you should have more visits with DS to solidify your relationship before introducing other people to muddle and confuse him....but an occasional visit until it is solidifed is ok but not every time...I think maybe you and I should set aside more time to spend time parenting our child and then schedule our priorities.

Daycare...no I don't think it's a deal breaker...but we do need to make sure...we have someone to watch him during those breaks....I too would like him to be closer to my mom...but as we had talked about if we put him in that day care he won't be starting till fall....so maybe we can look around till then.

As far as the church discussion...thankyou but I am currently making arrangements and DS. will be going to church with me. Also i do not want to confuse him with 2 different religions. so Thankyou but we have the situation under control.

It seems good to me as you are communicating and voicing your concerns in a respectful, non threatening manner.

I feel very strongly about the part where you said that bringing other people into your son's life would confuse and muddle him. That is a good way to begin to explore this subject with WH. To me this is one of the most important and crucial aspects of raising a child apart.

Children need to know WHO their parents are. And that NOone else will threaten their security further than already has been done. You and WH are his entire UNIVERSE right now...this is sacred ground in my opinion, and should never be compromised in his young mind.

I might be over the top somewhat on this subject, but I just feel very strongly about it.

I think you did good with the letter. Keep communicating with WH regarding your son, and stressing that you want to do what is best for HIM.

Which it sounds like you are trying to do. Must have been hard to go to the park and see that but I know why you did it now, to be there for your son.

I really admire that. But am glad you are starting to try and stear this into another direction.