Post deleted by 2YearsTooLate

Hi 2YTL---

It's a good question, one that I have asked myself plenty of times.

In my case, I believe that they do have one thing in common, and that would be the glue that holds them together.

My x moved in with her as soon as our D was final. That was 1 1/2 yrs ago. I have heard some stories that would make me think that their life together is not all that he thought it would be, but I think the physical part for them is still as strong, and that is the glue.

He would never admit to me if he were not happy, so I assume he is. Is it soul mates?? Or this big time love thing, I have my doubts.

I really no longer care about it as much. I'm still angry that my family has been split, but, I know that I'm better off without having a cheat for a husband.

I do have a question for you though. Do you speak to this guy??
I have yet to have a conversation with this woman. I don't hate her, but I certainly don't respect her. Further more, I have nothing to talk to her about.

I was curious as a man, how it is for you.

I would have to say though, I think in time, you will see that it is not 100% bliss that she may like to portray.

Take care.
K.

Wow, 2 Years, you seem way, way ahead of the curve. To me at least. Your question is interesting. If you ask me the only difference between the two is one is begotten in honesty and the other in dishonesty. And, as an interesting side note, "honesty" during Shakespeare's time meant chastity or sexual integrity as well as truthful. Thus, when Shakespeare is calling a woman "honest" he means so much more then she won't steal.

Back to the topic at hand, I think the whole problem with affairs is that they are ill-begotten. They are the result of a violation of a vow. In all other respects, they are almost exactly like any other infatuation, or love affair, depending on how long they've been going on.

The important thing for most spouses to keep in mind is that they were once the "soul mate, to infitity and beyond." So, they can dislodge the interloper. I do think in a very small number, this is not possible, because they truly never should have married to start with. In a greater number, the WS is too far gone to be retrieved.

Sorry for rambling.

2YTL,

Legit or fantasy? It depends.
An affair is always exciting. It has the thrill of the forbidden that normal relationship does not have. Furthermore, in WW's mind, your imperfections are used as a foil against OM. In an affair, OM does not share household responsibilities. He doesn't have to account for his money, time, she doesn't have to pick up his dirty socks, etc.

All relationships/marriages go through seasons. Marriages mature. Reality sets in. No one is perfect... one day, OM and WW will see the 'flaws' or personality weakness of each other and will have to put up with it. Do they have the maturity to expect that? As in all marriages, there will be difficult times in the relationship, and one will fall or not pull their weight. If OM and WW is mature enough to know and accept that this is the course of all marriages, then it's 'legit' love.

One cannot be 'head over heels' all the time... it's too dizzying! Instead, a good relationship/marriage is supporting each other, loving each other and being patient with each other's weaknesses and flaws and helping each other grow. IMO, besides love, what matter most is the maturity/character of that person you are falling in love with. Can WW see that all relationship matures through rough patches, or is she looking for the thrill of being in love all the time? Will OM sustain that first season of love over time?

IMO, in a marriage, you don't have to be in love with that person to love him or her. All I need to know is that I will be secure in my spouse's love.

One thing... the fact that these two people are willing to leave their own children to be with each show that they are both irresponsible and immature... wanting to be in the fog forever.

Post deleted by 2YearsTooLate

2Years,,,,

Interesting response to the question.
That was one thing I didn't want tohave was a confrontation. I'm not good at them anyway, and one being with his then OW, was not what I wanted to do. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I should have confronted her, but for me I don't think so. I know in my heart I did all I could to save my marriage, and I came FINALLY to the realization that this was not his first affair, and if we did stay together, it wouldn't be his last. So, in the end, she probably did me a favor.
However, I will never feel that way when it comes to our girls. I will never feel either one of them did a favor because I hate divorce for children involved.

They are getting married this month, not sure when, and I can say that it really doesn't effect me now one way or the other.
Thay have been living together for 1 1/2 years now, so they might as well be married.

I will like that arrangement better for my girls anyway. Between the two of them, they have shown the girls nothing positive. At least this will be the most moral thing they have done.

I have to say though, it does not speak to highly of your W that she will not be having primary custody of your children. That floors me!

I remember only too well the sorting of assets. Such a sad time in the ending of the marriage.
What really struck me though for myself, was when my x didn't fight me for our children. He gave them to me freely, and ALL Holidays. He gave up all that precious time with them.

Of course there were so many raw feelings at the time, and I am ever so grateful that he did act this way, but now, I think, how sad for him.
I can't imagine not being a huge part in our daughters lives.

I can only imagine, that one day, your children's mother will really regret her choice.
I wouldn't want to be her when that day comes.

Take care,
Karona

TYTL... i didn't have any confrontations w/OM... didn't want to give him the satisfaction, since he figured that was what i would do... kept me ego in check, but it wasn't easy... thinking of OM w/her used to hurt me but that faded along with the hope of reconcilliation... the division of M props... gave her all the furniture and anything material she wanted... i jettisoned as many possible triggers as i could... we sold the house and split the proceeds 50/50... but i collected half of the mortgage payments in arrears from her, as she left and was responsible for 1/2 the liabilities... took 9 months to close, so, she didn't walk away w/much $... but she had everything else... i can't imagine, even to this day, how OM sleeps on my matttress (probably my side) and eats off of my plates and sits on my couch, watching my tv and not at least think about it... but who cares... anyway, i was homeless, living in my truck for 2 months (no children for us)... but i made it and am very happy these days with all new stuff that I wanted to have...

my opinion on the dynamics is that they are very different... new and exciting... that faded over time for her and from what i can tell, he is not happy w/her and probably his decsion to be w/her... but he seems very weak of morals and character to me by his actions, and to tell my stbx to work it out with me (he told her that in the beggining) but remain w/her anyway... i have seen her out a few times on weekends, and they weren't together (and she works like 15 hrs a day.. weekends, too)... so what does that demo... hmmm...

good luck man.. hang in there...

My stbx had the fantasy feeling. It was all consuming and unrealistic. He was 56 and she was 27 but she felt like the quality of their life was more important than the quantity since he would die way before her some day. I think he felt like he met a women who would accept him as he was. She made him feel young but the whole time they both admitted that they did not see how things could work for them. Even with that reality, they continued to hurt so many (my parents, her parents, our children, friends etc). The difference with this fantasy relationship and the relationship of real love is that real love does not hurt everyone without any regard for their feelings. Real love should bring stability and encouragement to all involved.

I too wondered if they really could make each other happy. Maybe they were right for each other...... But after 4 years the whole affair is over and their "love" did not stand the test of time. Reality did come to the forefront and he admits he did a very stupid thing.......

I also know of another couple whose marriage is based on the fantasy love of an affair and they are struggling too after some years of marriage. Marriage is hard work and it needs a foundation that will stand the test of time. Infidelity does not promote strength in a marriage----it promotes just the opposite.

TW

Post deleted by 2YearsTooLate

The best part is WS's and their OP's will be able to tell all those warm, fuzzy stories about how they met. The heart-warming stuff.....

Ooooops,

No they won't....hehehe

My XW and I could tell the story of how we met, the furtive glances, the courtship and on and on,,,

But,(forgive me if I giggle a bit)

What the heck are they going to be able to look back on?

WS- "That night my husband didn't come out with me and we danced and I didn't get home till 2in the morning and the next day I lied and skipped a parent-teacher meeeting for my kids so we could sneak and meet"

OP- "Yeah I remember, I drove 60 miles that first night so I could cheat on my wife, y'know of all the people I cheated on my wife with your the best"

Doesn't that just bring out the warm fuzzy's?

Thats a story for the grandkids alright.

RebornMan
Optimism Inc.

Boy, I can't think of ANYHING that I have read on this forum that I disagree with more than your above statement. Hopefully if you really think about it and reread it and think about it some more, the differences will jump out at you!

Comparing the two is like saying the only difference between walking into a bank and withdrawing cash and walking into a bank and withdrawing cash with a gun are the same sans the gun.

Love's hallmark is respect. If I need to sneak around to be with you, where is the respect?

Love is pride in being with another. If I can't tell anyone about you, where is the pride?

Love is the dignity of joining with another. Where is the dignity of an affair partner?

Love is empathy for another. Affairs are the complete lack of empathy by the affair partners.

Love is making the other's happiness a priority. How can you make anyone happy when you are legally and morally linked to another?

Love is three thousand other things that separate marriage from it's polar opposite, an affair!

Sorry for the rant but your statement really touched a nerve! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Originally posted by Greengables:


Hmm. I do in fact agree with Greengables here. The reason is, I make a distinction (as I suspect does Greengables also) between "love" and "being in love."

In our culture it is common to confuse the romantic feelings of "being in love" for love itself. But they are not the same thing. Harley has a lot to say about how to develop and maintain the feelings, but the process itself can occur under conditions which are artificial and pathological and dishonest, or under circumstances which are nurturing of growth and respect and honesty.

Recognizing that feelings themselves do not reveal whether or not they derive from a healthy source is in no way demeaning to the concept of love itself. Rather, such recognition merely places those feelings in proper perspective.

You want to build the feelings of "being love" upon a foundation of real love. That's what makes a romance truly beautiful.