Being that we are all "kindred" formerly WS's who have LEARNED the error of our ways (the hard way), I haven't heard from either of you lately...

Jost a note to let you know I am thinking of you and hope your trials are going as well as can be expected...WW and I are working...she is supposed to make her first counseling appt this week. WW seems to SLOWLY be coming around...I had asked her that, if her and I wind up in DC, that she PLEASE NEVER sleep with a MM again!. Her answer was something I told her a while ago "I keep hearing you say that Mrs.(fill in the blank) doesn't deserve this pain". I hope she has REALLY started learning...I hope we can reconcile, but it isn't up to me.

Take care and write soon,

WNB

WNB - I replied to your original post - quite lengthy reply - for some flippin reason it didn't actually post..

Then,,,, so much has happened in the past couple of weeks that I don't even know where to begin. I'm emotionally drained..I haven't posted on the divorce board either. I may be at a point that I truly don't care anymore..I've had enough...I'm just stepping back and watching what transpires in my life...

I was just visiting Dr. Phil's site and last week he had I think one of the MB posters on his show..Anyway, the guy is a flippin serial cheat/sex addict...Dr. Phil's advise was so true and I've learnt so much about this I could have given the three of them that same advise...I truly don't believe the guy can change/nor does he truly want to ...it's not that he can't "choose between the 2 women" - he doesn't WANT to...He enjoys who he is and doesn't have an excuse for his behaviour..nor does he offer one. He enjoys being a DOG...

Glad to hear your WW may be coming around...So you set a boundary for her - no more MM - HELLO - shouldn't it be NO OTHER SEXUAL/EMOTIONAL PARTNERS EXCEPT YOU......

What about your pain - you don't deserve to have a knife plunged into your heart either...The OMW is important yes - but, not as important as her own dignity and her BS pain/dignity..

I just think I'm sick of all this infidelity bullsh**, tired of what it's done to me, my family, friends, sick of hearing about these selfish, selfcentered idiots that hurt us so deeply then have the [email]ba@@@[/email] to blame us for thier weakness...

Sorry - too much has happened lately and I'm just down on all this...I can't believe people have such little value for themselves that they will have SF w/just about anyone that asks...What really shocks me is women - what in the heck is wrong here..When I look at how many that I know of have had SF w/my WH - I want to shake the crap out of them...Do they think so little of themselves...that any man will do??????????????????


Take Care...Gotta run

I am so sorry to hear that things aren't well with you. I wish I had some words to lead you clear of your nightmare, but I am at a loss. At some point...we all know when it is...it'll be time to fish or cut bait. Is your WH working at healing or even interested in that? If not, perhaps Plan B is in your future to protect whatever love you have left for him? I am already feeling my love die...I don't know when it will be gone, but I really need to hang in there through August...if possible. I have already written poems that she'll get IF our M ends...very poignant, but direct.

This M will end because she CHOOSES not to change by not F!@# other men anymore...its that simple. I asked her and she never felt out of control during the PA's, the overriding thought was "BH willl NEVER FIND OUT...it's my secret". How !@#$ing selfish is that? I REALLY hope that most women are not like this...that does scare me

The not knowing is the worst part. We are in that state...sort of. She starts IC on 16 May...we'll see if she is willing to do the hard work to affect change...I have my doubts, but I MUST see our M through to the end...no regrets.

I may not have the words to help you, but find your peace and pursue it...you deserve an honest loving man who will not sheat on you any MORE!

Sorry my post was unclear...the ONLY reason I asked her to stay away form Married Men was IF AFTER WW and I divorced, I was asking her to do that in what would be her "newly single" life.. While we are trying to reconcile/married, NO PA/EA is acceptable...I'll write better next time. Ha ha

Keep writing...I'll be here and we'll both make it through...one way or the other...

Your friend,

WNB

Hey WNB,

Things are rough right now and work has been really difficult with everything else in my life.

I'll write soon. Thanks for your thoughts, and I'm praying for you and yours,

Cruz

In my mind it is time to "cut bait", yet I haven't moved on to Plan B. THe main reason is we both have so much to lose financially. Since we own a profitable business together and live in a very small community if I move out b-4 filing for the D - our employees would hear about it and I'd prefer to keep it quiet and I know that won't happen. So I have to be absolutely sure that I would not take him back.

As for the MB principle that moving to Plan B to preserve "any love" that I have left that's not how I feel. I know that once I moved out I'd be DONE..My love for him would be GONE. That kind of scares me - knowing that 13 years of my life was wasted w/a serial cheat. That my status in my community would be gone - that I would be looking for a new job, home, soul mate all at one time. It's a bit overwelming.

WH is coming around but not in the way I want or need him to. He thinks being nice to me all of a sudden will be enough. I think we are both conflict avoiders to this is his easy way out or in..
He must go to IC or MC. His MOW that works for us must be fired, all contact w/his A partners must END. I cannot accept anything LESS.. I cannot come to work and have a daily reminder of his A's. It's to much to ask of me and I can't do it..

I hate to tell you this - but from where I sit and what I see thru my WH activities there are MANY women like your WW. I think today's society is sooooo disposable that people just don't value M, family, etc. They do what feels good for them and damn the rest of us...

I'm glad to hear that she is going to IC - it's gonna be a long road if she is a serial cheat/sex addict and doesn't feel remorse like some of us do. If she believes what she's doing doesn't hurt anyone - it's gonna take one heck of an IC to "fix her"..

Yes, you and I do deserve an honest partner - can I find one - I highly doubt it..There is just too much freedom/casual sex today. I'm not even sure I want to take that risk again.

I'm frustrated as yesterday was 1 year ago that he moved to another bedroom - for WHAT...someone elses' WIFE???? To punish me for his sexual issues?? So while he's having SF w/many women I have been starved for love, attention and just someone to hold me..I go out and have men hit on me all the time - yet, I remain M to a man that so blatantly doesn't want me..or only wants me when he sees that someone else may be interested in his lovely sexy wife. I truly am thinking of just hooking up w/someone who is single for the sake of attention, etc. I know it would be wrong since I am still M..but, he choose to take his ring off and throw his M away - I'd only be following his lead. To me we are only M because neither of us wants to lose $$$...He's lost control of her and that freaks him out...WHY..do I allow him to punish me???? I've given him more opportunities than anyone in their right mind would do - yet he continues being an idiot..

Believe me once I'm gone he'll have many women throwing themselves at him - they do not know him - he cannot change for them...They see the $$$$ and want my life - they don't see the real life/hell I'm living in. Oh the games they play...These women should call me..I'll tell there is no sex in the marital bed only hotel rooms....

Hugs to you too....

Hang in there buddy and post when you can...I'll be looking for you.

WNB

We've both got some really rough road ahead of us, don't we? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> No one ever said this would be fun! Ha Ha

I guess there is no easy way for you and WH to split things equitably and move on with your own respective lives? It sure doens't sound like you love him anymore, but I could just be missing something in this written medium. Would it be possible for him to "buy you out" of the business, leaving you free to find a new life in a new place? Just a thought...

WW and I are in the holding pattern until some progress gets made (one way or the other) with her IC. I told her that I had some doubts that she would do the hard work in IC, but it SEEMS like she wants to...we'll see.

Right now I am getting NO EN's met! She feels so bad about everything that all she can muster are hugs and feels ashamed when I try to hold her hand, kiss her, etc. The remorse is good, but I am hoping it doesn't take her down a bad road.

You said that your love would die if you moved out? I think I can sympathize...the thoughts of being single and finding someone new are not unappealing anymore. Is my love for WW dying? I think so, especially in this atmosphere of no EN's being met, plus my thread regarding my "almost A" last week. I just want to hold on until she leaves in August. I think I can...I think I can...I think I can.

I love her dearly, but with no ACTION on her part in the reconcile/repair area, I have NO choice but to leave, if she has not already pulled the plug because she refuses to CHOOSE me over her tawdry "lifestyle". On the plus side, WW does recognize that it is a choice. She can't accept that I still believe that, if the M ends, it was because she didn't love me...that she is CHOOSING other men over our life. THat could be a big pill for her to swallow, but at that pont, I couldn't care less.

Stay Strong ITHURTS!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

WNB

I’m having REALLY bad thoughts today.
I have an urge to inflict a little pain of my own. I’m not talking about a revenge affair on my part as discussed on the other thread. That wouldn’t cause her any pain. I’m talking about some particularly nasty pictures I have of her with another guy, and her company e-mail distribution.

GOD that would feel good.

I guess you could say that’s how it’s going with me right now. I am so tired of hurting… so tired of being lied to.

When all is said and done I think the lying is the worst – even more than the screwing around. She has lied so often for so long about so many things that it is impossible for me to believe anything she says.

Why do I Love her?

I am sorry to hear that...I just wish that things could be going better for you...My WW at least is not receptive to ANY SF, which is good and bad, as my desire for SF with her is coming back.

With regards to the pictures, are they of an already known "rendezvous" or are they of a previously unknown one?

All I can do is be honest and, IF they are of a previously unknown violation, I would REALLY cconsider ending the M. Unless I am missing something, I am not hearing of any real desire of your WW to reconcile, change and repair the marriage.

I really don't think you love her...you had mentioned once before that perhaps the guilt of your prior WS behavior won't allow you to admit marrying WW was a mistake? If that's the case, perhaps being honest with yourself about the mistake of marrying WW, not looking back and moving forward might be a good approach...I am just throwing out ideas here.

Having her in your life is not bringing ANY happiness, it can't be worse if she is out of the picture, can it?

The only way to stop the hurt and the lying is to get away from it. My opinion...it's time for a SOLID PLan B...get her out of your life until she REALLY shows remorse/regret and a REAL desire to reconcile. She'll either wake up OR you can begin looking for an HONEST woman who DESERVES to be treated like a lady.

With regards to the pictures, I'd let WW know you have them AND keep them as leverage in the event of a D (I am evil that way!). At least it will help you not lose your financial shirt. Word to the wise...they are a nuclear weapon, use only in case of a REAL emergency!

Probably not a recommended tactic here at MB, but D's can get ugly and a bit of "betrayal" for a possibly unrepentant WW is just desserts.

Keep posting and I'll keep looking for you...

WNB

Hey WNB,

Until just recently I was the only one not interested in SF. Over the last two weeks she is no longer interested in pursuing it either – at least not with me.

The pictures I have are from one of her affairs during her previous marriage. The guy posted them on the internet. She doesn’t know that I have them. No court value for me – just a good nuclear option in the event that I wanted to go totally stupid.

She considers my interest in what she is doing with her “friends” an invasion of her privacy. She doesn’t understand why she can’t do as she pleases with no questions asked. She wants me to accept her as she is. If change is required on her part that appears to be asking too much.

Believe me – I’ve spent hour upon hour soul searching for the answer to the question of whether I love her or not. There are lots of variables there. You are right about the guilt I have from how I got here having an influence on how I perceive my feelings. I have tried to look at this from as far away from myself as I can, and the best answer I can give is that Yes – I do love her, but I don’t like her. Does that make any sense?

You’re also right that having her in my life is not bringing me any happiness. The problem is I can’t see my life without her. The only pain I can imagine worse than what I’m in now is to be without her.

Like I said earlier… Plan B = Plan D for me. That may be where I end up, but I can’t let go yet.

I don’t want anyone else in my life right now. If I loose her I have no plans in the foreseeable future to pursue any kind of relationship. I’m too hurt for it.

I just want peace.

Cruz

Has your WW earned back any trust at all? With her going out with her "friends" are you fairly certain they are women AND they are going where they say? How often are "they" going out? Are you seeing IC/MC to help you with this? I thought you said you were in MC with WW, but I am not sure.

A related "trust" story...My WW was acting really strange a couple of weeks ago...she broke a dinner date with me and left abruptly for "work". I gave her 15 minutes, followed her to work (her vehicle was there) and I waited for her. When she came out, I told her that, with the "state" she was in (stressed to the max) AND that she had done nothing to earn back my trust since 3/11, that was why I was there. She initially wanted to go TOTAL NC with me at that pont, but she realized that my behavior was caused by HER actions (the A's) and she re-committed to seeing this through. She still is unsure what she wants, which I don NOT understand! She earned a SMALL bit of trust back for actually being where she said she would be.

The point to my story is...do you have any GOOD reason to trust your WW? If not, is she working toward re-establishing trust? If neither is the case, perhaps discussing your "options" (including D) during counseling would be a start. An M without trust or work to re-build trust is not an M...in my opinion. I just hate seeing her drag you through all of this seemingly without a concern for you or your feelings...am I wrong in this? I hope so...

We are in a similar boat, but I am beginning to see that my love is dying, while yours is not. I am REALLY trying to hang on as WW has not started IC yet (starts on Monday), but it's really tough. I have "seen" my life without her and it is not entirely unappealing. Have you "seen" that yet?

I can't say that I understand the "I love her, but I don't like her"...those terms go hand-in-hand for me, but who says I have all the answers <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

What is it that your WW brings to your M that makes it worth going through all of this pain? Only you can answer if that positive is worth the baggage of the negatives, but look at it carefully...for your own well-being.

Take care my friend,

WNB

Love but not like…
My seven year old daughter taught me this concept. One night while I was tucking her into bed she looked at me and said “I Love You Daddy, and I like you too.”

After I turned off her light and went back to the living room, the more I thought about it I thought to myself “what a profound thing for a seven year old to say”.

To understand this (at least in my thinking), think of an analogy:
Let’s say your mother or father is an alcoholic. As a child you knew that they loved you, but sometimes they did things that you did not understand – hurtful things, things that they may have later apologized to you for but they would do it again – or something like it the next time they were drinking. You may have hid this from others because you did not want them to think badly of your parents because you love them, but it makes you hurt inside when they say or do these bad things to you when they are drinking. You love them but hate what they are doing to you and wish more than anything they would stop. You love them but you hate their actions

That kind of describes it I guess. You don’t have to love someone to like them – that’s straight forward enough. You can probably think of any number of not so close friends or acquaintances this description would fit… “yeah, so and so’s a kewl guy/gal – good sense of humor, fun to be around”; you like this person, but you don’t love them. I think it can work the other way as well… you can love someone but not like them. That’s where I am with my ww right now. There is still this incredible woman hiding in there who I fell in love with – she’s still there and I still love her, but I’ve come to find that there are things I don’t like about her at all… things that were always there – I really can’t say she deceived me; I just didn’t fully understand who she is.

Cruz,

How are you doing buddy?

WNB