Thanks Miker- good to hear from you. How are things for you?

Don't be afraid to be ~real~ and find your strength.

Susan

point taken. I thought I was, but I guess I really was only being half real. I will try to improve that.

Things are going really, really good. I'm really happy and so are the kids. Thanks for asking.

I don't spend too much time around here anymore but I do like to check in and see how people are doing. You were the first person to write to me so I'm kinda curious how you are making out... Sounds like life in your house is about the same but it does sound like you are making progress on your plan. Good for you!

As far as making the next big step. I'm sure you'll know when the time is right, but just make sure you don't let your fears hold you back. If I was a betting man I say your fears have very little chance of coming true. Frankly the abusiveness of the situation scares... I'm scared someday I'll login and you won't be posting anymore... Now that's a real fear!

All the best,

Miker

KMEJ-

I could literally visualize the scene when you were talking about your husband making the comment about *a baby with his new wife* and telling you to go away.

I tend to put myself in other people's place when answering, and I can DEFINITELY see my FWH firing something like that at me. I think that maybe because you said something in front of his friend he was embarrassed, and made the *go away* comment to be all manly. (Not that it's right, but I think that's what he was doing.)

They can be amazingly insensitive can't they (WS's), they are still of the opinion the world revolves around them.

I want you to know that I respect the "For better or worse" premise that you're operating under. It may not be the popular thing to do, but it is noble. My marriage is definitely no cake walk either, and the easy thing to do would be to walk away....start over, but that's not what I signed up for, and so far I've been decent in keeping to my end of the *bargain*.

I'm glad that your child is better, nothing like a sick child to stress you out further.

I think that it's perfectly normal to come on here and complain, and I think you, in your frazzled state were just on the defense when Pep commented. (Been there done that...with a few people). Pep is a straight shooter, and I've been on the receiving end of the patented *Pep Talk*, it jars me back to reality, I am so thankful that Pep is around to do that for me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I don't think Pep was suggesting that you shouldn't come here and vent, just that after you were done to formulate a plan.....gotta have a plan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I hope things will be better for you very soon KMEJ, I'm pullin' for ya'!

-Caren

For future reference. I've found that in addition to the wet towel, an alcohol rub worked for my son.

Hi KMEJ,

Personally, I didn't have a problem with your "mood" yesterday but I'll accept your apology <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> .

I know how scary it is when we start realizing that we've been putting in effort and making decisions based on half-truths, dishonesty, and blatant lies.

I know how confusing it is to determine what we should do when we don't know what's the truth and what's not. If someone made a translator that we could hook up to their mouths so that no matter what words they said it would be translated into what is true, it would be a lot easier! Since no one yet has invented one of those, the only Truth-O-Meter we have is their ACTIONS.

KMEJ, I know how scary and confusing it is. The only way that I have found to get through it is to be honest with myself about myself and to make decisions based on what are my truths at the time. It starts and ends with me, whether FWH is in my life or not.

One thing that has helped me to not get caught up in trying to figure out if FWH is being honest or dishonest at any given moment is to believe his actions. And when his words are different than his actions, I give him the benefit of the doubt that what he's saying COULD be true but I remain neutral until it proves out. If FWH wants me to believe his words, then he will make sure he follows them with actions that match. If his words are not honest, the actions won't ever match no matter how long I look for it or how long I wait. My stress level and my emotional level greatly decreases when I stay neutral about him and focus on making my words and actions match. When I don't stay neutral, I start responding with my old crappy habits and then I'm miserable. It starts and ends with me--and that's both powerful and terrifying at the same time! With practice, it's a lot more powerful and only a little scary. I'm hoping that with more practice it won't be scary at all and only self-empowering.

It starts and ends with you too, KMEJ. What do you want for yourself no matter who is in your life and who isn't? What is a characteristic that you would like for yourself but haven't acquired yet? What is a characteristic that you want to keep? I started by answering those questions.

Take care <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Miker, glad to hear you so up beat and happy. Any new progress on things with your WW?

Caren- I was glad to read that you and your H are back together- good for you!! Thanks for reminding me that I am not alone. You are right that Pep is a straight shooter, and I meant no disrespect, I was, your right on the defensive, as I was over tired and crabby and I guess looking for a fight.... better with a computer screen then with my H, because I know I would not win that one.

K,

WW and I are done, finished, caput. OM can have her cause I don't want her anymore. I know its sad, and I feel sad about it especially for the kids, but there is only so much a person can take. Each person has their limits. Mine were toppled a few months back.

So that chapter is now over and its on to the next! And so far so good. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger, right?

Cheers,

Miker

K, why would you think people would be so judgemental as to tell you what your H does to fulfill your needs and make you happy is not enough? I think you yourself know its not good enough so you dont want to post it. Maybe sharing it would help you identify what you DO need and how to achieve that.

I talked to my H last night about your sitch (hope you dont mind) to try to get some feedback and he thinks that your H is so afraid of losing you that he's trying to keep your self esteem in the ground, and that is why he never compliments you. As for not helping you, he is of the opinion that its immaturity and a little bit of chauvinism that stops him.

I'm glad your little one is ok K, you must have had a rough night.

Miker- sorry I was not up to date. I hope that you are okay and so are the kids. I am glad you are finding peace. You sound like a wonderful father.

Shelly- no I am not mad that you spoke to your husband about this, Extra feed back is always welcome. I appriciate the insight.

Yes last night was a doosey- however my son is now better, the work day is complete and now I just get to spend time with my boys and be out side. Today is a new day. I know that H is mad at me for one reason or another...however right now I do not care....

Still would like a better marriage and relationship- however I need to realize that it is not all H who is making it bad. Maybe it is time I grow up some, thanks.

i know the hurt and the pain...we all do. as far as making it go away----pack his bags, go dark and get into therapy. when he has also done therapy then, and only then do you allow him back....that is if you still want him by then...

I'm glad your son is ok. If you all are going outside make sure he takes it easy. And from one co dependent wife to another (I swear you, dani ,and I should form a club) I understand. We need to figure out and work on what makes US happy, separate from our H's. Got 10 tons of laundry to do. Ill check back later. Bye.

Thank you. You are too kind. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I do love being a father.

You sound like a great mother too. I'm sure your marital situation complicates things though. I know it did for me. Although its exhausting right now I find it much easier to be the best father now than I did previously. Look to your boys for strength... mine showed me what true strength is through all this. They are incredible... I'm so proud! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I do hope the best for you. It breaks my heart to see good people getting a raw deal. Keep posting and don't give up. I'm sure you will eventually find peace and happiness you deserve.

Miker

KMEJ, Whats your Mom and Dad's relationship like ? And their relationship with you ?

Well to answer your question Bob- my parents are divorced. They seperated when I was in elementary school, tried several times to reconcile, however my mother could not give up the OM. So they ended up having a nasty divorce, and hateing eachother for years. Now they are both remarried- actually my dad remarried exactly 1 week to the day after his Divorce was final.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> My mom and the OM married a few years down the road. I love both my stepdad and my stepmom- they are both wonderful people. It took my parents over 10 years and my grandmother dying before they would even be in the same room as one another, even for a grandchild's birthday. Now they will talk on occasion, however their feelings are easily hurt, and they make some point to not share, but we usually can tell. When my H started his Affair, my mother was LIVID with him, called him at work and yelled at him. My dad did his best to support me, they did the best they can. Right now my mother Hates my H for all he has done and continues to do, my father is not real pleased with him but has decided that spitting venum is not good for me, so he lends a listening ear and a strong shoulder. I pretty much stick to myself, as what I tell them either makes my fathers blood pressure raise, or my mother will never drop it and tells everyone. I love them both dearly, and have the greatest respect for them. However since the Affair my relationship with my mother and sister who used to be my best friends are now strained, and my relationship with my father that was once strained, is now closer. Figure that one out <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Caren:

Yeah I agree with what you say to a point. "For better or worse", means alot but NEVER to a point of self destruction. There is nothing "noble" at all in being a doormat, and accepting a WS who lies, cheats, betrays, and who exposes you to countless humiliations, STD's and financial ruin. It does not take a "strong" person to "stick it out" through all of that. That takes a very weak, cowardly person with no self love and no self esteem. I am not talking about your situation specifically, but in general.

There is nothing "noble" at all in what KMEJ is doing in staying with her WH now. She is a great mom and person, but she has absolutely no SELF RESPECT or SELF LOVE for herself. She may not even know that. People who love themselves do NOT take the extreme physical and emotional abuse that she suffers daily. Believe me, it is daily. She is operating under "false premises" in staying with her WH now. That is what we all have tried to help her with everday for the past 6 months. She will defintely learn the lesson in this, but it is just my hope that the "cost" of that lesson is not great to her children or her in the end. I am certainly no MB or Steve Harley scholar (more like a flunkie), but I know that Harley never intended for a BS to accept this type of behavior in exchange for "staying married".

I decided to post today because the very thought that anyone thinks that what she is doing is "noble" or should be applauded disgusts me. We should NEVER encourage this behavior from a BS. This is the very reason that I stil continue to occassionaly post on the board, even at the risk of "heat" from those who dislike me. If even one person can be saved from even one day of self destructive behavior by reading my post then it is worth it.

Caren, I hope someday the "bargain" that you are keeping with staying with your WH is worth it. Right now, I would surmise that you are getting what you are paying for.

With always the best of intentions,

LM (aka sourmale)

Shelly:

This is the 100% truth. This is the "house of cards" that all abusers live by. This is their strength. Their strength is in their abusee's weakness.

LM

Yes, now why does my H know this? I think he uses that to a lesser degree than K's H.

Hi Lemonman,

You made me laugh when you called yourself an MB flunkie and said that what you posted wasn't MB. I think it IS MB. Very MB.

In fact, Harley advises to NOT use Plan A/Plan B when there is abuse or active addiction because it is COUNTERPRODUCTIVE. Harley says abuse and/or addiction must be dealt with before any marriage coaching is sought and that marital recovery cannot happen without addressing the abuse or addiction first.

Take care Sourguy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />