Things aren't going to well. Wife is very detached, says she's not sure she wants to stay married. She loves me, but she's not sure it's the right kind of love. We took the emotional needs questionaire and I don't fill too many of her needs. She didn't realize she was this unhappy untill she took the test. She says that explains alot and kind of explains why she had her affair.

She says she's unwilling to change. She wants a certain amount of independence from me. She also says that right now she feels trapped. I think her affair is over, but she works with him and I do believe there has been some contact, both direct and indirect, but she claims there hasn't been.

Counseling has been a bust and our life together is just getting more and more difficult to keep together. I'm still not over the affair and that seems to anger her. She says that I will never be over it and it will make me even more insecure and thus make her feel smothered.

It's a vicious cycle, and she doesn't want to change for the marriage. It doesn't look very good. I still love my wife deeply, but it's hard to show her. I just haven't gotten over the resentment and the fact that she never opened up completely about her affair.

When do you know it's time to give up and move on?

GTO, I have to run but this caught my eye. Start filling those EN's. Best place to start now that you know what they are.

It's on my list of things to start doing. But I'm still working through a lot of resentment. I seem to be doing a lot of damage.

***I'm still not over the affair and that seems to anger her. She says that I will never be over it and it will make me even more insecure and thus make her feel smothered.***

grove, your wife has got you right where she wants you. She's playing you like a fiddle and you are dancing to her tune.

First -- I would bet any amount that her affair is not over. She's just managed to let you think it is, because that's what you want to believe anyway (of course.) You are buying this bullpucky about how she's "confused" and "doesn't know what she wants." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

If she is (a) still working with the OM, and (b) treating you like crap, you can be sure that the affair continues on some level.

Second -- By her staying angry and blaming YOU for all of this, she keeps you totally off-balance, totally powerless, and right where she wants you.

According to her, the affair is YOUR FAULT because you didn't meet her emotional needs. (I'll bet yours weren't being met either, but did you have an affair?

According to her, YOU should feel guilty because you are "upset" about her affair. (Read that two or three times.)

According to her, if the marriage fails it is YOUR fault because you can't sweep her affair under the rug, stuff down your feelings of shock and outrage, and pretend like nothing ever happened. (Read that six or eight times.)

So,what to do? Well, for starters, stop letting her scare you. That's what she wants. The more scared and powerless you are, the more you will back off, and the more freedom she will have to (a) continue her affair and (b) go through life guilt-free about it.

Find the link for WAT's Quick-Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses. Maybe somebody here can post the link - I don't have it myself.

Look under "Articles" at the top of the MB pages and read more about how to handle this. You need a short Plan A (because it's obvious your wife is a cake-eater) followed by a good Plan B.

You have more power and control here than you know. Stop letting her control this thing and call all the shots and make all the decisons. Look where that has gotten YOU so far.

Read, read, read and keep posting. Post before you do anything. The long-timers here will let you know if you're on the right track.
Good luck.
Mulan

I hope she's not as devious as it seems. She says there is no way should would ever cheat again. She just doesn't know if she wants to stay in the marriage. She hates the way I've acted since d-day.

Do I think she's still seeing the guy, maybe, I'm not stupid enough to think that she just woke up one morning and decided she no longer had feelings for the OM. She claims she was planning on ending it, I just beat her to it.

I don't know, part of her behavior says she's still in the affair and then there's the part that says she understands the damage she's caused and doesn't want to do something like that again. It's more likely that the affair is on semi-hold while she figures out what she wants to do.

She won't do a plan b. She says if I leave, she'll file for divorce. She doesn't want to just separate. She is in the drivers seat. The counselor says to just stick in there. As long as she's staying, there's a chance the marriage can be saved. The problem is, this is just a miserable environment to live in.

I guess my question still remains. When do you know it's time to give up on the marriage?

***She won't do a plan b.***

Grove -- if you are saying this, then you don't understand Plan B.

Plan A and Plan B are not something SHE does.

They are things that YOU do.

You do not need her cooperation or permission to do them.

That's why they are so effective.

Keep reading here, and NOT just on the message boards!

***She says if I leave, she'll file for divorce. She doesn't want to just separate. She is in the drivers seat.***

And she will stay there as long as you roll over on your back and just let her drive.

***The counselor says to just stick in there.***

And like somebody said -- how's that workin' for ya?

***As long as she's staying, there's a chance the marriage can be saved.***

As long as she's staying but you let her control everything, there's a BETTER chance things will go on just as they are.

***The problem is, this is just a miserable environment to live in.***

Of course it is! That's why we want you to DO something instead of just sitting back helplessly, wringing your hands and hoping that somehow she'll do all the work. She's not going to to ANYTHING but continue bullying you so she can go on with her affair unimpeded and not have to feel guilty about it. You can bet the house on that.

***I guess my question still remains. When do you know it's time to give up on the marriage?***

You sound like you've already given up on it, but it doesn't have to be that way. You will, though, have to stand up and find your backbone. Right now you are in shock and your wife is using that to her full advantage.

Again: Read on this site -- look up on the red banner at the top of the page where it says "Articles" -- about Plan A and Plan B. Order a book by James Dobson called *Love Must Be Tough* -- it has helped many people here.

And don't give up unless you really want to. Dr. Phil says a person must earn their way out of a marriage, so that if they do finally leave they at least know they did everything in their power to save it.

Can you say the same, at this point?
Mulan

I think I understand Plan A and B, I'm just not good at putting them into action.

Wife did call today to inform me that she did see the OM during a meeting, but they didn't talk or make eye contact. I thought it was a nice gesture on her part. She didn't have to tell me anything.

What I did do. I went to see an attorney and had the papers drawn up. I told my wife that I couldn't live they way we've been living. I feel she's been disrespectful of my feelings and that this would either have to change, or I would have to leave the marriage. For the record, it's not a threat; I do intend to follow through. I'm willing to give things a chance, but not on the terms that we've been existing with since D-Day. We'll see what happens. Life does go on and change is inevitable.

While I still haven't gotten completely over the fact that my wife has never completely opened up about the details of her affair. The fog has lifted some, and I'm finally seeing things a little more clearly.