Hi, new here. Just found this forum and thought i'd give it a go. Maybe someone here with a few more years experience, or a different perspective can offer some adice

Ok, so this might be a long one and i'm sorry, i tend to get really detailed..sorry about typos, I stink at typing.

OK, so heres the basic problem. I (im 24) and my husband (he's 25) have been married just a little over 2 years, we where together for 6 months as a couple before that and before that we where 'best buds'. OK, now, i know that dosent nessisarly make us newly weds anymore, but he joined the army about 3 months after we got married because he wanted some schooling and we both where having major trouble finding reliable jobs. So, we were married on Jan 18 2003, he joined in April 1 2003, and from that date to feb 3 of this year we have seen eachother a grand total of 2 months and 2 weeks due to boot camp, being sent to germany then being deployed to iraq for a year. So that makes 8 months we have actully spent on the same contonent since getting married. So besides him just being a voice on the phone once a month or a pen on paper sometimes.. we really havnt had much time together since. Most of those few weeks here and there, we just kinda 'goofed off' trying not to think about being seperated agian and avoiding 'issues' at all costs so as not to waist presious time on fighting.

well he's finally back and its just been a downward spiral ever since.

Now i know the army offers marriage counseling and help and advocacy and everything, but i've tried that and all they say is: hang in there, life is hard, talk to god. Well, we arnt christans.. so, no help there. and my parents have been threatening devorce to eachother for 20 years and they still live in the same house.. so i'm reluctant to talk girl to my mother, and i have no girlfriends, and the army dosnt pay enough to go to a counseler.

I'm getting to the point where i'm starting to mentally devide up our stuff and am thinking of quick breaks so i can just get over with the trouble and leave while i'm still young and can start fresh.

So, shall i start from the beginning?

I dont know even how we ended up getting married, it just sorta slid into it. I didnt love him at first, he was one of the 'groupies' that used to hang around the store i worked in- then he ended up getting a job there with me, then he was giving me rides to work when (at the time i was engaged to be married to someone else) my fiance would take my truck. Then, after finding out the hard way that my fiance had a nasty drug habit, he was the guy that came over to help me move back to my parents house. We where just friends and drinking buddies for almost a year after that. I had even helped set him up with another girl i knew... then one night, we drank a bit to much and ended up in bed. The next day we desided we worked out pretty good because we had been friends for so long that we already knew eachothers bad habits unmasked. So we where dating.

Then, one day i had this hair-brained idea that if we got married (for just alittle while), he could go to school for free because my mom got free education for family from the school she worked at and we both BADLY needed to get more stable jobs. I brought it up almost half jokingly- we were just desperate to figure something out besides our crappy jobs. And he gets beat red and looks at me and says, but i want to marry you anyway. awwww... My haert melted, it was sweet, and i thought- you know, i care for him more than as a lover, i care for him as a friend- i think it will work, i say 'lets do it!'. But that was probably the high point since then, sadly.

I really do love him.. and its the kind of love, where i dont even know why sometimes.. i mean i do for little things, but when i look at all the big things, the things that matter and, in the real world, make a relationship, i feel like i've been failed by him.

After telling me that he wants to marry me for real, he says he dosnt want to talk about it untill its 'official', he says he wants to propose properly with a ring and all. So i shut up about it and dont tell anyone untill he's ok with it. Ofcouse i drop little hints about what i think would be romantic and what kind of ring i'd like (silver, celtic, no stones, something personal engraved inside, sz4.5) but he told me he didnt want any help, he wanted to do something speacial and memorable on his own. I backed off and gave him space.. then finnaly the day came, he said he'd planed something really big and couldnt wait.

He told me we'd go out for a meal, so i dressed up somewhat.. he takes me to the park, at mid day (florida 98 degrees) for a hike. Ok, i go with it- i'm uncomfortable, but i keep my mouth shut aside from saying 'gee, thought we were going to a restraunt, wish id wore something suited to this'. Mind you, theres no actul lunch packed or even drinks.. nothing. We mill around and walk for about an hour, finnaly make it over to the dock at the lake where i was repeatedly dive bombed by wasps, so i jumping from side to side, checking my back trying to keep the wasps away and start to give up and go somewhere where there isnt wasps, when he shoves a ring into, no onto, my hand and says 'thats for you'.(aw gee thanks), and i say 'and...' and he says 'and what?', me: 'we'll are you atleast going to put it on my finger?'. him: 'why?'.. and its a silver ring, size 3 with a HUGE turquoise.. pretty, but too small, too big a stone..The reason this made me mad was because he KNEW what i wanted and seemingly just got the first thing he saw, no effort. He didnt put any thought into what he was going to say, didnt try to be the least bit loving about it- I didnt even want a ring or proposal, just if he insisted on proposing proper "asking me for my hand in marriag" then i wanted a loving thought out proposal (no matter how short) and a ring that i could wear all the time, that wouldnt get in the way because i work with my hands alot. Sure enough, the stone fell out of it a week later. and i was wearing it with tape on my pinky. So, i really tried agian to keep my mouth shut because i didnt want to embarrass him or make him feel crappy, but i calmly explained why that situation would be distressing to me, and that in the future i expected more thought and consideration. Work me up for something and not make it special and personal- i felt like i was playing pretend with the 5yr old down the block.

So that kind of let down has been common place in our relationship ever since. Yes, i am still holding a grudge about it because i expected something memorable, something 'wow!' something worth the big deal he made about it in the 2 weeks before hand. And he hasnt done anything since.

We desided to write our own vows (mutual desision, not pushed by me) and plan a small unconventional wedding where our friend got ordained and preformed the cerimony joels mom cooked, our friend played the gituar.. real nice and homey. I wrote the cerimony script and made my own dress and poured my heart out into the vows i wrote. All he had to do was write his vows- thats it, and i remined him as nicly as i could, i expected no other help because i know guys hate that kind of thing. And on our wedding day when it was his turn to receit his vows he went: "uhhh...ummm... uh, dam, i should have wrote them down..." he did eventully say something along the lines of what the traditional wedding vows are.. but not till after i felt like crawling into a hole. I mean, i poured my little heart out, as nervous i was about saying all that aloud- i spent weeks writing them, i just felt really unimportant.

So anyway.. Theres that, theres him saying he had something planed for the honey moon that never happened, theres him saying he had something planed just before leaving to boot camp and that never happened- and every time he blamed it on outside cercumstanses.

Now, i'm one to get things done no matter what gets in my way... if i want it done i AM going to do it. But he just gives up. The first little sign of possalbe defeat or difficulty, he gives up and quits.

He didnt write or call so much while he was gone, but i can understand, after the first year, you run out of ways to say i miss you and he didnt want to tell me about the scary things that were happening because then id worry.. and when your not calling or writing, you dont have to think about being seperated.. let a few days slip by without contact, let a few more- then your almost done.. its easer for men that way, i guess. They seem to get through it by not talking, unlike how women need to talk. Now, before you start to think this a post traumatic stress thing.. ITS NOT. He was just a mechanic down there, he had a play station, A/C, a gameboy all the books he could want, new release movies, burger king, a pool. I have been quite assured by him that the only difference is that i wasnt there and he couldnt wear jeans.

So that brings us up to now.. He's been back home for 3 months now. And it almost seemed fresh because it had been so long- 9 months since i saw him before that. And its just been fighting and the silent treatment. It started out good but, our intamacy is dwindling.. It's always "quickies", and rarely unless i beg, then he gets on the computer and plays games. As soon as he gets home he plays computer. If i use the computer for a bit, he plays play station. I have tried to get him in to ‘exploring’ or anything else to spark his intrest, anything he wants.. it dosnt seem to work

I dont have a job right now (theres not alot i can do in germany), so i've devoted full time to upkeep. Cleaning, fixing the computer, sewing, ironing, errands, paperwork, bills, washing and fixing the cars.. pretty much everything thats not him going to work which is fine with me..but that means he has vertully no 'honey do's' when he gets home, no chores on the weekends. Nothing.. No extra stress here because we dont have kids, just a cat. and i dont expect any thank you's because i belive thats my job if im not working otherwise

He's been really forgetfull about me though. He'll think i like something that i have never liked, he'll come in when he knows i just mopped, track mud all over the floor, leave dirty cloths on the floor- next to the hamper, leave dirty dishes in some odd place so i dont find them untill they start to smell. He knows im a neat freak, so i've begged for a comprimise, i'll lighten up is he trys to clean up after himself a little. He promises, but it never happens.

I balance all the checkbooks and acounts.. so the rule is if he uses his check card he has to keep the reciepts or atleast remember the amount so we dont bounce a check.. and he never dose, so i am commonly up nights trying to figure it out.

He drinks ALOT, but for him its not much because he's not falling over drunk, but i think its too much and i've asked for severl nights a week where he dosnt drink... and it dosnt happen.

We have frequintly made 'romanitic' or 'exclusive' plans just to have him blow them off and invite his friends out to get drunk.. or he gets drunk and passes out before anything can happen.

He is a huge procrastinator, never dose anything till the last minute if he dose it at all.

and all of that stuff above, he has blamed on something else. Its never his fault, never. How can a person learn from thier mistakes if they cant even admit to themselves that they screwed up? Screwups are ok if you learn from them!

and god help me, i've become a nag because of it. I dont want to be that person, but iv tryed hints, ive tryed, asking politly, iv tryed flat out saying, ive tryed notes, letters...and i just find myself repeating myself over and over about the kinds of things above.. i sound like a broken record.

Its all stuff like that.. basically me saying something and it flying right by him. It wasnt this bad before, but since he's been home, the bad stuff is way outweighing the good.

I know these are fairly normal problems, but compounded and ocurring everyday, i find myself asking if its worth saving, should i be putting up with this? I dont want to be like my mom threating devorce for 20 years.

I fell like a ghost..and we used to be really inlove, we used to be best friends.. now i bearly feel like a roomate

also i think ive made alot of sacrifies to make this work, i left my family and friends and job and came over here because he wanted to join the army, everytime he 'gives up' on somthing important, i run behind him and fix it (yes i have not done that a few times to try to teach him a lesson on holding his own, but he just dosent seem to realize that thing didnt happen because he gave up). I really didnt want to be an army wife, i was an army brat and my mom hated it.. but i promised in my vows id follow him, and i did. I always try to understand every angle in an agrument.. i really do admit it if i'm wrong, maybe not right away.. but i do.

I'm not trying to sound like a marter here. I've just had my fair share of relationships, and i UNDERSTAND what it takes to make it work and how fragile a thing love is. I pay attention to other peoples mistakes and try to learn from them and mine. But this is NOT going the way i want my marriag to go.. and it seems the harder i try to turn it in the right direction, the worse it gets lately.

I'm not happy, and i dont think he is either.. though he says he is.. he dosnt act like it. I kinda think these things are just symptoms of some bigger problem since they have been progressing so rapidly.

I know our cercumstances are probably a major part of this, and when i ask him why things are going the way they are he always blames it on work. He says "when im out of the army things will get better" but they wont! there will always be stress from the outside world, he will always have to deal with it, so i say, deal with it now, not later.. its not going to go away on its own, and even if it did go away when he's out of the army, by then, i fear our relationship will be to mucked up to save.

For 3 weeks i have been trying to get him to sit down with me, figure out whats really the matter- have a talk, bond a bit. And always its in a minute, later, tommorow. If i try to just talk, then he huffs and gets mad and we get in a fight and get nowhere.

Sometimes i try to wait till he's idel a minute, but the conversation seems to get steered twords more trivial things like "such and such was such a jerk today".

I dont know what to do. Latly i've just kinda given up and felt just turned off. Like a computer in sleep mode. Apathetic. But i know a person can waste thier whole like like that if not carful. I know the problem is porbably me too, something im doing or not doing.. but ever time I try to find out how I could improve he tells me hes fine with things the way they are. No help.. so I try to think of things that I do that might bug me.. and he says no, I don’t care about that..I try to show him books and websites like this, read and learn together, but he takes this stance like “I don’t need any help, I know what im doing”

Well.. I guess that about sums it up. I don’t know what to do or even if I have a right to be angry about these things. I guess I have just nitpicked it and turned it over in my head so many times that’s I am beginning to confuse myself

So, ill stop here.. sorry sorry about the length.

Wow, that's a lot of stuff.

You and he need to sit down and decide if this relationship is something you're going to continue at all. If it is, there are tools on this site that can helpbring you together, help work through some of the issues.

But if he's not willing to work on it, then you have to decide if you're willing to stay...

I would review the material on this site in the concepts section, then look ath te Q&A section where Dr. H takes the material in the concepts section and applies it to real-world scenarios.

Dr. H's His Need/Her Needs book may be of interest to you for informational purposes as well.

You may have to try something drastic, like a plan B or similar. But in someway you ened to get his attention, and get him to realize that *THIS IS IMPORTANT*.

Ok, so first off i made a little list about all the stuff that bothers me that he dose/dosnt do, then i made a list about what i think i need to change about myself.. after much beating around the bush i got him to 'kinda' sit down and talk to me about it.

I mean, it started as a fight, then it mellowed, then he got definsive.. then he got apolagetic. But, it was oddly familiar, its the same conversation we've been having, over and over... Why do i keep thinking i got through this time?

Ok, so the night i wrote the post, i guess he must have found it on the computer or perhaps my telling him the night before that i was unhappy because he keeps putting off talking to me.. i woke up this morning and he had straitened up before going to work and left a note for me. Odd. He said he had thought about it, and desided he should help me around the house. So i tried to explain, that yes it is effort i want, but not directed in that way. I dont mind doing all the cleaning as long as he dosnt contribute to the mess right after ive cleaned. Infact, i prefere to do the cleaning because i can do it right the first time.

So i tryed to use that angle to open the conversation then i showed him this website and pointed out the pages i thought were most relivant... and darn him! he can be such a self rightous, cynical fool! after reading it, i asked him his thoughts on it and he said- this dosent apply to us, how dose some quack on the interent, trying to make a buck off people, know anything about me, im an individual! So i tryed to say, that look, even if it was a 15yr old kid writing it from some humanities class, the info is still good info, it makes since, and if we'er not getting any help otherwise, why not try, the worse that can happen is that we find it dosent work- which direction we are heading in fast with no help anyway! (no logic!) He dosnt want to take the info to heart because he think he knows what best for him (not us!). So, that was a request that i made to "deposit in my love bank", that he would at least consider and be open to outside help of this kind. So we read over the needs questionair together and he says he just dosnt need or want anything.

I just dont understand. How can a person not need or want anything from thier mate- or any other person for that matter. I mean, i even asked if he would want it were it from someone/somewhere else, which would be something atleast!

He wants no approval, admiration, respect or even support from me or anyone? He even said he's not interested in intamacy.. he just simply dosnt want it much (why? he dosnt know)

He again tried to blame this on his job- i know its stressful (he wanted to do it, though- do you hear an i told you so?) but if its not that then it will be something else. THees always going to be stress, thats just the kind of lives we lead, but theres no reason it should govern his life completely.. i tried to say this. To say that, in a way, he's being selfish by shutting down because he is stressed out, by shutting down and not taking every step possable to fix it, even therapy, whatever- just want it bad enough.

I mean we talked alot, but i'm still not quite satisifed that what i said really made a point.

i've been begging him to cut down on the drinking, so today i quit smoking (yup!) to make a "trade" of quitting bad habits..

But he did have some good ideas on his own about what it is i needed.. Like more one on one time, and being asked before he makes plans for us with his friends. But he seems to think thats all ther is to it.. he's done. But that isnt all, first he needs to catch up to the stuff he's been neglecting, then he needs to exceed that, and i will too.

Anyway, another big break. Today they told him he's likly to be deployed for another year sometime around beginning 2006. So i get this feeling that things are going to rapidly go down hill the closser that day comes. The more he gets mad at having to go, the more he will slack off and neglect 'us'. Now heres the tricky part. All i can think of is how I AM going to be affected by this, how, if we cant get this solved before then, i just dont think i can do another year alone stewing about these problems that were never fixed from even 2 years ago. The seperation is easyer when theres no 'loose ends', when the only thing you want to say is 'i miss you', not we need to talk about our problems when you get home in a year..

Darnit, theres just never enough time in the world.

Perhaps, i'm not willing to stay because my life has just been absorded into these problems.. but if i choose not to, if in the end i choose to move on with my life, then now, with this new weight, i fear he wont remain stable...and i do still care..

But when is it ok to say "ive had enough"? when do i get to the point where i'm just being stuborn?

After re-reading this post, i realize it sound like he's got a problem with depression, but, i have tried to talk to him about that also- to say that the first part is to realize the problem, then seek help, or in the very least, make an active attempt to 'feel better' and figure out what the root cause is, but when i say he might need to see a theriapist about it, he gets very definsive and angry, so i try not to bring it up as it dosnt seem to solve anything.

Sorry about the rant.

Jaye Mathisen , i really appriciated your reply. I guess maybe just typing here has helped alot, to get these feelings out of my head and on to something tangable.

Thank you...

Your 2nd post adds much information.

I'll toss out a few thoughts here, you see if you like any of them.

It is a basic fundamental principle that you can't change anybody else, you can only change yourself. So anything you try with the expectation that *he* is going to change, will only be a disappointment to you, because you cannot force it. He *may* change, and that's good, that's the goal, but do not tackle this project thinking you will make him change.

I think before you do any more talking to your H about your relationship, you really need to really, really, really process the BC, and wrap your brain around the LoveBusters. DJ's, all that stuff. You need to read and absorb the material on the love bank and ho wit works. Deposits, withdrawals, all that good stuff.

Then you need to eliminate all LB's from your interactions with your H. Yes, he should eliminate them from his, but that's not the point here.

You need to eliminate the word "you" from interactions with your H. A new style of communication needs to replace the current style that is focused not on accusation, or condemnation, or anything like that, but instead a style of conversation based on mutual respect and equality.

If you post on the EN section, you can find several people tha tcan help you re-program your thinking on how to communicate, and how to get rid of the LB's and stuff. The EN forum gets more traffic than this one.

I think that's enough to get you started. Be warned, this will not be easy, but it is not impossible that your relationship can be restored. Take responsiblity for your part, make the changes you need to, and then step back and see how it's going. YOu may see a significant softening. Men (and i know, this is a generalization, but I think it's moderatly accurate) tend to withdraw and isolate when faced with confrontation or obstacles in relational matters. We're going to try to embrace the problem...

But again, really read the material on the lovebank and lovebusters. Much good info. His Needs/Her Needs is another excellent resource that can help.