Deeplysorry,

With all due respect to Sprint's much vaunted 'moral, analytical' mind, I have to disagree with him on a few points.

1. He says that:


While it is true that affairs [EA, PA or EA/PA] are born out of secrecy and deception, they don't necessarily end the moment they are exposed to the light of day. Sure, exposure does inject a lethal dose of reality to most affairs and hastens their demised but until their is NC the affair is still ongoing.

2. The moment he started confiding his marital problems to another woman other you his W, he crossed a dangerous marital boundary and an EA was born. The ONLY woman that a married man should confide his marital problems to is his W [his mother or sister being the exception of course].

3. You, a woman, know very well that even if there is a one-way emotional attraction established, the woman who is attracted will suffer deeply from an unrequited love [more so a very young woman]. So if your WH truly cared about her, he would tell her that he can no longer have anymore contact with her. Sure it would hurt her deeply but the sooner he does this the sooner she will be on the road to personal recovery. As it stand now, he is not protecting her, he is hurting her [and you of course] and the sooner he realizes this the better.

I hope that he becomes aware of these points and acts accordingly for everybody's sake.

TMCM

This is what I am worried about. I talked to my mom about it (she is my confident - helps me through this all - she wants to wring my neck, but also provides unconditional support)

I am not worried about him, I am worried about her. I know when I was 20 or so - you attach very easily. I just see her attaching, and when things are good for H and I, I see her getting hurt.

She now KNOWS he is attracted to him, but wont act on it. As a woman, a young single woman, who is coming out of a hardship - that is an open invitation to get to know and befriend someone.

I just see her as a complication down the line for his workplace. I think as he gets over his need for her, but still has to work with her, she will be hurt. I think they will always be friends, but as things go forward with me, she will feel left behind, even if she was warned up front.

Right now she is a student on a practicum, and he told me that they plan on hiring her when her practicum is done. I just don't think this is smart.

BUT - I am in no position to say this - I need to trust him. I know he feels she is the innocent party and that he is not protecting her, that he is just being fair, she stopped being innocent when she acknowleged she felt there was an attraction as well, and didn't want to interfere with him and I, and he told her that was up in the air, but while he was married to me there couldn't be anything.

The same way I UN intentionally left the door open for OM when I said goodbye (before NC letter was sent), I believe he has UNintentionally left the door open for her.

And as much as I trust him, it's hard to deal with the fact that he cares enough for her that my discomfort doesn't matter. But once again, I put the OM before him, so I can't argue with him.

So, I take in faith, and I trust him. And when all this comes, it may be a mess at work, but we will deal with it.

I am just happy that he is home with me, and still wanting us, regardless of her.

Deeplysorry,

I agree with your comments but I still think its a good idea for you and your belly dancing class girlfriend to go out a few days a week to have some good, clean fun. Remember that all work and no play make DS a dull girl.

TMCM

My H had an EMA for 2 months until I found out (D-day Feb 14 2005) and just ended it a few weeks ago.

Right after D-day, I would do anything to get him back and put our M back together. I wanted him to love me again and help me heal.

That didn't happen. H was confused and fencesitting until I finally felt I could leave him and be okay. That took about 2 months on my part (I think its part of the daze WS feel).

It took me some time, but I finally gave him a real ultimatum and I was emotionally and financially ready to move on without him. He decided to come back to M and heal.

But I'm different. I still carry the anger and resentment but now I'm stronger. I have more confidence in myself. I look great now that I'm 25 pounds lighter and I'm getting attention from other men.

Before EMA, I had complete loyalty to H and felt he had the same to me. Now my view of him is different and the only thing that keeps me from following through with the attention I receive is that I know its not the right thing to do.

Your H might be feeling the same mix of anger and strength I do.

I like your letter and the part about how similar his actions are to yours before the EMA. Its good to get that across to him.

I agree with Truetoself that it has to be more focused on "we" than "me". I know you're frustrated and upset, but be a little more loving in your tone.

What helps me is when my H talks about our future and what he's going to do to help it and help heal us. His confidence in our future together boosts my willingness to be a part of it.

It was eye-opening to hear him talk about the destruction he did to himself emotionally by having the A. I never thought of it that way - I always thought he was the happy one. I still feel my pain is way more than his, but knowing that he did damage to himself as well has helped me understand the situation better.

What's strange is as time goes on, he feels more and more regretful and sad while I feel stronger.

I wish you the best and hope your H wakes up to what he is doing if he truly wants the M.

DS, IMVHO by telling this young woman about his attraction to her he opened the door to an EA with the very scary possibility of a PA in the future. The line is crossed once that attraction is voice aloud to the person you are attracted to. This young woman has got to go. I am sorry I know because of your A you feel you have no right to request it but that is exactly how my A began.

It was exactly how mine started to.

DS,

You wrote: “I know this girl isn’t a threat, but I also know that H and I were BEST friends for 6 months before we started dating, and in the 1 year we were engaged/dated, and 6 years we have been married, he has never had a friendship with a woman. We have couple friends, but not someone he enjoys time with.”

She is a blip on your marital radar. She may be a false alarum, but you and Sprint need to take appropriate action: POJA and RH everything to do with her.

IMO, it’s OK for Sprint to have female friends, but not exclusive ones. You should be a couple in this. So find new couple friends that he does enjoy time with. It’s sort of an EN you both need to meet.

AS TMCM writes, it is not OK to discuss his M problems with her. He may end up unintentionally leading her on. But he did tell you he didn’t want to do this so he at least seems aware of this possibility. He sounds trustworthy to me, actually. But, as you know, addiction to the emotional connection is a dangerous possibility despite his best intentions.

Important: if she is a direct report to him at work, there is also a huge potential for him landing in very hot water. Think EEO legal actions and firings all around. She might even make things up if she someday feels jilted or passed over for promotion. Or other employees might file complaints if they feel passed over because of even an appearance of a relationship between them. Perceptions are reality in the world of business ethics

That being said, showing Sprint you trust him will help validate his personal recovery. Like most of us BSs, he is very confused and in a lot of pain. Nothing much makes sense any more and won’t for a long, long time. He is thrashing around. Trusting him while he sort of tests you and himself will help pull him out of this pit of despair sooner than not.

Trust but verify: a good motto to live by for the time being.

You wrote: “Why do I feel like I am competing? I know I am not - but it really feels that way?”

A little competition can sometimes be a good thing. Might even be just what the Dr ordered. May be it’s what he is hoping to see from you. Hey, maybe you should join the Goddess Club here on MB. They seem to have a healthy attitude about this sort of thing.

I am happy last night was reassuring and rejuvenating for you. I suspect it was in some measure for Sprint too.

With prayers for your family,

A

This is my fear and I think his - he asked me to remain civil and be nice and never bring this to the office where she is as he doesn't need - oh she was being mean to me and the office problems that come along. I told him, I would never treat someone that way, but that doesn't mean I have to be comfortable with it.

The company he is in is growing fast and he has just opened a new division - she is his first recruit - doing free practicum work (she was doing another practicum, but left that one to do this one with the permission of the school. In that defense - where my H is, it is a HUGE opportunity for anyone in her shoes and will make her career)

I am more worried about the mess that may happen not due to him, but the fact that he in a way left the door open for some hope for her by saying that the marriage is still in the air, and he is attracted to her - even though he followed it up with, my marriage comes first, and I can't have a relationship while my marriage exists and I have to figure that out - she knows the dynamics of our problems and admitted an attraction back.

A young girl jsut out of a relationship is usually clingy - us women know that - that in our late teens, early 20's we are finding out who we are, and alot of that is with men. As much as he doesn't see her being a problem and that not hiring her after her practicum isn't fair to her, I think he will be unintentionally leading her on - he can control it - he has the morals, but can she control her feelings? She admitted the attraction too.

Right now - that department is growing, he has other jobs to do for other departments, but the work they are doing is just him and her. They will be together 10-12 hours a day, albeit business - it just screams danger to me. And not on his part. He kept telling me she is the innocent party here, but she admitted feelings, that makes her not so innocent.

But as I said before - this is in H's hands and I respect his decision. If I am right about this, then he will handle it when the time comes, I trust him. I hope that I am wrong about where this may go (problems associated with it)

DS,

I got to thinking about something I read in a post of yours about this potential OW situation. So, I went back and read it again:

“The company he is in is growing fast and he has just opened a new division - she is his first recruit - doing free practicum work (she was doing another practicum, but left that one to do this one with the permission of the school. In that defense - where my H is, it is a HUGE opportunity for anyone in her shoes and will make her career.)

... As much as he doesn't see her being a problem and that not hiring her after her practicum isn't fair to her, I think he will be unintentionally leading her on - he can control it - he has the morals, but can she control her feelings? She admitted the attraction too.”

Now, I am not a lawyer, but I grew up with flocks of them. I’m almost the only non-lawyer in my family. I know how they think. So I pinged my sister and BIL – she is dean of students at a big Law School here in WA and he practices corporate law. Both came back with wordy explanations that summarize as:

He may have already passed the threshold of complaint in some EEO areas. e.g. if she is not hired after her practicum he is open to a suit by her claiming reverse bias. If she is hired, anyone else who is not hired will be more than welcome to protest because of their perceived personal relationship – and vociferously at that.

Shoot, it’s all right here in this thread in back and white! Opposing council would not even have to earn his lunch money with this one post alone. They will be able to point out there was nothing perceived about it at all.

I sure would hate for Sprint to add to his woes because of this. I feel for him. I think he will indeed stay out of her pants. But he needs to step farther back from the brink here, no matter how much better she helps him feel at the moment.

Sprint - If you read this, please do not blame DS for this potential problem. You have sown it all by yourself. This work thing is not her doing. If anything, she has been trying to figure out how to protect you from it on here.

A

I don't know her, and I don't know what she would do - I have to trust she is just person right?

I guess as much as I see DH trying to protect her because as he puts it - he CARES for her (wants to protect her more than me right now) but I guess I see the fact the he told her about the attraction as complicating things so much for her. If he cared, he should have kept the feelings to himself and told ME first and then get an action plan.

I just have this bad feeling around the whole thing, and hey maybe its just my paranoia, but I think that telling her just caused MAJOR complications for down the road, and not by anything he will do.

I think he may have created a potential mess by having her best interest in heart, and not mine, and not deliberately, and not because I am sitting here, but from her point of view and the whole working relationship thing. She is single, and even though he is married, she knows his relationship is on the rock. She will be the best friend she can be because she cares, without pushing him. I know because I have been there. (not with a married man, but supporting someone through a rough time with the hopes of that door being there when all is said and done)

-ds

Anyhow

I am not going to push the subject anymore.

I trust him and if this turns into a big mess (personal or work related), then we will handle it then.

I will just pray and hope that it all goes away, that this girl doesn't develope feelings any more than her care and attraction, and that it goes back to a working relationship - I trust that Sprint will ensure it is only a working relationship and not talk about personal matters anymore. I have to trust him, where we would be without trust?

I can't keep obsessing about this - one day is enough - tonight is a new night, tomorrow a new day, and we will take what comes our way.

It will be his mess, but I will always stand by him no matter what happens and IF it turns into a mess . Hopefully it won't.

-ds

I think you are well within reason to worry about lots of things related to H and this person. Ateh moment I am only focussing on some legal repercussion that could raise their ugly heads down the road. Sprint does not need these problems on top of what he is already dealing with.

That was very nice

H called home on his way home, and in our usual small chat I asked if he is working all weekend again. He said - no I cancelled.

I said oh that's nice - you can have a weekend off finally

and he said - no, i just think you are right, I don't need to be in the office weekends and off hours with her.

I said thankyou

He said your welcome.

I think he is understanding. I hope she does too. Anyways - here's to a good night - i am going to watch a movie tonight - hopefully he wants to join me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

-ds

It was a great night guys and I am so impressed with H.

He got hom, and he was very drained. He told me he had a talk with the girl.

They were working and she was sitting too close to him for comfort, he felt very nervous about it. She told him it looked like he had something to say.

So he said to her, look I don't think it is a good idea to see you socially anymore or for anything more than just the Monday-Friday work week. I told my wife about the fact that there was an attraction, and I am no longer comfortable with our relationship being the way it is. So I won't need you to work this weekend, and I will see you on Monday.

Now that isn't word for word, but it is along those lines

I guess she got really defensive and said - oh you miss understood, and you took things the wrong way, and then she got angry and gave him the snuff treatment the rest of the day.

He was upset - I think he really thought she was a friend and would understand that it was wrong and just be his friend.

He told me he needs to be home with his family. He said if he needs to work on a weekend, then HE needs to work on a weekend, there is no need to be working with employees.

Later we cuddled and I rubbed his back as he had naps - he slept most of the evening, he was so drained. He thanked me for the love and attention I was giving him, and I thanked him for letting me love him.

He said he hopes that God is on our side as he doesn't know how we are going to make it, but he wants to make it.

So I have my husband back again. I also figured out The timeline.

Things were going great until we got back from my parents on April 17th - the distance started on April 18th.

She e-mailed me which I forwarded to him on April 14th which was when he said they would never hire her. I know that she then was in during the week of 18-22 and I believe started on either Monday the 18th, or Monday the 25th. This is when he was SUPER distant.

i didn't discover her until Sunday, May 1. Weeks of not telling me.

And now, that their personal relationship is done, he is loving again, not so distant.

I believe his space was all about her - maybe he realized someone else could make him happy too, but also realized it wasn't what he wanted?

I am just so thrilled - I am no longer worried or concerned about her working there. I am not worried at all.

Anyways -thanks everyone for helping me get through this.

I told H last night that we will get through this at his pace - when he needs space, he needs space, when he needs love, he needs love- he's in the drivers seat. He smiled and said, lets no talk about recovery anymore, lets just recover - we do too much recovery talk. I agreed - I think we do too - we need to just be together and heal together.

Anyhow - It's a WONDERFUL new day <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

-ds

DS,

That's a great update.

It seems that something finally snapped inside your H's head and reminded him of things he already knew [as an MB member] but chose to disregard because of his feelings of resentment and sadness. I hope that his sojourn to the 'dark side' taught him some empathy as to what you experienced when you let your feelings cloud your better judgment and allowed yourself to have an affair.

DS I hope that your H realizes that even if he were to decide to divorce you, he can NEVER divorce himself from his negative feelings and that they will follow him for the rest of his life IF he allows them to. I also hope that he realizes that his choice to remain married to you is NOT because of weakness [as society often wrongly views BH who chose to remain married to their remorseful FWW] but because of the strength of his love for you. True love is NOT for wimps or cowards.

TMCM

Talk about ups and downs eh?

My husband told me the sweetest thing I have ever heard him say to me.

He called me into the bathroom where he was soaking in the tub and said

"I just had a thought. From the time I met you, until the time we started having some problems, and still now, I can't think of anyone else I would have rather been with, or rather be with now"

I told him that was the sweetest thing he has ever said to me. He said:

"I know we had some problems before the A, that we brushed aside that I do believe interefered. But we will fix those."

I looked at him and said - I am so sorry for all the pain I have caused you. He said:

"I know you are. But we will be better. We will be happy again"

I think maybe he needed these last few weeks alone

It feels great ( I don't expect all days to be like this - still know a rollercoaster is expected - but these up days are WONDERFUL!)

-ds

DS

been off the Forum except for 'driveby' visits to idiotville or the off respone for a week or so. You get that way, sometimes you need to be here other times you drift away.

I can relate to so much of what you are saying here. My H went through a similar period where he said I made him sick just touching him - I think I was too ashamed to even really post that here at the time... my feeling not reality of course.

For a number of weeks he would not talk, or touch ,, he even volunteered for another deployment to get away from me.
By then we were touching a bit, had SF which was ... well we had SF lets leave it at that.
I later found out while deployed he also took very extreme personal risks until one day a explosion in a building he was entering threw him naked and bleeding into the wall of another building - all he got was bruising and a few cuts.I always have figured 'someone' answered my prayers that day.
Guilt, a deep and abiding guilt still causes me great pain and sadness.
He doesn't know that I know this, thats for him to tell me one day I hope & pray. Hes not ready yet.
In the meantime I fell pregnant a few days as it turned out before he left .. first thing he asked me when he got back was 'Who's is it?" NOW THAT HURT. BAD But that is the result of the distrust I had built up.
He was and is a complex mix of hate and love for me. More a hate now of what I did than me so others here who talk to him assure me ...no details you understand they keep confidences as is right - so I have hope.

I tell you all this so you understand that our H are very hurt in a fundamental way. It effects the way they feel about themselves as "men', its something we women do generally not understand easily I firmly believe that.
Most men do not act as my H did - thank God, probably an occupational thing as well - but they do feel similar attacks on their manhood.
As it was explained to me.... they WANT us to consider them to be our knights in shining armour, when we turn way from them it cuts deeply.
Is he acting as mnay BS do,, I think so. Should you write your letter .. yes but take out the stuff about you .. right now he probably wont care much and all it will do is reinforce his belief its ok to get ' revenge'.
Keep to the basics, no pushing, ask for no decision, clearly express remorse, regret and love for him - expect him to refuse that love for now - assure him you will be there for him when hes ready - end with again being so sorry you hurt him. Most of that you've got .. just take out the feely & you stuff ... he'll not want to hear it now.

Long road DS but I'm hopeful. Got a baby due end of July and hes deployed again but I wont give in ever. Dont you either.

AW when you speak from your heart you move people.

You have such insight. I wish Squid would talk to you.

{{{AW}}}

and

{{{DS}}} too

Thanks Aussie,

Luckily, I wont have to send him a letter <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Right now I seem to have my husband back.

As he said late last night, he is still really hurting, he doesn't know what to do. He feels so unattractive and unwanted, like he isn't a catch. I said I am so sorry for putting him there so sorry for hurting him so deeply that he has not only lost faith in me, but in himself, but that he is a HUGE catch, and that as he was cuddling me earlier I was staring at him as I thought how lucky I was to have such a handsome husband! He says he wishes he could believe me, he wants to be here, and he loves me, but he feels so second rate.

I told him, he is first rate, and that my poor choices had nothing to do with his attractiveness and whether he was a catch - it had to do with me, not him.

I am so happy he his back and that we can keep going down recovery. I am getting more and more of the idea that he had quite a bit of feelings for this girl, and her rejecting on Friday when he told her he couldn't see her socially ever again, I think really threw him off.

Poor man.



I agree with you. I see more damage to who he is as a man than to our relationship, and it kills me to know that it is me that did it to him. I want him to know he is worth something, he is so amazingly handsome, and he is an unbelievable catch, and I am so lucky to even have a small chance with this amazing man again.

-ds