My wife is a school teacher, she's agreed to relocate to another building after this school year, but she was unable to find another position during the year. Most of my previous post recieved replies that the affair was still on, and it may be, but I know most of it has ended.

If you have any background dealing with co-worker affairs in a school setting, I'd appreciate your input. The school year is almost up, but it's very difficult her working with the OM.

Also, she's been very detached and isn't sure she wants to stay in the marriage.

Hi there Grove

I guess you've been following my threads too - it sounds like we are in a very similar position at a similar time. Maybe it's something about the pressure of being a teacher, and the support that they take from each other (that us non-teachers don't get?). Whatever, it is a bummer to be in this position isn't it.

My H is trying (but not all that hard, admittedly) to find a new job for next year - still have a couple of weeks left in the UK system, but it's not looking too hopeful. We've been working on his application letter together tonight - perhaps you can find a way to help your wife with the job search? You are lucky at least that your wife can move to a different building - my H and OW are in the same department, and have to share the same science staff room every day. I'm not doing too great about this either, but what choice do we really have?

My H was forced into discussing situation with head of department, and I have since exposed A to another teacher in the same dept who is friends with OW, although she is on maternity leave at the moment. Also exposed to various others - made me feel better! I think the A has all but ended, but continue to watch very closely (email, texts etc) and ask difficult questions!

I'm definitely coping a bit better this week (for anyone who saw my desperate posts at the end of last week) - saw doctor, off work for a week, and ADs. Not a route I would have chosen particularly, but I am taking the time out to look after ME, and this is helping me get some perspective.

I can't really offer any otehr advice on the situation - given that I'm just learning too, but if you want to compare stories at any point ...

Take care of yourself, and good luck

unhappy_badger

The problem is that she will likely stay detached until she withdraws from the OM, and that can't happen until contact ends.

Imagine sending a freshly sober drunk into a bar every day and expecting him to sit there and stare at a cold beer all day. He is told he can't touch it, though. As a result, he stays obsessed with the beer, it is all he can think of and it takes enormous self control not to grab the beer. Eventually, the inevitable weak moment hits and he grabs the beer and starts drinking again. This happens over and over again as long as he continues to go into the bar.

That is exactly how it is with your wife. She will stay obsessed with the OM and will likely take another drink in a weak moment. She can't start to ever withdraw until contact ends. This is why Harley recommends quitting one's job or moving across the country, if necessary, in order to end contact. He is ADAMANT about it.

I agree, but my wife's profession doesn't really allow for her to quit during the middle of the school year. While I'd love for her to offer to quit, I do believe it might be unreasonable to demand she quit.

I'm reasonably sure the affair is over, i'm not reasonable sure that they haven't had any contact. My wife did call today to tell me she saw him at a staff meeting, but that they didn't make contact. She could have hidden this, so I'm "happy" that she shared this information with me.

I agree and have used the alcoholic analogy with her. Obviously she didn't like it. If the affair is still going on, i'm a bigger sucker than I thought I was. The gut feeling I had during the affair is gone. Now I'm just trying to decide if we can or should save marriage. I still harbor a great deal of resentment, but I'm trying to work through that and decide what is best for both of us.

Still, the teacher situation offers a different set of problems. Obviously I can't just stop in to check on her, and I know that they met during certain times of the day that I can't check in on. The School Administration told me that there is nothing they can do to help as long as it's not out in the open and it doesn't effect the kids. She just needs to apply for another job in another building at the end of the year.

I was told that there might be some additional options that another "poster" knew of, but I never heard back from her.

I'm stuck. The wife was in a good mood tonight, but that could change tomorrow (as well as my own mood). This is just a bad situation and it's hard to figure out what you should and shouldn't do.

unhappy_badger

Our situation is a little different, but it's nice to know there is someone else out there in a similar situation. I guess that's what this board is all about.

I'm stuck and I'm not sure if I'm messing up or if my wife is being a jerk.

Hi, grove.

You would be well advised to heed MelodyLane's advice. Your wife needs to be somewhere else - anywhere else, away from the other man. Until that happens, you can't start recovery of your marriage, and the repeated exposure may seal the fate of your marriage in a way that you are not currently anticipating.

Quote:
==========================
The gut feeling I had during the affair is gone.
==========================

If you were a woman, I would give your 'gut feeling' an 87% probability of being correct. As a man, I give it a 20% probability. In practice, male spouses are usually the last to know, and suffer from denial the longest.

I hope you will reconsider the advice you have been given.

All the best,
Gimble

Well, seeing him *IS* contact, that is the point. Being honest about something bad does not make it good. Everytime they see each other is contact that prevents her from ever withdrawing from him. A teacher's job is no different than any other job, it can be quit just like any other job and carries the exact same set of problems.

grovetuck, unless you make it clear to her what your boundaries are, she won't know and she won't respect them. This is not an area that you want to be wobbly on, lest you will pay dearly for years on end living on pins and needles.

This is one area that Harley is adamant about, for good reason, that they should NEVER EVER be in contact again even if it means moving across the country. To do otherwise is to completely prevent recovery and die a death of a thousand cuts. You will NEVER recover from this affair as long as they are still in contact.

grovetuck, below is an article by Dr Harley about continued contact after an affair that you should read. It is important to understand that every time she is in contact with him [and that can include seeing him across a room or seeing him drive into the parking lot] puts her back to day 1 of recovery, assuming she ever got past day 1. And every time she sees him, puts YOU back to day 1 of recovery. It is impossible to recover this way and you will be only be setting yourself up to die a death of a thousand cuts with this never ending contact and your resulting never ending fear and anxiety.

Do you really want to live a life where you have to worry every day that she will relapse? And you only have the word of a liar that it didn't happen. I just can't even imagine why anyone would choose such a fate.

Wouldn't it be easier - and better for your marriage - to negotiate some tough boundaries NOW rather than doom yourself to this hell? Avoiding conflict now just damns you to years of more conflict. Why not take the tough stance now before your marriage and your sanity is destroyed, when you know you will have to address this eventually anyway? This is the kind of problem that is not going to go away unless managed. Sweeping it under the rug for the sake of some false peace comes at a very high price.

A good article on the importance of no contact by Dr Harley:

Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through hell. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

article in its entirety:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

Unfortunately I understand the premise and need for no contact, but my wife and our counselor have both said that I was being unreasonable. She has said that she will attempt to find another job at the end of the school year (which is now three weeks away). Of course this is causing me endless anxiety, I've told her this and she doesn't get it. She says it's over and I have nothing to worry about. She's minimized the affair to just phone calls (over 140 in one month) and one date. She claims there was no sex, so it wasn't an affair.

As for plan b, my attorney has advised me to not leave the home, and she refuses to leave also. We have a three year old, and I don't want to risk losing shared parenting. If I leave I could end up with just visitation. Of course that's if we do get divorced.

The question I am stuck with, is do I want to divorce her. I still love her, but I just don't trust her right now. She doesn't seem to know what she wants to do right now. The OM still lives with someone, but has made contact with a friend of my wife's. They claim it was because he thought I was "stalking' him. Which I wasn't, I was just making unannounced visits to the school at the end of the day. He passed me a couple times, I didn't say anything. I don't really believe that was the reason for the calls, but that's what they are saying.

A big problem with my getting over the affair and working on the marriage is the fact my wife was diagnosed with Genital Warts in September. It's a strange STD that can have reoccurrences years after the initial infection. She claims I'm the only one who could have given it to her since she has never had sex with anyone other than me in her life. It's hard to swallow, since 75 percent of occurrences/breakouts are from a recent (3 to 6 months) exposure. Could I have contacted it during my college days, absolutely, but the odds of her having an occurrence at the same time she is having an affair seem to be highly unlikely. The fact she would blame me and refuse to tell the truth is very painful.

I do love my wife and I want to believe her. When we talked about my putting language in the divorce papers saying our daughter wouldn't have contact with the OM for 90 days after the divorce, my wife said that wasn't a big deal because he isn't in her life anymore. She thought it was kind of wierd, but she wouldn't have a problem with me doing that. She actually said she understood why I would feel that way.

We are heading to a marriage retreat next weekend. Hopefully we can reconnect and start developing somekind of plan.

It's not all bad, she does call me twice a day while at work to let me know how things are going.

grovetuck, I think it is real easy for your wife to dismiss all this since she is not the one who has been damaged. Of course it is not "unreasonable" to expect that she leave her job in order to avoid contact. It is unreasonable to expect that she should stay there and thereby prevent any hope of recovery for your marriage. It is "unreasonable" to have an affair. She, and the counselor, are simply putting her career before your marriage. That ain't "reasonable," my friend.

And since you are the one who is damaged, it is up to you to protect your interests. She won't do that for you. She wants to get off scot free with as little as discomfort as possible. And she will do so if allowed.

What I would suggest doing is going to a good counselor. Your counselor is worthless if he doesn't understand that there is no hope of recovery as long as contact persists. Dr. Harley specializes in infidelity and is an extremely successful MC. Most counselors do not understand the dynamics of infidelity, and it sounds like your C falls into this category. Instead of wasting your time with a C who is not going to help your marriage, I would suggest that you consider calling Steve Harley. He is an outstanding counselor that can give you a plan for recovery. He would be worth every penny.

I don't know much about STD's but that sure does sound suspicious to me. Have you been tested yourself?

grovetuckyohio,
Sorry you find yourself a member of this club. My husband is also a teacher who had an affair with another teacher. Just from my observation, I think that teachers are in an environment that promotes a pseudo-family atmosphere where people tend to let their guards down with each other. True of many of the "helping" occupations. It seems when they work with kids every day some of that rubs off on them. There is an immaturity factor that may not be as noticable in other professions. The kids are all running around with their hormones raging and I don't think that helps the atmosphere either. The teachers get together and discuss "their kids" and form intimate pseudo-parent relationships with each other and that can open the door to more sharing of their lives with each other.

It is hard dealing with the fact that she needs to find a job during a certain time of year, especially when you are going through these hard times but it is essential for healing. It adds another trauma on top of the one you are currrently experiencing but the trauma of facing another year of contact is a trauma in itself and will delay healing.

Once the affair is revealed the WS get very good at covering their tracks. From reading your posts it sounds like you are just at the beginning of things. These are extremely hard times. Your wife needs to understand why she wanted someone outside of your relationship. Good counseling is very helpful. You need to redefine your relationship and expectations and lay them on the table. The affair has to be over before recovery can have a chance. When my husband was still denying the extent of his involvement we were in counseling and we seemed to be stuck. He wasn't being honest with himself or the counselor or me. This was very frustrating because he acted like he wanted the marriage but what he really wanted was both relationships. There was a definite noticible difference when there was finally no contact with the OW. He became open and willing to deal with the issues in a non-defensive way. He was much more empathetic to my feelings and the harm he had done to our relationship.

It's such a shock to your sense of reality when the person you thought you knew isn't that person after all and they are capable of such cruelty to you, the person they promised to love. When my husband read the dictionary definition of "love" he realized that what he called love had really nothing to do with the actual meaning of the word. They have a lot of growing up to do. Hang in there....-render

Thanks render and melodylane.

I took my wife to work today early. She has an overnight field trip. Normally I'd think this was a bad idea, but I think we could use a little time away from each other. The OM is not going, he teaches another grade. So my concern about her seeing him is gone at least.

What does MB say about informing co-workers about the affair. I read Dr Harley's book, but I can't seem to find who or how to inform co-workers. She obviously thinks it's a bad idea and I really don't know her co-workers well enough to talk to any of them privately. It would be nice to have someone there that is helping to keep her on the right track and also "keeping an eye on things", but I just don't have anyone there that I can go to.

I agree about the teachers behaving like their students and developing parent-like bonds. I've seen a number of affairs among teachers at my wife's school, and even talked to my wife about this. I think they actually start to act like their students.

We had a big fight today about her finding another job. She said that she wasn't going to take a job she didn't want. I told her that I wouldn't be able to stay married to her if she didn't find another job. She said that was unreasonable and that I was trying to control her. She likes her job and she doesn't want to have to start over again. She thinks I'm just threatening her with divorce. I'm not, I'm trying to explain to her that there is no way that I could remain in the relationship if she is seeing the OM daily. It's just too much of a risk and it causing me to much anxiety and concern.

She cried and said that she's miserable and that she doesn't see this ever getting better with me. She cried last night too, saying how badly she felt that she hurt me so badly and that I "deserve" someone better than her.

I still love her, but I'm getting closer to the conclusion that my marriage is probably over. We'll see, maybe it just has to get worse before it will get better.

grovetuck, that's ok, at least you have given her your boundaries. Just stick with it and don't back down. Tell her she is right, things will never get better until she ends contact with the OM because you will never get better until that happens. You cannot recover. Your marriage cannot recover. She seems to want to just do nothing and move on like nothing happened. That is absolutely unreasonable. Her marriage is on the floor bleeding and she doesn't want to be inconvenienced with first aide; she wants to pretend it's not wounded. "Just shut up and quit bleeding; you are annoying me," grovetuck.

It is unreasonable for her to stay in the same job with the OM. It is unreasonable for her to expect you to live like that. She needs to understand that your marriage will never recover like this. Just keep telling her that you can't stay married unless your marriage is protected, and it is at risk with her seeing the OM every day. It is unreasonable for her to think she can continue to hurt you and your marriage like this and do nothing to repair the damage. She seems to think she is entitled to no consequences.

I wouldn't tell her co-workers, they will just gossip about her. I would persist until she understands that your marriage will not recover unless she leaves the job. Don't even think of settling for less, grovetuck. Your marriage depends on it.

The short answer to your topic title question, "any advise on affairs among teachers"? is very easy.

Inform their bosses - right after you inform the spouse of the OP, if he/she is married. Ya gotta have hard evidence to go to the school management. Circumstantial will do in a pinch to go to the other spouse.


So what else has this "counselor" told you?

Okay, as a teacher and a FWS I've got to chime in here.

I was involved in a brief affair with a coworker, during the month of May in 2002. Then after less than 1 month it was discovered, my H demanded a separation, and we separated. I only continued further friendly, social contact (no intimacy) with the OM until the end of June (end of the school year). When I returned for the next school year in September, I had vowed to have no contact with OM that wasn't necessary. I successfully pulled that off for an entire school year - the only contact was due to staff meetings and forced cordial conduct in front of other staff members (no more than hello, how are you). I shut OM out of my world, desperate to save my marriage, also wanting him to save his own for that matter. (Little did I know that while I was doing all I could to prove my undying love to my H, he was happily seeing a coworker of his....) Anyways, when the internal job ads for transfers to other schools started appearing in the spring, I emailed all of the ones of interest to OM to him. He was in a much better position to change schools due to his subject area, and actually had previously expressed a desire to move, so it was a relief when he found another job in another school.

As for my H's coworker, it would appear God or karma stepped in, she LOST her job due to a lack of funding in their school, and had to get a job in another district all together! That I am thankful for, so I don't even have to run into her at professional events in the district. However, the sad truth is, they had a relationship off and on from early on in our separation (summer 2002) until December of this year (2004) (when she and I began emailing each other, and both figured out he'd been cheating on me with her and vice versa). But, that's not the focus of this post....sorry for getting off topic!

There are some things the non-teachers on this board seem not to be aware of about teaching:

1. You can NOT leave your job mid-year, unless it is for a medical leave or you plan to resign completely, and leave your school district altogether, throwing a permanent contract out the window (something that takes up to 3 years to earn in some districts). You then would have to reapply like a new applicant for a new job in the fall.

2. The only way to change jobs is to change schools when the school year ends and starts again. Most districts have opportunities to apply to change schools in the spring.

In my opinion it is unreasonable to continue to demand that this person's spouse leave their job. They seem to be making an effort at as much NC as they can given the situation. So long as they seek a new job for next year (and do so now, since it's spring and this is the time to do it), I would be satisfied.

There's my 2 cents worth!

Jen

I missed this piece of your post before my earlier reply.

Based on your MB name, you live in Ohio?

Can you narrow that down to a specific school jurisdiction? That way, any MBers with kids there can inquire with the school administration exactly what threshold of "secret" behavior of their teachers they deem threatening or the school. Drug use not out in the open? Child pornography not out in the open? Misuse of school resources not out in the open?

You'll be doing them a big favor.

Jen - a teacher's job is no different than any other jobs in this regard. There are a LOT of jobs that are not easy to up and relocate. It's rare that it's not a HUGE hardship and costly. It comes down to a measure of risk in continued contact vs the value of the marriage. Can job change be avoided? - of course. Is there a risk of continuation of the affair in that case? - of course. Is there no guarantee that an affair might continue EVEN WITH a job change? - of course, too. Job changes are merely a level of protection for a proven affair-conducive environment.

WAT

Jen, I don't see anything different here between a teacher's job and a normal job. A person is not a slave to a job just because they are a teacher. In a free country, they can leave at any time. It's not like she couldn't go work in JC Penney's in the meantime while she applies to another school for the next season. I think what this WS wants, are only solutions that require absolutely NO SACRIFICE on her part; otherwise it is "unreasonable." I disagree.

What is "unreasonable" is expecting her victim to make ALL of the sacrifices to acommodate her. This has nothing to do with being "reasonable," she simply doesn't want to be inconvenienced. How cute.

Grovetruck, please don't relax your boundaries on this or allow anyone to convince you that you are the one being unreasonable here. This is a boundary that I would not waffle on, otherwise you will pay dearly, with any and all peace of mind and very possibly your marriage.

I would print up the article by Dr Harley, along with his credentials and take it to your "MC." Tell them that one of the foremost marriage counselors in the US says that there is nothing "unreasonable" about expecting no contact even if it means moving to another state. Tell them that you fully understand there will no recovery here unless she leaves that job and that is what you need in order to recover. Don't let anyone try to tell you otherwise.

Truthfully I don't know what to say. I appreciate everyone's input and it's given me a lot to think about. She's not going to quit her job, and after three months of her working there and only 3 weeks left before the school year, even I think it'd be stupid to quit now. It's driving me crazy and it might very well ruin any hope we have to save our marriage, but this is the cards I've been dealt.

I have to decide if I can stay or if I should move on. To add insult to the injury, she doesn't know if she wants to stay married. So we're just hanging on, and neither of us sees much of a light at the end of this tunnel.

I think we're waiting on a miracle or some kind of sign that it's going to work out. Most likely that just isn't going to happen.

I didn't ask for this and I didn't deserve this, but this is what life has dealt me. I don't like being a victim and it seems like the only way to escape that feeling is to say, NO MORE.

grovetuck, have you considered giving Steve Harley a call? He is a superb MC that specializes in infidelity. I think there probably is hope here, but unless certain boundaries are set, recovery will be very hard, if not impossible. SH could assess your situation and even talk to your W. I think he would be much more effective than your current MC, who seems to not understand the dynamics of infidelity.

And I agree that she shouldn't leave her job NOW with only 3 weeks remaining, but she should not return in the fall. There are other jobs out there.

gt, I just went back and read several of your posts and I have to ask you. Do you think that the affair has really ended? Your W exhibits all the behavior of WS who is very much entrenched in an active affair; ie: she shows absolutely no remorse and is looking for ammunition against you. It appears she feels entitled to do what she wants to do, no matter how wreckless and destructive it is to you. Am I reading this right?