I have two questions:

I feel so detached from Patriot the majority of the time. This saddens me, because he is trying hard, the best I can see. Basically, if I ask him for anything - I get it. Sometimes he is kind of slow to deliver.

He even gives me some things that I don't have to ask for. Is it ME? What is wrong with me? Why is it that when I look at him, I just don't feel the way I used to feel? This scares me. What if I don't ever get it back? If I don't - will he eventually give up? If I don't, life ahead looks very long and lonely.

Every once in a blue moon, I feel connected to him (maybe two or three times since D-Day). That really isn't enough. I don't want to leave, but I do wish this still felt like love. Is this normal??? If so, how do you get past it?

I would appreciate feedback from anyone on this subject.

frozen, an affair is the greatest betrayal a spouse can commit, so you should feel very detached now. That is the inevitable result. But as he rebuilds trust and your wounds heal, you will grow closer to him over time.

I pretty much felt revulsion alternated with rage towards my H for quite some time. It took me months to feel anything for my H again, because my love for him was connected to my level of respect for him. When I found out about his affair, all of my respect for him went into the toilet so I felt no good feelings for some time. As time went on, though, he rebuilt that respect by acting in a trustworthy, respectful way. As trust grew and the sting of the betrayal wore off, we grew closer and my feelings for him grew.

So please don't give up and don't despair, it will come in time if you just give it a chance. You have a real good guy there who seems to be trying very hard. Just have some patience.

Hi, frozen.

I agree with MelodyLane. Proper respect for each other sets up an environment where love can safely flourish.

I would also suggest that you engage him. What I mean by that is rather than sitting and looking at him, waiting on a feeling; act on proper choices, and don't worry particularly about how you feel. It will take your brain chemistry a while to catch up, but it will get there.

God bless,
Gimble

Okay, guys - I hear you.

I in no way meant that I will ever give up on my marriage, and for now, I will have faith that someday some sort of feeling, on my part, will return.

Could it possibly mean that there is something I need that he is not giving me? I don't want to try to look for something to be wrong - but we still haven't discussed any details. Would that help? He has talked a lot about doing this lately, but there hasn't seemed to be a proper time (if there is such a thing). Also, we haven't really continued to study together.

This is not entirely his fault. It has been awhile since I articulated a desire to do that with him. Due, in part, to the fact that sometimes I get so sick of focusing on it.

Sometimes it seems as though we both just want things to be normal, so we resume life as if they are. That is when I feel the most empty, because things are not really normal.

I wonder if we are both mentally trying to sweep it under the rug. What is it, exactly, that we are supposed to be doing at this point in Recovery?

Also, he started school recently. He is going back to college to obtain his Master's degree. While I am very proud of him, I do miss the time together. We didn't seem to fit in the 15 hours that MB suggests before, and now that time together has been further reduced.

Melody - At the risk of continuing to sound impatient, how long did it take?

Gimble - I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "act on proper choices".

Why r u punishing your H and yourself? R U afraid t/b happy?

L.

Orchid,

Not at all!!!! I'm dying for it, actually.

Well don't be dying t/b happy. Just don't worry, be happy. Then maybe you are trying too hard? Let's get u 2 balanced.

For me as a BS and primary giver, what I had to put in our M was less work. What the Xws had t/d was more work. Together we found a better balancing point. Oh yea, he does more work now but is less grumpy and definitely more appreciative. I get a small break and appreciate the minor savings. Still have a ways to go but headed in the right direction. The solution was not logical to the giver mind but it does work.

So instead of brainstorming yourself into a migraine, howz about being a bit more imaginative and allowing both of your to participate in your recovery on more equal level.

Do little things for each other. Find new interests and create better memories. I heard a song about a man who was dying yet he was learning to live and encouraged others t/d the same. It was an intersting concept that made me stop and think (but not too hard). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

I really don't think that I have been trying TOO hard. I have been just kind of sitting back, doing the things I think I am supposed to be doing...and waiting. However, I will be on guard against the things you mentioned.

He is learning to be quite the Giver. I am also learning how to do a little taking. It's not completely comfortable for me to take, but I don't allow myself to feel guilty for it and look at it more as allowing him the opportunity to see how wonderful giving feels.

I guess I am just saddened by the thought that I may never look at him the same way, and that the feelings I had for him may never return. He calls it "Giddy Girl". I think both of us miss Giddy Girl. She has only shown her face once since D-Day.

I care for him deeply, and I know that I do love him. I guess I just feel I am lacking enthusiasm and missing the feelings of romantic love that I used to feel for him, and I'm wondering if that will ever return.

frozen, for me it took about a year to feel anything for him again, however, your situation is different from mine. Your H is an active participant in the recovery of your marriage. Mine wasn't. Mine even withheld some key facts and it took me a year to get the whole story - a HUGE LOVEBUSTER on his part that kept me perpetually pissed off for months. So, don't go by me, if I were a guessing person, I would say that your feelings will come back much sooner than mine did.

Melody,

Patriot has withheld some facts, also. He has not only withheld information, he has outright lied about a lot of it and some of the lies he has never corrected.

I, like you, have been pretty pissed about this. It has only been recently that I let go of that anger. I think because perhaps it has been long enough that my pain has somehwat numbed and I don't push the issue anymore out of dread of ripping that scab open.

I hope that you are right. I did seem to be ahead of schedule - the infamous "anger stage" hit me at about 5 months (well, 1-5 really).

We are coming up on the 6-month anniversary of D-Day. I actually look forward to the 1-year anniversary. Unless there is something I don't know, that suddenly hits you at that 1-year mark, it seems to me like it would be something to celebrate - a whole year of that crap behind me! I am hoping we can go on a cruise.

I will have faith, though, in the knowledge of your experience...and continue to work, and WAIT!

Thank you so much,

Froz

((HUGS))

You sound like my H. Wanting to stay, but wanting so much space. I can relate to Patriot more than I can you - that's tough.

I wish I could give you some advice, but as you can see - the fine folk here have lotsa good advice.

I hope both you and my H figure it out one day, and I am willing to bet Patriot, like me, won't be going anywhere and will hang in there until you are ready.

-ds

DS,

You are such a nice person.

I must admit, I'm a little envious of you...I wish I could relate to Patriot! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I sure have appreciated your insight into his FWS mind.


I don't want to figure it out, I want someone to just TELL ME! I never was any good at story problems.

e.g. If a WS has an affair at 100 mph, for 18 months, how many months will it take his BS and his marriage to recover and at what rate will it happen?

I'm stumped already. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Frozen, I wouldn't call us "recovered" yet, so maybe I shouldn't be responding. However, I would say we are on the recovering path. We are 15 months into this journey and I would caution you to not have any expectations about how you will feel at the year mark. For some it might be a great cause for celebration that they made it to a year. For me approaching the year mark triggered the HE$$ out of me. Took me totally by surprise. It was like I was back to where I was the previous year, remembering the pain I felt before d-day even hit.

What stands out to me is that you have not discussed any details. HINY over in Recovery has a thread about just that. Check it out. I'm thinking of the thread about Jerry and Mulberry that you recommended we read. Why do you think so many of us BSs were touched by that thread? I wonder if it's because the A can't be swept under the rug. It is a highly traumatic experience that needs to be dealt with. Maybe you are at the point that you need to begin talking about what occurred. Hopefully when you both can talk about it you will begin to feel closer and those feelings will return. I look at it this way. For my H's 9 month A I was cut out of his life. He experienced a whole other life with another person. I have the need to know everything that occurred, maybe more than most BSs, so there are no more secrets between them. Another reason for discussing the A is to find out, in Steve Harley's words, how the FWS failed to protect his/her weaknesses. If you both don't talk about it, how will you know what went wrong, and how will you feel protected? Good luck! CV

HI THIS HARD FOR ME TO WRITE. I HAVE BEEN MARRIED FOR 35 YEARS AND THE WEEK BEFORE OUR 34 ANNIVERARY I FOUND CONDOMS AND JELL IN MY HUSBAND VAN. WE GOT INTO A FIGHT ABOUT IT. HE SAID THAT HE WAS HAVING TROUBLE WITH GETTING A ERECTION AND USING THEM ON HIMSELF. HE SAID THAT HE WASN'T HAVING A
AFFAIR AND THERE WAS NO ONE ELSE. I KNEW THAT HE WAS HAVING TROUBLE WITH HIS ERECTION. THE THING THAT GOT ME WAS HE HATES CONDOMS AND HAS NEVER USED THEM. HE ALSO YELLED AT ME FOR SPYING ON HIM WHEN I FOUND THE CONDOMS. I NEVER WAS SO HURT IN MY LIFE. I SAID AFTER A FEW WEEKS OF FIGHTING THAT I BELEIVED HIM,BUT I DIDN'T. THING GOT BAD, I CRIED ALL THE TIME AND LOST 60LBS. NO SLEEP. WORRY CRY AND SO ON.HURT SO BAD STILL DO. I STARTED TO LISTEN TO HIS CELL PHONE MESSAGES. HE FOUND OUT I WAS DOING THIS AND CHANGED THE CODE. I ASKED HIM WHY HE GHANGED THE CODE. HE SAID BECAUSE HE NEED PRIVATE TIME TO HIMSELF. NEVER NEED THIS BEFORE IN 35 YEARS. HE LIE TO ME ABOUT PEOPLE ON THE CELL THAT WOULD CALL HIM. THEY WERE ALWAYS GUYS,FOR A WHILE I WAS THINKING HE WAS GAY.THAT TURNED OUT TO BE WRONG. I STARTED TO PUT A TAPE RECORDER IN THIS VAN WHEN HE WENT TO WORK. LEARNED A LOT THING I DIDN'T WANT TO. WELL I TOLD HIM THAT I KNEW HE WAS HAVING AFFAIR . HE TOLD ME THAT WHAT I HEARED ON THE TAPES HAS ONLY HIMSELF TALKING TO HIMSELF. THERE IS NO ONE ELSE. WAS I GOING CRAZY? THEN HE STARTED ELLING ME I WAS CRAZY OVER AND OVER. I NEEDED HELP HE WOULD SAY. SO I WENT TO COUNSELOR. WEEKS AND WEEKS AT ONE POINT MY COUNSELOR WANTED TO PLACE ME IN THE HOSPITAL.ALL I COULD TO WAS CRY. THINGS GOT A LITTLE BETTER FROM GOING TO THE COUNSELOR. MY HUSBAND HAD GONE THE FRIST TIME WITH ME. THE FORTH VISIT I ASK MY COUNSELOR IF MY HUSBAND SHOULD COME THE NEXT TIME. HE TOLD ME NO THAT WHAT HE SAW THE FRIST VISIT LED HIM TO BELEIVE THAT HE WOULD NOT TELL HIM THE TRUTH. HE WAS HERE TO HELP ME . HE TOLD ME TO SEE A LAWYER AND FIND OUT WHAT MY RIGHTS WERE. WELL EVERY WEEK SOMETHING NEW WOULD HAPPEN. I GOT OUR CREDIT REPORT AND A SECOND ADDRESS WAS ON IT. I DON'T KNOW THIS ADDRESS. SO WENT ON COMPUTER AND FOUND OUT IT WAS APPT.BUILDING WITH FOUR UNITS. GOT LISTING OF PEOPLE INTHE BUILDING THAT HAD LIVED THERE AND WERE LIVING THERE. I GOT NAMES AND PHONE NUMBERS AND DATES OF BIRTH,ECTS. I STARTED TO GET PHONE CALLS AT HOME AND THE PERSON WOULD HANG UP ON ME. I STAR 69 AND ALWAYS THE SAME UNLISTED NUMBER. THEN ONE DAY IT HAPPEN AND SAME UNLISTED NUMBER IN AN HOUR THE PHONE RANG SAME HANG UP ON ME . I STARED 69 AND GOT A PHONE NUMBER . I COULDN'T BELEIVE IT. DIDN'T KNOW NUMBER . I GOT THINK ABOUT THE PEOPLE IN THE APPT, BUILDING AND GOT THE LIST I HAD SURE ENOUGH THE NUMBER WAS THERE.PERSON NAME AND AGE. IT WAS A WOMAN. WENT AND CHEEKED OUT HUSBAND PHONE HE HAD THE NUMBER DAILED FROM HIS PHONE. WEEKS WENT BY DID NOTHING. WENT TO ADDRESS ONCE AND FOUND OUT THAT SAID PERSON HAD MOVED. I THINK BACK AND THAT WAS A LIE. ASK HUSBAND FINALLY ABOUT ALL THIS SAID THIS HE HAD NO IDEA WHO PERSON WAS AND NO IDEA WHY ADDRESS IS ON CREDIT REPORT AND SAID THAT HE WAS RACKING HIS BRAIN TO THINK IF HE LENT HIS PHONE TO ANYONE TO USE. I CALLED THIS NUMBER AND ASK HER TO CALL ME. SHE DIDN'T BUT A BOYFRIEND DID. SAID HE WAS HER BOYFRIEND AND WANTED TO KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON SO I TOLD HIM. WE TALKED A WHILE I ASK TO TALK TO HER HE SAID SHE NOT A PHONE PERSON. THEN HE SAID THAT MAYBE IT WAS JUST HER MAKING A WRONG NUMBER WHEN SHE CALLED MY HOUSE. THEN HE SAID THAT IF I WERE YOU I WOULD BELEIVE MY HUSBAND .I STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK OF THIS AT ALL. MONTHS PASSED AND THING DID GET BETTER . THATS THE WAY IT GOES THEN THERE WAS A MESSAGE ON HIS CELL AGAIN NO ONE TALKED BUT NUMBER IS ON MESSAGE AND HE DAILED IT FROM PHONE.NOT THE SAME NUMBER AS BEFORE SO I CALLED NUMBER PERSON PICKED UP PHONE BUT DIDN'T SAY A WORD I SAID HELLO HUNG UP ON ME. I CALLED BACK SAME AGAIN. I CALLED AGAIN BUSY BUSY BUSY. THERE A LOT OF OTHER THING THAT HAVE HAPPEN THIS IS TO LONG ANYWAYS. HE IS NEVER GOING TO TELL ME THE TRUTH. I HAVE TRIED A LOT OF THINGS WRITTING LOVE NOTES TO HIM AND BUYING HIM THINGS FOR NO REASON. IAM ALWAYS THERE FOR HIM IN OUR 35 YEARS . HE SAY JUMP I SAY HOW HIGH. I GET HIM HIS BREAKFAST AND DINNERS AND DO WHAT EVER I CAN FOR HIM. I TELL HIM I LOVE HIM AND HE TELLS ME HE LOVE ME AT LEAST 6 TIMES A DAY. THE SEX IS GREAT AND THEN THERE IS THIS PERSON . ITS LIKE HAVING 3 OF US IN THE MARRIAGE. THE DARK CLOUD AS I CALL HER ALWAYS THERE. WHAT DO I DO WHEN SOMEONE WILL NOT TELL YOU IF THEY ARE OR ARE NOT HAVING AFFAIR? THE LIES ARE THE WORST. THE HURT I FEEL AT TIMES IS WELL I JUST CAN'T FIND THE RIGHT WORDS. BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HURT AND LIES AND NOT TELLING THE TRUTH IS KILLING ME DAY BY DAY. IF YOU OR ANYONE CAN HELP ME UNDERSTAND THIS .HELP PANSY

Pansy,

I'm going to copy and paste your post and start a thread for you. I hope that will get it some more traffic so you can get some good feedback from the general population.

There are many here who have experienced the pain you're in, and similar circumstances, as well.

I am so sorry that you are in this situation. I hope that you find some peace, and I KNOW that you will find help and comfort here at MB.

Frozen

CV,

I will heed your warning and have NO expectations regarding the 1-year mark. Thanks for the "heads up".

Are you suggesting I take my own advice regarding the Mulberry thread I posted? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I am willing. I'm just waiting for my FWH to decide it's time. We don't have a "Jerry" to prod him, and I feel very strongly about not being his prodder. Our MC seems to take a much softer focus...I don't think she has much experience with infidelity. Sometimes I actually think she learns more from us (when we talk about MB principles, and things we've learned here), than we do from her!!! But, Patriot really likes the fact that she is a Christian counselor. I like that aspect also, so we have POJA'd to give her a few more tries.

As you suggested, I do have hopes that discussing details will tear down some of the walls, but by the same token, I fear that it won't.

Good luck to you, as well. It sounds as though you are making excellent progress!

Thanks for your response,

Frozen

FROZEN THANKS FOR SAYING THAT YOU CARE ABOUT MY PAIN. I GUESS I NEED SOMEONE TO TALK TO AND TO CARE. I FEEL LOST AND ALONE. THANKS AGAIN ALWAYS PANSY

Pansy,

I DO care about your pain. I know it must be enormous. Allow yourself to feel it, but I hope you don't dwell on it for too long. Sometimes dwelling in it can be very counter-productive. Most importantly, take care of yourself.

I will bump your thread again, in hopes that you get some responses.

Froz

Hi, Frozen.

Quote:
===============================
Gimble - I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "act on proper choices".
===============================

A proper choice is when either one or both of you choose an action that furthers recovery or enhances your relationship. If Patriot makes a 'proper choice', instead of wondering where your feelings are and why you aren't experiencing them, you react to the action in a way that demonstrates approval, whether you feel like it or not.

If you both do that, your brains will eventually catch up. It will also take care of that 'walking on eggshells' atmosphere, in a very practical way. Pretty soon, you both find yourselves doing things for each other, even the hard things, because you look forward to making each other happy, even when the results aren't immediate.

I am excited for you and Patriot, Frozen. Think about this, isn't it fun to be able to work this stuff out, and to have big time hopes for the future? I bet you two have talked about what you want to do when you get close to retirement. What kind of plans have you made, or what kind of scenario are both of you wishing for?

All the best,
Gimble

Retirement!!!!! Gimble, I'm only 35!!!!


Seriously, no...we haven't talked about it at all. I guess we hadn't really thought past when the kids move out. Basically, when the kids move out - our plan is to run around the house naked and rejoice in the fact that my daughter's dog is gone!

Thanks for the clarification regarding 'proper choices'. I understand what you mean. I can't speak for Patriot, but that is pretty much what I have been doing. It has only been recently that I've started wondering where the feelings are. After hearing yours and Melody's responses, I will let that go for awhile.

As far as it being fun working this stuff out...NO, I can't really say that it is fun. It feels joyless (if I were focusing on feelings, which I'm not). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />