Oh, he is not living at home, Mimi, because I caught him lying to me a few weeks ago about his interactions with coworkers, esp. female. He was flirting and yipping it up at work and then telling me what a bad day it was and that he never talked to anyone and how depressed he was. And he was happy at work and come home and be depressed and cranky with me and kids, consistently for awhile.

I am trying to add links to my story. How do I do this?

I can copy the url into this post. Will that work? This is the one about when H moved out (I made him leave).

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post2695078

Woohoo, it worked!

ok so now...Next recording (really the first)...

He was getting into the car as he was talking... it was very audible at first and then off and on, depending on how fast he was going and stuff. ___ mean I am not 100% sure (can't hear or make it out) about that particular word or phrase.
"This morning, I got up, made a pot of coffee, fed the horses, took the garbage out, took a shower, folded a load of laundry, got ready for work, shocked the pool, unplugged the lights. [pause] "Well, I pay for these ___ ______...." then it sounds like "don't even want to be there" or "the only one who wants to be in there" (the pool?)..."is my son". ___ _____ .... "Make a freindship out of your ___ and the horsegirl". [pause]" ___be ___friend, but I'm not gonna love ___ forever, ya' know?!". Here a woman's voice says "Riiight." [Long pause and garble] Then him again, "Maybe I should talk to her. Tell her that I don't love her anymore and that we're total opposites." [then again a womans voice] "yeah, __ talk to her." (i can hear that last blank,is name that he goes by at work,he goes by middle name at home and with old friends and family). Later he says that he has no freedom anymore.... and that is most of it.

So I would really like to know if you very unbiased people think that I am a real nut?! Take notice of all the words, if they are there, I am sure of them. Think of it as a mystery to be solved. Notice specifics, I won't point them out yet! But will ask again later and respond to any who look at the clues!!!

jls

It's important to do an effective PLAN A prior to PLAN B or else PLAN B is worthless ESPECIALLY if YOU ASKED HIM to move out. I don't understand your reason for that if you did. BECAUSE YOU CAUGHT HIM IN A LIE? That does not seem like a sufficient reason not to be living with your H particularly if you have children together.

I think he was definitely not talking to himself! TRUST YOUR GUT!

So is it reasonable to ask him to move back home so that you can do PLAN A and EXPOSE the A.

Read up on the MB CONCEPTS of PLAN A AND PLAN B to gather further understanding. You can find this info. in the book Surviving an Affair. Also you can find the info. on this website. Just don't depend on us. Go to the sources.

Once time during my H's A - before D-day, an employee told me he had just finished talking to my H on his cell phone only it didn't hang up all the way. He heard my H calling someone honey and sweetie, and parts of a one sided conversation. It didn't make sense how he could hear that since his cell phone call was still connected. My H denied to me that he was talking to someone. Long after, it finally came out that my H had a secret cell phone he kept hidden in his truck just to talk to his A partner.

I wouldn't believe he was talking to himself in those recordings. They all deny or try to make you sound crazy. You aren't crazy. Trust your gut. It is frustrating not to have real proof positive. I allowed myself to get sicker and sicker before I had finally had it and stopped the denial that he was having an A.

Plan B or separation and firm bounderies from you may be necessary to end the fantasy/cake eating that WS's tend to love to prolong.

Did anyone here realize that my H used "I" and "you" in his conversations to "HIMSELF". And he said "my son" in one. This is evidence to me, along with the female voice answering him. He will still not admit. I hired a PI, with what little money I had and the PI sucked. My H goes to work everyday at a job where he conceivably still has contact with this woman that uses his work name. He will not quit his job unless I force him too with threat of D while separated and that is still a maybe. I tried to talk to him about looking for another job before and he said that he would but put no real effort towards it. That was over a year ago.

Mimi,

What about my boundaries? He has known that lying is a "deal-breaker", esp. about interaction with female coworkers!!! I caught him dead to rights and he still continued to lie as we talked. He would change it as he went, I would call him on it, and he would change it again. This went on for hoursthis time, not including other lies that he has told in hte past.

SS, he DOES know what is going on.

Have to go put S7 to bed. Will be back later.

jls

Thanks Trix,

I really have to go with this one. I did look for a cell...Nothing. It might be over, this was almost two years ago. It might not have been much. But it was something to lie about, and continue to deny!!

Sorry, it still really hurts.
jls

BUT:

Lying is not a reason to ask for MARITAL SEPARATION.

PLAN A then PLAN B is what is recommended by the MB SYSTEM.

I know that Mimi. I respect you very much, I read your posts often. It seems as if you became stronger and wiser thru your H's A and dealing with it. I have been here for a long time, just didn't used to post too much.

I have done Plan A for too long, since, at least Oct 03, off and on. I have made some real permanent changes, and am willing to make more. I have also grown very resentful, for numerous reasons. I can no longer be around H for long, without LBing. I hurt too much and end up lashing out. Tonite, for example; He came by to see S7, H hasn't been here since Sun. S7 didn't want to go to him, so he came here. I mowed, then left to run some errands. Otherwise S sticks with me, and he needed some dad time. H kept calling me and asking where I was and when would I be back. I left at 7:10 or so and was back at 8:40. We talked a little and ended up in an argument (mostly my fault). H wants to came home, i will not let him at this point. I have been doing a pretty darn good Plan A last effort before Plan B, as suggested here. I knew that I could not deal with H tonite without LBing, that is another reason that I was trying to be busy!

It gets very hard, as I am sure that you know, to deal with someone that you KNOW is lying to you, esp. in a M. He will not stop! What else am I to do? I have tried to make him feel safe, I think that he manipulates me with his lies. On another thread, I was explaining how we had an argument awhile back. He got a stomachache and was depressed. I found out that the next day, tho he was very "down" and "sick" here at home, that he went to work and was a barrel of laughs. When I asked him how work was that eve, he told me that he was at his desk all day and didn't speak to anyone. He told me that he hated work and was depressed there also (partly because of our argument the nite before). He plays the martyr very well, this has been a prob with me throughout our M. He is flirty at work adn then claims that he speaks to nobody. He speaks down to me, as in "We do not joke around at work, I do not work in a BAR", (I do, part-time). I used to work in research, people still joked around. I cannot ask him about work at all, he gets defensive or clams up. Even before all this, he never told me anything.

I don't know WHAT to do!! I have been very confused and lost for 2 years now. I have posted about this a few times and more recently.

I have felt as if I have been very close to having a nervous breakdown a few times. I want ME back and this is the only way I seem to be able to do this.

Help me out here Mimi. I do welcome your input. I am trying to stick with this plan, it is very hard and I don't know how to do this all the time.

Thanks,
jls

Been doing a pretty darn good Plan A. H spent last Thurs. all day here, that nite and weekend up 'til Sun nite. He had spent lots of the past weekend here also, but not Mon, Tues or Wed. I told him that I needed him to realize things were still not OK.

He is very much like that. If I don't reiterate (or "nag", as some would say here), then he will go on and act as if all is well. Always. Can we say conflict avoider?! But nothing ever changes (at least, not for the better or not for long at all).

Anyhoo, H was very depressed last week, when he was not around us for 3 days. I am really worried about what would happen if I go to Plan B.

He wants me to see his IC also. I have every intention of doing so, I guess I have been stalling tho. H says that one of the things that she wants to ask me is what it would take for me to trust him. I DON"T KNOW anymore. 2 years ago, I answered this, to him and MC and IC. But he continued to lie...and wouldn't even look for another job(that one i kinda' get), and hasn't spent anymore time with me. And is still being manipulative, a martyr( he has the poor poor thing down very well), and yet hiding his resentments- altho not as well, I am "on" to him-.

So now what?!! How do I trust? H says well now he won't lie to me. Hmm,he said that before. No he means it..uh-huh, heard it. No reallly, even if it hurts...heard it too. Then lies.


jls

If you go to plan B there isn't a need to worry about the WS. That's the beauty of it. Worrying about the WS is a tactic the WS use to keep the BS in their pocket. Once you realize you have been used and abused, then you will get movitated enough to g/t plan B. Remember plan is about you and for you.

If the IC has to ask what you w/d to trust the WS again, I'd change ICs. There is no trust t/b given to a WS. Ask your IC where she got her license.

Can you call Steve to get a good plan together? I probably asked about counseling with Steve before, just hate to see you bantered around by an incompetant IC/MC or WS.


L.

jl----im married to what i call an everyday liar too. or he was anyway. LOL i got asked the same thing by a counselor...told him i would need a surgeon...the surgeon would have to implant a lie detector that shocked hubby's scrotum when he lied---it would have to be permanent and he would have to volunteer for this surgery on his own!!!

then i called steve.....best money ever spent. there are still times i wonder about the honesty of everyday life...but he knows if i even get a whiff of a whopper....he is outta here!

Thanks Orchid, will add that to my "thought process". H can be VERY manipulative. But I also know him and am very much worried about him in a Plan B state of mind!

Nikko, That is a GREAT idea. I wonder if they could do that?!LOL.
How DO you get through the everyday? How do you get past the sorrying about the lies? Yes, I know, focus on me. But if that is part of my R, then it is part of my life and therein, part of me! IS it better, now, nikko? The only time it gets better for me, is when I don't care. And that is not good for my M.

Oh, well, enuf of that and back to work. Thanks for your responses.

Now, for Plan B. Thinking about waiting 'til kids are out of school for summer. It will make it easier when I have to work during the week. H has been staying here on the weeknites that I work and then taking S7 to school. Only 2 more weeks of that. I just don't want to drag this out. I am not patient. I am ok with the separation right now, but I think that is because H calls every 5 minutes. This will be SOO hard.

jls

edited 'cause i don't know who is who...

I like Nikko's idea for surgery. Wish I had known about it earlier.

Seagull, one thought is: what couldn't you do, that you wanted to, when WH was around? Do it now. Go to samba classes, watch the sunrise with the Wiccan people, take up scuba diving. Have a blast. This is YOUR time.

Not thinking about him will be GREAT for your marriage.

Hi A.M.,

I like all those ideas! I am weird enuf to try them. That is what I like about the separation, no pressure and what I want (with kids, of course).

I guess taht I am just a chickensh!+. I want to remove myself from the drama, just the nice stuff is still good. And I am truly worried about him.

What if I am wrong? What if he was talking to hisself, and I am NUTS?? Not as farfetched as I would like to think. HELP...glug.. drowning... in worries..glug!


jls

Well, I thought you decided that whatever he was doing on the tape, that there were enough borderline incidents, friendships, etc., that you were ready to throw in the towel. That you were tired of guessing, and being lied to, and having this anxiety be the focus of your relationship.

Yes, A.M. You are right!! That is what I decidED. I am just so unsure of everythign right now. Hate this wishy-washiness.

I am mulling everything over, going to his counselor 2moro and will see him today or 2moro nite when I work and he watches S7. Not sure how I would work that with Plan B, unless H doesn't take S7 to school in mornings. And after working 'til ~330 am (sometimes not in bed 'til 4-430) it HURTS to get up that early, tho I have.

Thanks A.M., it sounds so simple when you put it that way. Just was making sure that i listened to ALL the advice and thought deeply on everything, before I did anything "crazy".
I have been known to act too rashly sometimes.

jls

Mimi and others made me double-think (3x+4..).

I just want to make as sure as possible that i would not be making a serious mistake. I sometimes DO think that I am crazy. I have doubts about over-reacting...

I know that most here can give me some unbiased perspectives! Hit away. I would like all different opinions, ANY comments. Please, feel free.

Thanks,
jls

The most important thing is to be firm and committed. Don't waffle or your words mean nothing -- just as his words mean nothing.

You should be prepared for a Plan B. You'll be doing a lot of things alone that you know share. For many, it can be hard at the beginning.

Maybe you should call the Harleys on this one. You seem to have enough doubts that it might be worthwhile.