In general, there are 2 ways that we human beings are motivated to do what we do.

[color:"red"]1. Avoidance of pain [/color]

~and~

[color:"red"]2. Pursuit of pleasure [/color]

Use this knowledge when you are designing your plan for your marriage.

Be aware of what motivates ~you~ and also be aware of what is motivating your spouse.

Remember to [color:"blue"]K.I.S.S. [/color]

keep it simple stupid

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Well Pep, I don't want to argue with you.

If my W finds it painful to be with me, and gets pleasure out of OM, my goose is cooked!

Is this supposed to be encouraging? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sometimes it seems that I don't know anything about my W - or about me either.

I'm so far down that I would almost give up my child forever just to not have to see my w (forever <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />)

So, avoiding the pain of seeing my w, must be more important than the amazing pleasure of seeing my DD4. Of course, I'm still there (well, actually, I'm at the office in the middle of the night - not because I can't sleep, but because I don't want to.)

-AD (I'm not here. I quit MB already. Don't tell. OK?)

Well Pep, I don't want to argue with you.

[color:"blue"] Good. That makes 2 of us. I don't want to agrue with me either ![/color]

If my W finds it painful to be with me, and gets pleasure out of OM, my goose is cooked!

[color:"blue"] How do you know what sort of pain she might be escaping? Many times, I've noticed, a WAW (walk-away-wife) is escaping from the pain of who she is in her marriage.... don't you think that's an interesting idea? Apparently, you assume she is running away from you. I donno .... she could be escaping her vison of herself. You went into this marriage with the knowledge you were choosing a female with deep wounds inflicted on her way before you ever met her. You married a wounded girl, not a mature strong woman.[/color]

Is this supposed to be encouraging? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] no ... thought provoking[/color]

Sometimes it seems that I don't know anything about my W - or about me either.

[color:"blue"] This is the effect trama has ... a profound and disorienting sense of loss.[/color]

I'm so far down that I would almost give up my child forever just to not have to see my w (forever <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />)

[color:"blue"] see how really lost you are ... you have forgotton the beautiful role you have of being *daddy* ... No one can take that away from you except yourself.[/color]

So, avoiding the pain of seeing my w, must be more important than the amazing pleasure of seeing my DD4. Of course, I'm still there (well, actually, I'm at the office in the middle of the night - not because I can't sleep, but because I don't want to.)

[color:"blue"] Why don't you want to sleep?[/color]

-AD (I'm not here. I quit MB already. Don't tell. OK?)

[color:"blue"] Your secret is safe with me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

[color:"red"]Pep [/color] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

AD

Do you know there are people in this world to whom a loving stable home environment is the scariest place to be?

Do you know that there are some people in this world to whom chaos and uncertainty feels more comfortable than peace and serenity?

Do you know there are some people in this world who must throw happiness away with two hands because they know they will never fit in where it is happy?

Just wondering if you were aware of these things....

If you Plan A this sort of person, they get more and more uncomfortable. They need to get further and further from the discomfort and harmony of Plan A .

If you Plan B this sort of person, their dark, gloomy unhappy view of the world is confirmed, and this brings some level of satisfaction that they were right to avoid happiness since it never remains permanent.

This is a very special sort of person who needs some very special sort of long-term professional help.

I have such a person in close proximity to me. I have learned to expect different reactions from this person, and very short-term bursts of happiness in the good times, followed by more instability of his own making. Therapy has helped. More is needed. I no longer take responsibility for the confusing turn of events which used to confound me so much.

You need more help than MB can provide. Are you getting it?

Pep

Pep - good job describing my XW.

WAT
-----------------------
[color:"blue"]K.I.S.S.[/color] for WSs - keep it stupid simple

Thanks for this .... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I have one too.

Susan

The phrase

[color:"green"] through a glass darkly [/color]

comes to mind

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> (love you Suz)

To see “through a glass”—a mirror—“darkly” is to have an obscure or imperfect vision of reality.

Yes, that is it.

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Pep, all

I think I have that with a twist -- It's not that he doesn't love me. It's not that he thinks his life was bad with me. It's that when it comes to loving and living with other people, he doesn't want to accept that his own existence is all life is going to do for him. Life is just this - it's living.

It isn't going to matter WHO the woman in Phil's life is. The desire for his life to mean MORE and for him to be more with relation to personal attachments will remain. Without some intensive and very real, non-partisan insight from a therapist or trusted person, I think Phil will always want the perfect fantasy over a good reality.

Phil knows his life is good but he can’t remain satisfied. He doesn’t know how to justify his dissatisfaction with his good life to himself and others? All he knows is that he feels unfulfilled. So when reality doesn’t keep giving him his expected/desired outcome, but he doesn’t really have anything to complain about, Phil will seek chaos and destruction to evoke change.

The problem is that in reality, Phil HATES the chaos. Phil likes the comfort of stability. He needs it. The subsequent change and unrest he experiences from the chaos is unmanageable. Phil's whole life is about calculated risk. He isn't willing to let go of the idea that happiness can be measured in terms of expected outcome in order to experience a more fulfilling life.

Phil has enough comfort with the level of control/management he has for the other factors he uses to measure his happiness. He can calculate his expected payoff with his career, his belongings, his appearance, his information intake -- even the depth and frequency of encounters with friends and childhood family. He is a man who likes to know the outcome before he decides to risk.

Living life with a wife, possibly children – it’s too hard for Phil to keep investing himself daily, short-term without knowing what he will gain or lose long-term. So after recharging himself with stability for a while, he’ll seek chaos and start his cycle over again.

I have this mental image of Phil living in a Habitrail - one of those hamster houses with lots of tunnel connections and room additions. You know what I mean?

The Habitrail door is wide open. It smells nice outside but Phil can't leave the known safety of confinement. Frustrated with himself, he messes up the Habitrail; poops and urinates everywhere including his food dish, making inedible mush. Then he runs around like crazy on that little wheel until the open door is forgotten. Weary of running, he rests and waits for someone to tidy his mess and give him more sustenance.

Sal

Pep

Squid ran away from being a beloved forty year old SAH mother of two when she wanted to be a Charlies' Angel.

I am learning her affair was NOTHING to do with me and was not a critique of my husbandry.

She needed to wear a 'scarlet woman' outfit to see how it fitted her aspirations.

She looked like a dumb slut who was throwing away everything valuable to her so she decided not to be that person any more. ( her words)

I am sad that it took her affair to make her value what she has, but value it she does. Truly.

Not sure how this precept relates to the 'pleasure principle' of your initial post , but true anyway !