FF, I commend your self-control that, at such provocation, you didn't just blat the truth out and let both your stbx AND Ms.Guided squirm together. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Hope it made your stbx good and uncomfortable, too, although from what I've read about him, he doesn't seem to be like a man much troubled by nuance. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

t&l

AW, did you make those up yourself? I laughed out loud when I read them. Somebody's spent a LOT of time around MenMakingExcuses, is all I can say! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

t&l

P.S. In all fairness, I suppose we should give equal time and space to those of the male gender who might want to provide us with some definitions of Girl-Speak, too! Any brave (spell that F-0-O-L-H-A-R-D-Y <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />) soul want to volunteer? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Neak, I'd ask you off-line and in person, except that this question is of such monumental inconsequence I could never hope to remember it when I actually see you. Apparently I missed it when you were growing up, because I've never heard of (or certainly don't remember) this extremely stupid-sounding Marco Polo game. What on earth was the purpose of it, and why? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I absolutely agree with this. But have you noticed that certain people are considered "wise ones" and they practice it but most of us are rejectd and considered "hard" when we practice it.

I only learned of tough love recently (one of the things I learned whn studying about As), but intuitively I have practiced it before.

Many years ago, when my brother was in his late teens or early 20s I told him he would become alcoholic if he didn't stop drinking. I must have said this very seriously because years later, out of the blue, he said: "see, I'm not an alcoholic like you said I would be". So it must have had quite an effect on him. I'm not sure he's not an alcoholic or will be yet, but if he remembers I warned him and it stops him it will have been worth it. It didn't make ME popular though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So I guess you have to choose those situations in which you have a chace of it actually working to practice it, because the toll on the one practicing it is big!

It's no fun being the "bad guy," the heavy, the enforcer. Not if you're a regular person, and not a bully. And even just telling the truth (nicely) can seem harsh to somebody who's not quite ready yet to look reality squarely in the face. We had a nice couple for friends, long ago when the kids were little. Both husbands were church school teachers. I'll call them the Snits. They were very good friends. One of their daughters sometimes babysat for us, although Neakbro does not have fond recollections of her, since she gave him a detested nickname that still occasionally surfaces in family trips down Memory Lane...and the passage of years hasn't improved his taste for it in the slightest. But I digress...

Mr. Snit was very much inclined to think people were picking on him. Every suggestion was perceived as a criticism, with all criticisms being unjust and unnecessary. Instead of providing him with some friendly insight, Mrs. Snit encouraged him to think he was being mistreated, too, and so he walked around in a perpetual sense of ill-use. Not a productive mind-set for a high school teacher. Over the years, there were several observations made about his physical contact with the school girls. I never saw anything inappropriate personally. The incidents were comparatively minor--hugging, etc.--but instead of exercising due caution because of them, he only complained that he was being treated unfairly and singled out by rude people. He made no changes in his behavior, and eventually was fired over one incident too many. Naturally, he thought this was unfair, too.

I've often thought about how little use his wife was to him in this, and how much good a little tough love might've done from somebody who was on his side. He needed reality-based insight, not additional fuel for his paranoia, and he didn't get it. For better or worse, HP has gotten a fair share of reality-based insight over the years. He'd probably tell you it was much more than he felt he needed, if he were feeling chatty and confiding. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> And I've gotten my share over the years, too. It wasn't all a one-way street. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Honesty isn't always easy, from either the giving OR the receiving ends!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Sometimes it's just easier to be a chicken and keep your (generic) blasted mouth shut! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

t&l

You are, as usual absolutely right!

I think I am going to try to find a balance between "tough love" and "knowing that you can't control others nor can you be held responsible for THEIR decisions".

My best friend has 2 children of the same age as mine, so when they were small we would get together often with the kids. Unfortunately her younger son was sooooooooo aggressive that not may people looked forward to her visits with the kids! She told me that herself! I had realized that that child had problems by the time he was 2 years old but never told her, because her husband is teh kind who's convinced that anything that is his is perfect!

So years later luckily the problem is not aggression per se, but the kid (now 17) has been asked to leave a couple of schools, has been in counciling, they have gone to family counciling too. Not that bad a result, so far. I always wonder what would have happened if he had been treated for his behaviours as a small child.

I'm going through a similar situation with my niece at this moment. I have tried to help her by talking to SIL with "advice" but it hasn't worked, and I turned out to be the "bad guy", probably.

I have to find that balance!

I think Mr. Snit was a molester.

Refusal to accept clearly stated bounderies is one of the red flags.

Going on the attack when confronted...classic deflection.

neaksis if you felt uneasy around this man as kid then I would say you picked up something not right with his behaviour.

Its amazing how many victims - kids - say very similar things..they felt 'uneasy' around the person way before anything happened.

Of course not every time a child felt 'uneasy' meant the person was a molester, but it does seem to be part of a pattern. But better safe than sorry isnt it.

Actually I don't remember him at all. I am just studying up on red flag behaviors for a presentation at my church next week, so it is rather on my mind.

When Neak wakes up I'll ask her for her impressions because she was older back in those days and might remember him better.

red flag behaviour is very complicated.

we had to study it a bit in family services and yes all the obvious ones are included BUT you also had to take into account cultural differences - some cultures are what we would say in Oz as 'touchy feely' ... we european type cultures dont like doing that in the main. but some do.

but like our senior case worker said ..when in doubt REPORT & PROTECT we can apologise later - of course being the Crown we couldn't be sued for 'honest' mistakes only where we were careless. Sadly the problem was usually we didn't have enough poeple to do the job not the other way around.

but if parents and the general public knew a bit more then maybe there would be improvement you think?

anyway it would be interestng to see what neak remembers in a sit like this. I always remember the course I went on for security & safety.. in the middle of a lecture two poeple came into the room & started fighting and then ran off .... we were asked to write down what we saw.... there were 10 of us and we had 10 different impressions. I dont think one of us got it totally right ...or wrong. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Sorry, no help here. Maybe it would have been different if I were older, in the sense that if he was, that would have been his target group. I remember him clearly, but nothing made me uncomfy.

In Marco Polo, the It has to keep their eyes closed for the duration, and swim around trying to tag people. To give them at least a small hope of actually catching someone, they call out "Marco", and the reply is mandatory for all swimmers whose noses are above water. The It swims toward the "Polo"s and will eventually stumble upon one of the other players, who then becomes It.

Hi all - Just got caught up reading. I got back from Mexico very early this morning. I had a wonderful, wonderful time, but came back early because I'm sick - not Montezuma's revenge, or Malaria luckily - just a bad cold. But cold and all, it was the trip of a lifetime.

I didn't run into any truly creepy people until high school.

Then there was the college teacher who had me walk him to his car to get something (music? don't remember), and tried to get me to go out to eat with him, using persistence waaaaaaaay beyond any politeness or normal boundaries. Despite my Pleaser nature, I held firm and refused because he made me so uncomfortable. Never would go out and get stuff from his car, either. Yyyyyyyuk!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Uncle Hilland Snit a child molester?

Aunt Dental Snit a blinders-wearing enabler?

Got to tell you it's hard to imagine, but I suppose most child molesters' friends say that about them when they find out what their buddies have been up to! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

t&l

Welcome back, Believer. I think what you did was an extraordinarily generous gesture, and I'm SO impressed with you. But I'm also guessing that after your trip, you can't help but feel at least a little bit glad that you yourself are a US citizen. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

t&l

Hi B


so glad it was a great experience! Hope you get over that cold!! when you feel better tell us all about the trip, how the house looked ,,the whole thing ..but when you are feeling better [[[b]]]

Neak I've met some real 'creepy' types in family services ... yuck is right ... and hose were only the ones I worked with !! lol no not really...well ONE ..but didn't realise how much a big creep until way too late

but then I have a habit of learning AFTER the event lately <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Aussie is 5 days overdue now..but no news is good news kwim?

Jonnie is ok though, DD was told by one of his mates hes way over at another patrol point..where ever that is and wont be back until Wednesday ..she had a big smiley face tonight <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

T&L - It was very good to come back home to the good ole USA. I enjoyed the trip very much. The home is extremely humble - maybe 600 square feet, which is average for Tehuantepec. It has all of the modern features, like running cold water, and electricity. No hot water or refrigerator though.

On my arrival I was greeted by my friend and his wife, their 2 children, the wifes mother and father, his mother and father, the wife's 5 brothers and 2 sisters, and their 12 children, his 3 brothers and their wives, and 4 grandparents. I was quite the celebrity.

It was very touching. His wife laid out a nice nighty for me on my mat on top of corn husks on the floor. I have never stayed in a place quite so humble, where everyone was so excited to have me.

Hi B! *waving*

AW, I think the army should get with Hallmark and provide a tracking device that sends out at least a daily e-card. When they are doing ok, maybe Thinking of You, or Missing You. (That's just for the lazy ones.)

If they are out on a top secret mission and legitimately can't write, the e-cards could be Still Fine, But Can't Wait to Get Back.

If they are, at some point, taking fire, an emergency card would be generated along the lines of Pray for Me - I'm Having a Difficult Time Right Now. (With, of course, the appropriate message once the danger is over.)

The biggest advantage in alleviating suspense would be the near-instantaneous notifications in the event of injuries (no sensitive info, naturally), and no need to jump when the doorbell rings. Although I suppose you would just jump when you got an e-card instead.

There is no perfect solution; I only wish there were. Still, I think this would be better than the current system.

Having said that, as long as things are the way they are, we rejoice with you at your lack of news.

It turned out to be a good thing I went to church in Lockeford yesterday, where no one knew anything was wrong. See, it turns out that we'resogladtoseeyou hugs are almost as deadly as we'resosorryforyourloss hugs. It also turned out to be a good thing I was so late, only arriving for the last half-hour of church.

Lockeford is a little country church where I know quite a few of the people, but don't see them very often. However, this week some of the staff from the nearby church school were putting on the service, so I had some of my teachers there, plus a good friend from college who now works there. That alone was almost more love than I could handle.

Add to that the people who were genuinely delighted to see me again after so long, and who wanted to know a-l-l about how I was doing lately, and I barely left intact, with people still calling after me, "Noooo! Please stay for potluck! There is so much food...pleeeeeeeeeez!". A half-hour was about the largest dose I could have taken just then. Maybe next week I'll try for 45 minutes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Whew!

Neaksis is already framing the book, and by jingo she has some good ideas.