I've been posting for a while. I think maybe part of my problem is a lack of understanding on what boundaries are.

My wife refuses to quit her job, she claims the affair is over and she rarely even sees the OM, but I doubt this. She did finally confide in me tonight that they only have one opportunity to see each other during the work day and that she is avoiding this opportunity.

She calls me daily to check in and she is trying to be nice, unless I bring up our situation or the affair. If I bring up the affair, she becomes hostile. It's very strange to be with someone for 22 years and have them act so out of character.

So I'm back to my original question. What are boundaries? Some examples would be very helpful. My wife is a school teacher and had an affair with a co-worker.

I have decided to call SH tomorrow to set up an appointment. Hopefully he can give me some insight and help.

I’ve done a search and I think you might find the following thread very helpfull (especially pay attention to the 180 degree list):
Enforcing boundaries and plan A

You can also read this thread to help you understand what boundaries are and how you can communicate it to your W.

Hope it helps,
Suzet

grrrrrr, my post disappeared! Grovetuck, I think it is great that you are contacting SH, he is worth every penny. He can assess your situation and give you a plan. Additionally, please read the excellent links that Suzet gave you, they should be a great help.

Take care and come back and tell us what SH says. Good move!

Excellent, Grove.

My explanation of "boundaries" are the standards of conduct you expect from anyone you interface with. For example, a boundary you might establish in your family is that no decisions regarding your daughter are made unilaterally by either parent. A boundary you can establish in your sitch right now is that any communication with OM by your wife is unacceptable. In a marriage, the tough part is establishing boundaries without them feeling like demands to your spouse. Most boundaries don't have to be dictated or spoken. You establish them by example. I think your problem so far is that you expect your wife to honor all boundaries. This ain't gonna happen immediately. If you make a boundary a demand - it may never happen.

The other thing you may not understand yet is that you cannot expect to change your wife nor make her do anything and dealing with affairs is hardly ever a short process. Read around this forum and you'll see your sitch in the posts of many other MBers. Absorb it all.

WAT

I guess I set some boundaries months ago, wife just didn't follow them and i didn't do anything about it.

I feel like I need to start over.

Hopefully talking to Steve will be helpful.

Hello again.

I had a good day today, unfortunately the evening wasn't so good.

The job postings came out this week for my wife's school district. I asked if she had looked yet, she said she hasn't had time and mentioned that she might if she didn't call me during the day. She then mentioned that there are no guarantees in life and that she's not sure that she will find a job she's willing to take for next year. I got quiet, and she asked what was wrong. She said she can't stand the way I look at her now. I told her, in a very calm way, that I understand that she has to do what she feels is right for her, but that I'm very sorry, but it would be too hurtful for me to go another year with her working with the OM. I told her that this is something I have to have for my sake and if she can't guarantee that, I don't know that I will be able to stay in the marriage.

WOW, she blew up, then said "here we go again." I told her I didn't know what she meant, but that I was just expressing how I felt and what I would need in order to remain in the marriage. I reminded her that it was her decision as to whether she kept working there, but that I would have to act accordingly. I did say that if she can't guarantee this, that I would have to leave the house and most likely move towards a divorce.

It went downhill from there, she got nasty, but I remained calm. She claimed I was harassing her, and I replied I didn't understand how I was doing that. I was simply making it clear what I would need to feel secure and help me to recover from her affair.

Oh well, she got even nastier as I tried to explain how I felt. She says she's going to see her attorney and cancel our weekend marriage seminar.

Grove - you're digging yourself a hole. I know your intentions are good, but you love busted her to the moon. You made a demand that she is not capable of hearing right now. ANYTHING having to do with OM is a demand and an "invasion of her privacy." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Sad, but this is her reality for the time being. You have GOT to stop thinking of her as someone who sees this from your perspective. She doesn't.

I suggest you not discuss OM any more for any reason - not until you get some one-on-one guidance from Steve.

Instead, read as much as you can find on Plan A. Do a 180. Get her attention by NOT trying to get her attention.

WAT

WAT, I know you have a lot more experience than I do, but I just do not see what Grove did wrong here:

***She said she can't stand the way I look at her now. I told her, in a very calm way, that I understand that she has to do what she feels is right for her, but that I'm very sorry, but it would be too hurtful for me to go another year with her working with the OM.***

Sounds perfectly reasonable and Radically Honest to me.

***I told her that this is something I have to have for my sake and if she can't guarantee that, I don't know that I will be able to stay in the marriage.***

Again, perfectly reasonable and honest. WW NEEDS to hear this so she can never say, "Well, you never told me . . . "

***WOW, she blew up, then said "here we go again."***

Of course she did. Anger and blame have worked very well in the past to make Grove back off and leave her alone. Of course she's going to blow up at him anytime he interferes with her cozy little setup.

***I told her I didn't know what she meant, but that I was just expressing how I felt and what I would need in order to remain in the marriage.***

He's not supposed to do this?

***I reminded her that it was her decision as to whether she kept working there, but that I would have to act accordingly.***

Or this? Sounds like a perfect case of Stating and Enforcing A Boundary to me -- of enforcing that boundary in the only possible way, through HIS actions instead of waiting for hers.

***I did say that if she can't guarantee this, that I would have to leave the house and most likely move towards a divorce.***

Well, this may have been a little much *for right now.* You should not threaten divorce unless that's really what you intend to do. And Grove should NOT be the one to leave the house -- SHE should do that because SHE is the one who has abandoned her family by having an affair.

***It went downhill from there, she got nasty,***

Well, again, of course she did.

***but I remained calm. She claimed I was harassing her, and I replied I didn't understand how I was doing that. I was simply making it clear what I would need to feel secure and help me to recover from her affair.***

And I just do not see what's wrong with that. Maybe somebody can set me straight on this.
Mulan

Mulan - I think you make a good case that maybe I shouldn't have made it sound so much like he was being unreasonable. I don't think he was being unreasonable, but I was struck with a tone that he was being a bit pushy about OM rather than simply stopping at stating his boundary.

Thanks for bringing this up.

Grove - Mulan is exactly right that you should clearly and directly communicate your displeasure and pain. Even when perfectly delivered, she will be angry. But once stated, please don't continue to bring up OM. He's not the problem, just a symptom of the problem. Of course he needs to go - the way you do that is by showing your wife via Plan A that she doesn't need him.

WAT

Ok, Thanks, WAT.

Grove, hang in there. We're all struggling. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Mulan

Thanks Mulan, I was a little unsure how to take WAT's comments. I thought I had finally got it.

Wife called today to say she was depressed. I told her I'm sorry to hear that. She said she thinks we're over. She talked about being a "social" person and needing to get out and that she wasn't sure she wanted to go to counseling tonight or the marriage seminar this weekend. I told her to do whatever she wanted to do. She says she can't move forward with her life. I told her I'm sorry, I can understand why she feels that way, but that we can't just wish this away.

She brought up the job thing again. She doesn't want to work somewhere else. I simply stated for her to do what she felt she needed to do for herself, but that I wouldn't be able to remain in the relationship if she continued to work with the OM.

She also told me that he was in a meeting that she was in today, but he left early to talk to a student's parent.

While I appreciate her honesty, I think this proves that she still is "involved" in his affairs (no pun intended).

It's very hard to be with someone for 22 years and have them act so out of character. It's very hard to deal with and quite frankly, it's like your wife is gone and has been replaced by someone new. To be honest, I'm not sure I like this new person.

How many times now have you told her that it's either OM or you?

It's one thing to state your boundary and describe your pain, it's an ultimatum (love buster) to continue to say "stop working with OM or else."

I suggest you be positive about your family and marriage instead of fatalistic. Stop bringing up OM - you've done this enough. She knows your position. Talk about your confidence for rebuilding when she's ready. Talk about how you're gonna get counseling and how you're gonna fix the problems you contributed to the marriage and how you're optimistic about how much better things can be. Just don't add, ".....once you stop working with OM."

See the difference?

WAT

Hi Grove & company..
been reading your post recently.
Can I ask a question??
When you guys got married did you discuss ahead of time what things you just couldnt put up with??
What I mean by that is - when my husband & I started out we said there are 3 rules that we would leave the other person over. Every thing else we can work through -no matter how mad..
#1 -adultery . won't stand for it on either end.
#2 -hitting , kicking. -physical abuse..again on both ends
#3 -physical abuse of our children...

If adultery was one of your initial boundaries - well, you kinda had a right to say what you said.

slag - so are you leaving?


Of couse he had a right to say that regardless of whether it was a specified boundary or not, but this isn't about rights.

This is about doing all you can to create an environment for the affair to end and improvong the marriage. Imposing rights can be counterproductive to that.

WAT