I really appreciate all the support and advice I've gotten from everybody on this Board. It has been over 2 weeks since I've seen or spoken to my WH. It's been a time of great peace. I've gotten a lot of things done and made a few babysteps towards crucial decisions. I feel like I've spent a lot less time spinning my wheels, so to speak.

Last night, WH called and left a message in response to a "business" email I sent him. There are a few issues we need to discuss like whether or not we have the $ to send DS#2 to a special sport camp and the present DS#1 wants for his 21st birthday and the imminent death of our computer monitor. WH said he would call back later. I found myself in a heightened state of anxiety all evening. Of course, no call. Finally, around 10, I sent a TM that said if he actually intended on calling, to do so tomorrow (today) because I was tired and going to bed. Even this little contact left me feeling all "jazzed" up.

I've been finding great comfort in the things that you all have been telling me. I've come to accept that what the kids, his parents and I are getting from WH are probably all he is capable of. I realize now that WH has always been a cafeteria parent. He has always been minimally involved with the mainstream of our lives. It just wasn't as noticable when he was home every night. We "drifted apart" because he wasn't even on the same river as the rest of us. Except for giving him a letter, I don't think he will even be conscious of when I actually go into Plan B.

Is there hope for this marriage? Hard to say. There would have to be major changes. I think I'm coming to a place where I am moving on but he is in steady state. Perhaps WH thinks that he can do what he wants and then drop back into our lives. I have set a time limit of November 1st. Don't you think the Day of the Dead is an appropriate time to consider Divorce?

Give Plan B longer than 6 months I think ... at least a year.

Just a guideline ... but nothing has to be rushed while de-fogging yourself in Plan B... just know this, you will KNOW when you are ready...

Be creative with your time away from H's chaos.

Pep

Grape:

I have to "eat my words". Have you heard of that expression?

I was one conveying the thought that your WH may not be capable of changing. ARK disagreed with me. She is right. I also had a SHADOW H as you call yours. My H has almost miraculously changed.

He is as we speak actively involved in our Ss' lives. He has arranged a lot of special situations in their lives over the past several weeks. The Ss and him are in constant contact. I am standing on the sidelines in AWE!!

I wish I could have taken a snapshot of my H and OS sobbing in each others' arms after his college graduation. My YS stood in awe! We are all AWED by this....

It is so unfortunate that we had to go through the trauma of the A, PLAN A, PLAN B, almost D, to get here. However, I finally have a normal, healthy family in the making. It's scary. However, I just might be able to go ahead and EAT THE FEAST after settling for the crumbs for so long....

My recommendation to you is to do PLAN B after the graduation. The graduation festivities are part of your PLAN A. Have your letter ready. Do it the MB WAY.....

CHANGE CAN HAPPEN...

GET IT DONE!!!

WH said he would call back later. I found myself in a heightened state of anxiety all evening. Of course, no call. Finally, around 10, I sent a TM that said if he actually intended on calling, to do so tomorrow (today) because I was tired and going to bed.
Pretty much a love buster when you wrote, “if he actually intended on calling”.
Don’t be sarcastic (this was).

I have set a time limit of November 1st.
You didn’t tell him the time limit, did you? This is not something you should do.

Don't you think the Day of the Dead is an appropriate time to consider Divorce?
No. It is not a morbid holiday. The Day of the Dead is a time to celebrate & welcome dead relatives back into the home.
And yes, you should do Plan B for at least a year. Set that as a “goal” (which you can adjust as needed) from when you start Plan B. And remember, that date/timeframe is not to be given to anyone (‘cept us <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />).

Too much “discussion”.
As much as possible, you are supposed to be getting along without his help.

Last night, WH called and left a message in response to a "business" email I sent him. There are a few issues we need to discuss like whether or not we have the $ to send DS#2 to a special sport camp
Simply figure out how much it is, how much you can pay and ask H if he is willing to pay the difference.
Not much to discuss.

and the present DS#1 wants for his 21st birthday
Do the same as above.

and the imminent death of our computer monitor
Go buy a new one. You don’t need his assistance.

Life continues on as it has.

Pep: I am trying to take care of myself. Yesterday, I went golfing with my girlfriend. It's the first time I've been golfing since I was in high school. (And that is a LONG time ago.) About 8 years ago, WH, who has never played golf, bought a set of clubs at a warehouse store. When I complained about him taking up a hobby that would take him away from us even more, he bought me a set. Both sat in their boxes until yesterday when I opened mine. I enjoyed it. It was a beautiful day, I didn't lose any balls, didn't hit anybody or anything with a ball and wasn't into double digits on every hole. It was fun.

Mimi: I hope WH can come out of shadow-mode. If you can't be involved during your son's senior year of high school, when will you? Did YOUR husband take a lot of photos at the college graduation? What spurred this change? Or is he just happy he's not paying tuition or is responsible for DS anymore? I'd like to know.

Chris: I'm not actually in Plan B, just doing a hollow imitation of it. Of course, I have not given WH my deadline but I feel better having a date. And the Day of the Dead would be an excellent time to welcome a "dead" man back into our home. Yes, the actually on my TM probably was sarcastic. However, when somebody TMs that they're are going to call and then leaves a phone message that they will call back and then bedtime rolls around and they haven't, it does make one a bit peeved. WH called DS at 11:15 pm on a school night. I was too tired for a late night phone call that night.

I've been discussing business with WH for several reasons. For one thing, I've been married to this guy for 28 years. That's longer than a lot of people on this board have been alive. I've been a SAHM for a lot of it. Old habits die hard. Next, he has made big expenditures without consulting me. Because this is something I've had issue with, I didn't want to make a big expenditure without consulting him. The last reason is that WH is an ace at electronic equipment. He has been looking for a new computer for us. DS wants a digital camera for his birthday. WH would be the man to buy it. WH doesn't do a lot and I'm still looking for ways to get him engaged with us. I'm sure it is a fool's dream but these are things he likes do do and has expressed interest in doing.

So, Plan B for a year? I'll try. Six months isn't good because that would take us to the emotional morass of Christmas.

Grape:

You said:



Grape, my post to you was heart-felt and serious. My H has really changed. He had not changed and was still in the fog 2 years ago at my YS' high school graduation. The fog is real! I repeat the FOG IS REAL! So until your WH has withdrawn from the OW he still may be in the shadows. In my situation, we have been through PLAN A, PLAN B and almost 2 years of RECOVERY. Through hard work and determination, WE both have CHANGED! I can't believe what you said here. You made light of all that I had to do and my FWH had to do to get to this place. What spurred the change? What spurred the change? Fear of losing his family, wanting to have a relationship with his Ss, no longer wanting to be a SHADOW DAD, wanting to be a part of their lives, showing care and concern for me and them, him being in love with me again.... You sounded sarcastic about this although you may not have meant to be. My H's changes do not have to do with not having to pay the tuition! Our son went to school on an athletic scholarship!

We've also been married for 28 years! The next 28 years will be 10 times better than the first 28!!!

Grapegirl,

I don't think that I have ever posted to you, but I often read your threads. I know how active you are with your children. (by the way, good luck with that preteen D, mine is 14 and giving me a run for my money. I wouldn't trade it tho, no matter how much I hate to run). I also am a SAHM and VERY active in kids' lives. And have a shadow dad here, but we are recently separated. My S7 didn't even realize that Dad wasn't here for 2 days, until S heard me talking on phone to H. H left Sun morn, early. S7 woke me up @ 730 am and asked where dad was. I told S that Dad had gone to Granparents to help them with something that morning (implying that H was gone for morning only -waiting to see what would happen with us). S7 didn't bring up dad again until Mon nite, AFTER S heard me talking with dad!! That told me something about H's interactions with us (although I already knew how little that was).

I, too am probably going to Plan B. I wish you well on your journey. You might want to look at JavaPrincess' post to me on my thread and her thread on JFO about detachment (don't recall title of thread there. Very helpful to me, anyway.

There is so much wisdom and beenthere-donethat advice on this board. I am so grateful, even when I just lurk!

Keep enjoying your offspring, poor H's don't know what they're missing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

jls

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic Mimi. (Well, anymore than usually. I do have that streak...) And I do not wish to ever, ever hurt your feelings. I know I'll be crying for joy once I'm not paying tuition and all. What do you really think affected this turn around in your H? Why has he decided to finally become a dad at a point where they don't really need him as much. Yeah, everybody needs a dad but wouldn't it have been nice when they were toddlers or teenagers? Is some of it because your sons aren't the competition anymore? That H can have you to himself without the interference of kids underfoot? That you don't have the myriad of activities to do with kids that he has chosen for years not to do? How, when and where did HE make the decision to finally be involved? What was the epiphany?

I, for one, am tired of crumbs. I'm tired of a man who can directly look at a piece of paper that say "reservations for the band award dinner" and says "Oh, an award dinner" but can't voice the words,"Are you going?", "Do you think DS will get an award?" or say "I'd like to go." or "Is it worth going to." (Now that might win a prize for run on sentences.) And yes, DS is getting an award and I'm going and his dad isn't. Weary of a man who says he'll call but doesn't. Sad for a man who calls his mom on Mother's Day
almost as a afterthought. I mourn for a man detached from all the good things of life.

I'm tired of kids who say that their dad is a jerk. Kids who don't even expect him to show up for anything. Kids who will not even share the most wonderful things that are happening in their lives with him. Kids that refuse to talk to him or look at him. Now that I've stopped being the family communicator, there is no communication. I have an 11 year old daughter who has been taught by her father not to trust men. A girl who doesn't want to sleep alone, won't even go in the garage by herself, clingy, whiney, needy. A girl who will not even look at her dad, let alone speak to him. A girl who expects the worst from her dad. We've got 7 more years of public school ahead of us. Seven years of soccer, softball and basketball games, school plays, first dates, puberty and a lot of changes. I'm not sure I can take 7 more years of crumbs. Does she deserve 7 years of crumbs? Years of a dad that hides behind lies, silence, absence or if he does show up, a camera?

How does the fog lift? How does NC with slimeball OW happen? When does a guy decided that the batchelor lifestyle is shallow and lonely? When will he see that his job is no substitute for a family? How do you stop people from telling you to dump the jerk?

Mimi, you've done a lot of hard work that you can be very proud of. I admire you. I'm sure there were a million times when you wanted to give up. Sometimes, I suspect that your relationship with your husband was a lot better before the A than ours was. You said that you could never visualize yourself without him. Well, I can visualize myself without WH. I can see myself traveling the world, being with other people and having a real job. I am a optimist and a lover of life. I want to share life with someone who wants to share it with me.

Do you think it's too late for SH?

Sorry, I must be in more of "mood" today than I thought. Maybe I just need to hang up the keyboard today.

I have a lot to say about this, GRAPE.

My answer to your questions could be lengthy. Are you in the mood to hear? Would it be worth it for me to invest my time today in this? I would be glad to share with you if you are wanting to listen.

Post away, Mimi. If you have the time and want to let off the steam, go for it. It's a lovely rainy day here and I'm going to go workout. If you don't do it, well, okay.

I suspect you're going to tell me to look after WH's emotional needs, that even after 6 months I need to give more. I roughly suspect what his needs are. You'll tell me that I am a crappy Plan A-er and you'd be entirely right. You'll say that I should encourage my kids to communicate with their dad more. I should discourage negative thoughts. Believe it or not, I always listen to what you have to say.

What I really feel is that this was WH's exit affair. That this is where he finally found the balls to bail out. Did your H buy you an engagement ring? Mine didn't. Did your H plan a honeymoon? Mine didn't. Sometimes, I think that he regrets he didn't have the courage to stop our wedding. Are you both conflict avoiders? Has your H had at least 1 previous A, probably in retrospect some ONS, encourage you to have an A, view porn and take pictures of prostitutes? Was he a cripple with bad hips for 15 years? Years in which we all used that as an excuse for him to not be involved? Was the sex bad and then it eventually stopped? Was his primary sexual care for his own satisfaction? Was your H a workaholic? When our kids were little, I think he felt "trapped" and stayed. That we were part of the package that went with that time of his life. Now that he's in the fog, basking in the batchelor life, he's out of here. Did your husband check out?

My rolemodel for marriage was that you shouldn't expect much. My dad was the controlling type and Mom went along with it. He worked 3 jobs to provide for his 6 kids. I married expecting a man who was strong and called the shots. WH wasn't, didn't, I filled the vaccuum. I became the strong one. At some point, the balance of power changed. With small kids, I felt really vulnerable. I've been frustrated and unhappy but I didn't have an affair. If our M is to work, what level do we go to? Do I focus on him, support his work and needs and give up on rest? I am a good person who does worthwhile work. I've been supportive and caring. I've run repeatedly into brick walls.

I'm sure I won't like what you have to say. But then again, you are a success story. How much of myself do I have to give up to make this work? Strange how I can still love a man who is mentally somewhere else.

My real question is: Would working with SH still be useful at this point? I need advice on that. I don't want to live regretting that it was something I didn't try. It's been 6 months. Even though a lot of people tell me to end it, I tell them it's too soon and I'm not ready.

Okay, get out the big knives and hack away.

I wouldn't be posting to let off steam. I don't have the need for that. I would be posting to try to help you based on my experience.

Today you sound like you do not really believe in the concept of MARRIAGE. That will be a basic concept for you to buy in order to RECOVER your marriage.

I think Steve Harley may be able to help you with that. However, I will warn you he strongly believes in MARRIAGEBUILDERS, building MARRIAGES if at all possible.

Read my last post to CC today.

TAKE CARE.