Anyone interested in a discussion on the differences between husband and wife roles in marriage? Of course, this will be from a Biblical perspective. I just completed a course that really studied this in depth. And if anyone is interested, we could start here...and I could take the outline from the study and get a discussion going.

In terms of MB principles, we all know the Emotional Needs Dr. Harley outlines. And these hold true within the confines of the different roles, needs and responsibilities of the husband and wife. The ENs must be met within the context of what a husband is supposed to do and what a husband needs...and what a wife is supposed to do, and what a wife needs.

So much of what God outlines in the bible about marriage has been misconstrued and missused. And thus, we ignore what our Creator says is the best way to approach a marriage...and then wonder why our marriages dont work.

So, if anyone is interested, let me know...and we can get this party started.

In His arms.

I'm all ears... interested, but not sure if able to contribute ... you start!

Pep

I am interested. I would like to know how to apply it to the world we live in today. I personally would love to get to stay home and raise my children myself instead of having to take them to day care, but there is no way we can afford for me to stop working or work from home.

Thanks Pep. I am getting everything together here. It is in 6 parts...three for the husband...and three for the wife.

To give an over view, what I have learned is that our roles are very unique. We arent just two, co-equal spouses. That there are things ONLY a woman can do in a marriage, and there are things that ONLY a man can do in a marriage. Of course, we know the obvious ones.

But, according to the Bible, God requires two thing for us to do and be...one for the wife and one for the husband. Out of these, there are three major areas each that we accomplish these.

The Bible says that a husband is commanded to love his wife, like Christ loves the church. And the wife is commanded to respect (or translated another way...reverence) her husband. So it comes down to the husband loves, the wife reverences.

In order to do this, we have to meet needs in three major areas each...I guess for this discussion, we will start with the man first.

Husband (Sacrificial Love)
1. Become your wife's Savior
2. Become your wife's Sanctifier
3. Become your wife's Satisfier

I will break these down into different posts...that way it will be easier to respond to and follow.

MM - where you been?

I am interested in observing any such discussion. I'll "listen" intently and only raise my hand when I have a point or question not constrained by a "Biblical perspective." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> But absence of comments should not be construed as agreement.

WAT

Mortarman, I am so glad you are back! Please...share what you have learned. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"But absence of comments should not be construed as agreement.

WAT "

lol! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Now who would ever think that?!?!? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Mortarman - Good luck with the series!

Becoming Your Wife's Savior....

Well, when the Bible says that a man should love his wife like Christ loves the church, that opens a huge area of discussion. And in order for us to know what this type of love is like, we have to understand what that love is like.

For those that dont know...other languages have many words that are translated into English as "love." There is the friendly kind of love, there is the lustful kind of love. And others. Now, is that how Christ loves us? No, His kind of love is what is called Agape in the Bible. it is ithe kind of love that asks for nothing from the recipient. It is the kind of love that loves someone, even when that someone is hurting them.

Those that have seen the Passion of Christ can get a picture of what that love looks like. I watched that movie again recently and came to a new understanding about what God requires. And make no mistake men...it is required. It is not optional. You cant decide to love your wife, only if she is treating you well. You cant decide to agape your wife, only if she is being faithful. No, this commandment is to love her enough to die for her.

Now, most men would say that they would die physically for their wives. If a bus was about to hit them, they would jump out and push their wives out of the way and take the hit themselves. But what about other areas in their life? What about when it comes to around the house? Do we REALLY love our wives like Christ loves us?

As we will see later in this discussion, our wives are commanded to submit to our leadership in the home. So, what kind of leader are we? What do we give up, what do we sacrifice, what do we do everyday in order to "save" our wives?

As I heard in this study...you know, before Jesus met you, He was doing fine. Before He came down to Earth, He was living large. He never knew pain, He never knew betrayal. Until He met me, He was living the perfect life.

And then all of you showed up...and I showed up...with our sins, with our complaints, with our not wanting to follow Him. You know what Christ could have done? He could have said "You ant me to give up my good life here in heaven, you want me to come down there and help there very people that thumb their noses at Me, who show little love and acceptance for Me...who will actively betray and even kill me? Oh no you don't. You aren't going to mess up my life."

He could have said that. And we would all be doomed to suffering the consequences of our lives and actions.

So, what made Him come? What made Him give up EVERYTHING in order to rescue us...to save us? In one word...love. It asnt love because we deserved it. Shoot, we were doing the exact opposite of loving Him. We deserved nothing but contempt and destruction. This was a different kind of love. It was a "choice love." It is a love that says "I chose to love you because of who I am. I chose to help you, even as you spit in my face. I chose to die for you, even as you are the one who is killing Me." It is a love beyond feelings.

Ladies...if you had a husband who would die everyday for you, who would sacrifice his life, his wants, his needs...who would lay his very life out there for you...would you have some Good News for him?

Guys, women need this. All of Dr. Harley's principles, when applied to the wife...are within this genre. When a woman wants SF, it is in the context of having SF with a man who has been willing to sacrifice all for her...to make her safe and to feel safe. If her highest need is financial security, it is in the context of a man willing to work three jobs, sacrifice his health and sleep, in order to make sure the lights stay on and the food is on the table. If her highest need is respect, it is in context of a man who respects his wife enough to be her biggest fan, her biggest encourager...and to move heaven and earth in order to help her accomplish her goals.

And you know what guys?? You get to do this without expecting ANYTHING in return. As a matter of fact, you may do this and be met with betrayal or hurt or indifference. But you said you wanted to be like Jesus didnt you? Well, welcome to His world.

He died on the Cross...and most of the people He died for will never follow Him. They will never accept His sacrifice, nor His love. But He went anyway.

If that ballgame is more important than spending time with your wife, then you do not love her like God expects. If that promotion at work is more important than being home and helping raise your kids, then not only do you not love your wife...you are in rebellion to God. She should always come first (well, second...Christ always comes first). ALWAYS!!!

So, the first part of this Agape for your wife is to be her savior. It is to die for her, to lay yourself out there and be "The Man." Sure, it will hurt. Crosses hurt. Spikes in your hand hurt. Spikes in your feet hurt. Spears in your side hurt. No one is saying that loving your wife wont hurt.

But if you want a marriage that survives, if you want a woman that will respond to your leadership, who will reverence you...if even if she doesnt...if you want God's blessings in your life...then you must love her enough that you take the chance that she might "destroy" you.

One note here....

For all of these sections for both the husband and wife, it is important to understand how this was originally set up. God designed marriage. It was His idea. he made the rules. Which is why we have so many divorces...because we refuse to read and/or live by the owners manual.

In Genesis, it outlines the first marriage. Adam and Eve. Adam was the head of Eve. Eve was to reverence Adam. To submit (as we will see in the wife's section later). So, how did sin enter the world??

It entered thru the marriage of Adam and Eve. Satan knew He couldnt do a direct frontal attack on Adam. No way. So what He did was to get Eve to disregard Adam's headship, to get her to make the decisions. And guess what? Most people think Adam was somewhere else when she was doing this. Nope. The Bible says he was standing right there as she talked to the snake.

So, we have a passive man not taking his leadership role and defending his wife. We have a wife that instead of forcing him to take the leadership role, decides to take charge herself. What we have is the woman becomes the man, the man becomes the woman...and all hell breaks loose.

Because of this break from God, we had a curse put on us. several things to the curse, like women's pain in childbirth. But the interesting thing is that God said that the man will seek to rule over the wife, and the wife will seek to take over. What the curse became is the Battle of the Sexes. The man is going to want to rule because he was made to rule. Of course, he will want to rule as a despot...not like God rules. And the woman will want to not be ruled, and she will want to take charge.

God gave each of us unique abilities. Men cannot have babies...no womb. Men cannot feed the babies...no breasts. Men cannot "mother" babies...we are not equipped to.

I hear many today that say that there is no difference between a mother and father...except plumbing. That is not true! I can be a great father. I cannot be a great mother. And the two ARE different!! Which is another reason why homosexual "marriages" and them raising kids do not work. Because there is something missing, either a man or a woman.

My wife cannot teach my sons what it is to be a man. I cannot teach my daughter what it is to be a woman. My daughter looks to me for the type of man she may someday marry. My sons look to my wife for what they will look for in a future wife. There is no substitute for this folks.

Sure, we know of many single parents that are doing their very best and surviving against the odds in raising the kids. But I have learned that even with those efforts, they still fall short. I got custody of my kids during our mess. I was raising them almost exclusively by myself. And I believe I did a great job. But guess what? I look back now and know that there will always be something missing if they do not have a woman in their lives to show them what it is supposed to be like to be a wife and mother. What it is like to be a woman.

So, all of this mess goes back to Adam and Eve. Adam was responsible, because he was the head. But it was Eve who ignored her head and wanted to take charge (as we will see later).

Anyway folks...there is the start. I will work on the next two for the husbands shortly. Of course, we can begin having a discussion on this first one now.

In His arms.

An over-stated conclusion, because the converse is absurd. NOT working at all = the highest love for your wife and the most rebellion to God?

How does your statement square with providing for your family and building for the future - out of love? Certainly, you wouldn't advocate not working at all in order to be a home 100% of the time, right? Getting that promotion at work could be a loud and sincere statement of love for your wife and family, i.e., sacrificing and being a leader in the home.

That said, seeking a promotion for promotion's sake and selfish gratification for little family benefut while neglecting your family may be a fair criticism. But even that isn't sufficient to conclude absolutely that "you do not love your wife."

WAT

WAT:

I was hoping NOT to jump into this thread, but I just had to shout out........WELL SAID !!!!!!!!!!!

LM

WAT,

I see where you are headed with that. And it isnt what I meant.

What that statement meant was that for many men out there, their career goals come at the expense of the family. Sure, there are monetary gains. But that isnt all he offers to that family, or what that family needs from him.

What I was talking about is that if that career comes before his wife and kids...then he loves his career more than his wife and kids. You follow what you love.

Of course, he needs to work and to make a better life for his family. But if that is his all consuming goal, if that career is more important than time spent with his wife and kids...then he is following what he loves.

Look, some men are in a position where they HAVE to work three jobs...have to be away. Soem men are in the military, are deployed a lot. For many, there is no choice how much they work, or when they work.

What I am talking about is when you have a choice. When that extra $25,000 a year promotion is worth the time away it will cause because now you will have to travel a lot. Is it worth it?

Remember, the Harley principles dovetail into this. He talks of the concept of TIME together. How can you do that if you are at work all the time? Now, a wife can understand if finances warrant this. They neither understand nor will accept when it is by choice that the husband would rather pursue those $$$ and promotions at the expense of the time and attention that his wife and kids need.

One other note on that WAT and LM...

I was a prime example of this. I worked my butt off in the Army, and at the same time ran my own business on the side. As well as coached baseball...with kids on the team that werent even my kids.

After the A, I came to realize that I had fallen in love with success, more than I loved my wife. I had a great career in the military. And I still had another 10-15 years in to make a difference. Especially now that we are at war. This is a time where I should be there, where my country needs me...where I can excel.

But guess what? My wife and kids needed me more. I retired last year because as much as I had the great career and a big rising star in the Army...as much as my country needs every soldier in the field to fight these [censored] out there...my wife needed me more. My marriage and family needed me more. I had to give up everything I loved, everything I had worked my whole adult life for, everything that I had defined myself as being...in order to be there for my wife.

This is what I am talking about...because I am as guilty as the next of it.

You lost me with this Mortarman. And it is normally the first (but not only place) where I part ways with Fundalmentalist Christians.

It doesn't hold true that the ONLY place one can get gender role models from is the mother and father in the immediate family unit. Too many grandma's, grandpa's, aunts, uncle's etc out there.

And I didn't breast feed, so my DD's dad could just have easily "mothered" my DD and frequently does, when he has her in his care.

This discussion is already biased against homosexual marriages and same sex parents.

As a Christian this makes me incredibly sad that there is such a rift in interpretation of Chrisianity.

Like Lemonman, I said to myself I would stay out of the discussion if I disagreed, but I was just hoping that it would be something I could actually hang my hat on.

I know that's not what you meant, but that's what you said. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> I'm just helping you to clarify and refine what you said.

I'm just trying to illustrate to you about the risk you take in insulting some sensibilities here by making over reaching statements and conclusions. I knew very well what you meant and alluded to it at the end of my post. I happen to agree that putting your career before your family - when it's optional - is selfish and not "loving" - no matter how love is defined. You followed with clear, refined discussion. This is intuitive and falls out of simple application of the Golden Rule. This is not rocket surgery. Divine guidance isn't needed to grasp it.

In these types of discourses, it's VERY easy to make absolute statements when absolute statements don't apply and one doesn't test their logic to see if they apply. A good test is the one I performed - seeing if the converse is true.

Continue. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

WAT

Weaver,

Sorry you feel that way.

In the first place, I didnt mean that the ONLY place that a boy gets his gender role models is the father. DNA has NOTHING to do with it. My oldest son is not mine biologically. He has never know his bio dad. But, that boy follows my every move, my every word. He is my son, I am his role model. But I am not the only one. My father was (until he died) a great role model. One of my brothers was a college pitcher and my oldest looks to him for guidance in his goal to be a great baseball pitcher. We receive imput from many sources. But, the main person that influences that child is its parents.

If a father is not there, for whatever reason, the boy will find other role models. Sometimes, it might be a stepdad. it might be an uncle or grandfather, as you suggested. It might be unhealthy places, like a gang leader. But even if it is a good role model, they will still be unable to fully meet what that boy needs...because a boy will always seek approval from his father. A great book on this subject is "Wild at Heart." It does a great job of telling about what a man needs from his father.

So, please do not take that the father is the ONLY role model for the boy (or mother for the girl). Just the most influential.

You also misinterpreted my writing on breast feeding. In context with what I was saying, my point was that being a father isnt just about plumbing...and being a mother is not just about plumbing. There are things that I bring to the table that my wife is incapable of bringing...because she is a woman. There are things I am unable to do that my wife can do, because she is a woman.

I have many friends on here who are atheists or other religions. They know I do not force my beliefs upon them. If you have been around here long enough, you know this about me also.

But since you have stated that you are a fellow believer, then you also know that your point about same sexed "marriages" and homosexual "marriages" is not a point of interpretation. Just as God said "I hate divorce", He also said that a man should not lie with another man. God also said in Malachi....that He NEVER changes.

You are welcome to your opinion...as I have my own. And if a fellow brother or sister can show me Scripturally where I am wrong, I will gladly accept that. Because all I want to do is follow Christ. That may be fundamentalist...but as far as I see in the Bible...the Disciples were fundamentalists also.

My intention for this thread was to offer what God has expressed is the role of marriage, and the roles and responsibilities of the husband and the wife in the marriage. Since it was His idea, then He gets to make the rules. Now, He gives us free will and we can chose to do it our own way. But, as we remodel...all we end up doing is creating a mess.

So far, I have had arguments here against certain examples I have provided. And I shot at my faith in Christ. What I haven't heard is an argument for the central tenet of this first installment...that the husband must agape his wife...to love her like Christ loves us.

Everyone has free will. I am not here to convert one soul. I do not have that power. Only to present what I have learned about what God expects of husbands and wives. And maybe this will help someone else like it has helped me, in having a marriage that is all that it can be. Instead of the sham marriages we all try to concoct in our own image.

In His arms.

Thanks for keeping me straight WAT!!

I will continue wit hthe next sections over the next two days. I will also endeavor to fill inthe Scriptural references, so that no one thinks these are Mortarman's ideas. I am just the messenger. Please don't shoot!!

WAT:

My friend, what is rocket surgery? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

LM

Now that's funny...I dont care who you are!!

Very well said, MM. I am looking forward to the next installment. I am loving the interaction between you and WAT as well <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />