Hi. I'm in the middle of a struggling marriage, and I believe I am currently taking all of the right steps to make things better and prevent a divorce, but I need some support right now, as my wife and I only discuss the issues for about 15 minutes a day and ultimately it comes to her statement, which has been about the same for the past 4 days, which is, "I don't know."

It started 4 days ago when I did something very bad, and regret, but would've have never found out the truth if I didn't do it, and our marriage would have deterioted on its own anyway. I hacked into her email. I've been feeling suspicious and paranoid for the past couple of months, and started making attempts to find out. Once I got in, I found strings of letters to and from some guy she met once at a concert that she frequents with her girlfriends.

I confronted her on it, and she claims she never cheated on me, never had an affair, it was just somebody she started to talk to, because they 'connected'. Push came to shove and she claims that this would have never happened if I had given her more attention for the past 10 years of our marriage. She said I never talk to her, that I take all the joy out of life, that I'm not a happy person, and that I have grounded her into the ground.

We have argued in the past, and she has claimed these things before, but I never took her seriously. I guess I always figured she was blowing things out proportion or PMS'ing. But now that the ultimate sh*t has hit the fan, I have had to really examine this, and realize that she is right.

I have told her repeatedly that I can change, that I'm not truly unhappy, but that I've just developed poor habits and behaviors and as a result, often go into a shell.

She has agreed to go into counseling, which we start in 2 days, but she has repeated that she is not keeping high hopes. I fear that she is only doing this for our girls (8 and 2 years old), and not for ourselves as well.

I also fear that I have been withdrawn for so long that she has already felt a kindred connection with somebody else and she may never regain her feelings for me. We have called each other at work the past 2 days, and I say "I love you" before we hang up, but she does not reciprocate.

I want to save this marriage, I still love her very much, and I want to change, not just for her, but for myself to.
I just hope it isn't too late. I think she thinks it might be.

Thanks for any feedback or someone to talk to. I can't talk to my family about this, and only have a few friends I can call to talk about this.

I am so sorry that nobody has responded to you yet. I know when you need support..you need it now and not 4 days later.

I wouldn't feel extremely bad about hacking into her email. Obviously she was giving you signs that turned out to be at least half true. My mother lives by a list of ten things that are vital to every marriage. One of the most important is that there should be NO secrets. Your wife should not being having this friendship or whatever she wants to call it without your knowledge. I personally believe that a man and a woman CAN be friends without anything else. However, if it is kept a secret, there is a reason. I just found out about my H A four weeks ago. When I did, I not only found out about physical cheating that had taken place throughout our relationship, but two non physical relationships. I count them too! When I have nightmares about all of this...they are in them too. When I cry about all of this...I cry about them too. Some people are more hurt by emotional affairs than by physical ones.

As for your relationship. Your wife may have had reason to be unhappy, but not to seek out another man! That is one thing that I have heard REPEATEDLY on this website. There isn't an excuse. If she was unhappy, she should have made it clear. If she made it clear and you failed meet her expectations, she should have left! Going to another man for support or companionship isn't going to fix your marriage, it will only make it worse. Now it has.

By now, you should have already had your appointment with the counselor. I hope that went well. Make sure your wife knows that you are willing to work on it. I hate to say it, but you need to respect her lack of confidence in the M. My H and I are in counseling too and I have to be realistic...with him and myself. I'll go through the counseling, but I might not get throught this without leaving. I'm 95% sure that we'll come out stronger in the end, but I don't want to lead my H on, and it be a total shocker if I leave six months from now. It is very good to know that my H still insists that he will do whatever it takes. Make sure that your wife knows that you will too. My H says to me, "I don't know why you keep saying 'if this works'..it's going to work, because I'm going to do whatever it takes to make it work". I love that about him. Make sure that she knows that YOU KNOW you weren't "plugged in" (as DR Phil says), but you will do what it takes to get "plugged in". You stated that she brought up the problems in the past, but you didn't take her seriously. Tell her that, and tell her that you do now. Show her that you do now. (Going to counseling is a good way to show her). You need to take all of this very seriously now. It sounds like she doesn't have one foot out the door...but that she's only got one foot left in it. Coming from a woman who has been told time and time again that he'll change, and he'll try. This time I truly believe it, because he tells me EVERYDAY. He emails me, leaves notes, calls, and tells me in person how much he realizes what he has almost lost and how he'll do whatever it takes. Just understand that it's hard to be on her end.

She might not reciprocate the devotion or the "I love You", and that's okay. It's hard to say those words when you're halfway out the door. I know it's hard not to hear them, but take a deep breath and know that you are doing all that you can. You should also let her know that it IS okay not to say those words. It's an uncomfortable spot to be in her boat (at the end of those phone calls). When my H confronted me about the same thing, I explained how uncomfortable I was, and he understood. He still said it when he got off the phone or left but he would hang up immediately or say it right as the door shut so that I didn't have a chance to NOT say it. That too, meant a lot to me.

As for this relationship that she's been having. It needs to stop IMMEDIATELY. I think that the counselor will agree. If she is truly meant to be with this other person and they have this great "connection" then it will still be there if things don't work out. She should be willing to cut it off at least while you two figure out what is going to happen with your M. Something like that just adds static to your lines of communication. You and your M need to be her focus and she owes that to you!

As for the kids, would you want her to stay for the kids' sake? I come from a broken home and thank God for it! I prefered my parents to have been happy apart than unhappy together. Kids feel EVERYTHING. They are probably already aware of the problems going on now. My childhood best friend had unhappy parents that "stayed in it for the kids" and she would flat out tell you that her parents were just waiting to get divorced until she finished school. It was no shock when that's exactly what they announced after she moved out. A split would probably be pretty hard on an 8 year old, but it would be harder on a 13 year old and 7 year old if you wait it out and realize that you two really are unhappy. Make sure that you leave that option open to wife. I know it sounds contradictory. But make sure that if she does stay that she's staying for the right reasons. If she's not ever going to reconnect with you, you need to let her go.

Okay....I know that's a lot to take in. And I know it looks like I'm wavering back and forth, but I want you understand both sides. The other relationship is inexcusable, and needs to stop, but you have to do your part to convince her that it isn't needed. It takes work, but you sound like you're willing to do it. PLEASE keep us updated. Remember, I'm going through similar things and it would be nice to hear from the H side of things too.

lindsay

Lindsay,

Thanks so much for the reply. So much to absorb. I printed it out so I can re-read it again.

Our first counseling session was last week, and it was pretty much what I expected: not much, seeing as how most of the time would be backgrounding for him, etc. But he did tell me to give her her space since that is what she says she wants right now.

So I have backed off some. Stopped saying 'I love you', because it puts her on the spot and she didn't like it; trying to get a kiss, trying to sit next to her on the couch, etc. It's eating my insides apart.

I spent the weekend at my friend's house, and while I tried to enjoy myself, it still ate away at me all weekend.

I hope I can regain my balance for whichever direction this takes. I need to be well-adjusted and able to be happy regardless. It's just so soon since this started, that I can't think about anything else. My whole world has been turned upside down.

If I lose her, I just don't lose her...I lose my children and my FAMILY, too. And part of me thinks that might the the crux of the problem. I was so in love with my FAMILY and notion of FAMILY, that I forgot how to nurture the individual parts of the family.

I'm trying to keep my head up and maintain hope, but it's so hard. But I have to keep on showing her that I am changing, and prove to her that I'm not just changing for her or to save our marriage, but for myself as well.

Hi. Glad to hear back from you. I know that first counseling appointment doesn't really do any good, but it's a step in the right direction. I understand your love for FAMILY, we've been dealing with that (or possible loss of that) as well. However, one of the main things that the counselor is pounding into us right now is that our individual identities are important, and our family unit is important, but right now what's most important is my H and I and our unit. It's a concept I never thought about. I always worried about my own well being and that of the FAMILY. She's right though. Our union needs to be stable. It's interesting to look at our lives through a different set of eyes. I hope that the counseling starts to rebuild your "unit" soon.

It's good that you're giving her some space. I know it's hard on you, but it shows that you're respecting where she's at right now. Don't forget what I said about giving her that space while also simply informing her how committed to are to making it work. I wish you both the best. Keep us updated.
Lindsay

I don't think you should move out. Have you read HN/Hn's yet -get it its in the bookstore here. From what I have read plan A is all about giving and making yourself a better person. Are you doing this? Read Plan A. Ask questions here if you need to.

Update:

My wife and I had another heart-to-heart discussion last night. No progress, really as I see it. She wants to try to save the marriage, but doesn't know how to get her feelings back for me. I confronted her on the guy she was having a relation with via email and cell phone, and asked if they still communicate. She admitted, that yes, they still email, and he called today. She said that he was just someone to talk to, they struck it off, his kid died, he has cancer and is getting treatment, yada, yada, yada...but I know from the initial emails I snatched, that deep feelings developed between them.

Then today, out of the blue, I get this email from her (the first time she has ever really sent me a personal email that wasn't business related):



I first read this and my heart jumped with hope. I gave it some thought and replied as such:



I spoke to her on the phone around lunchtime, just to tell her I was headed home to meet the AC repairman, and thanked her for the email. We got into a quick discussion again, and again, she said she doesn't know how to get her feelings back. I asked her just to be honest with me, and tell me what I can do to help. But I just keep hearing "I don't know, I don't know."

I'm so confused.

I drove home and back this afternoon and all I could think about was the other guy. How can I trust her that she is trying as she insists she is if she is still communicating with him? I don't want to drive her away by insisting that she end it all with him right now, but on the other hand, I feel like I weak wimp for putting up with it.

this sucks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Good to hear from you. It looks like you two are at least having some good communication. At least she's not completely cold. I understand your dilemma with the other man. When is your next counseling appointment. I've learned that there's only so much that can fit into a one hour appointment, but I think that should be one of the main things discussed. That needs an immediate solution, even if it is just that you need to ignore for it for now. I don't think that's what a professional would advise, but who am I to guess?

I'm in the same boat with the inability to stop thinking about it. I don't know if you read my personal post or not, but that's my entire problem right now. I'm very optimistic about my relationship and our family, but I don't know how to get through the runaway thoughts. I'm even having nightmares about it. I haven't gotten much advice on my post about it, but I'll fill you in if anyone gives any techniques to calm the mind about it. Let me know if you learn of any on your end too. I hope the best for you and your wife. Keep us updated.

Lindsay

Good Morning All,

Based on your posts, I see that there are good possibilities for you to come out of this with a better marriage than before.

First off, study the material on plan A and identify somethings that you can do that will be helpful. They don't have to be big earth shaking things. In my case, it was not leaving socks in the living room and other domestic things.
In essence, I was meeting the need for domestic support. There were other changes I made in attitude and behavior that my FWW noticed that helped her to see me as more desireable than OM.

The more needs of hers you meet, the more her feelings of love for you will return. While it is important to meet the needs associated with the family, make sure that you devote time and energy to meeting her personal needs. Let her know that she is appreciated for more than being the kids mother.

As to the thoughts about the A, time will help those diminish. My FWW and I are 3 months into recovery and on occasion, I still think about A. It still hurts to think about it but not as much as before and it doesn't happen as often.

Yaya con dios,
Gordon

WantToSaveIt

I would like you to do a few things and and hold off doing anything that you think is a 'fix' just for now. Men want to fix things..... I think you get that in the genes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

In this case I ask that you stop & agree to nothing radical like leaving etc & read the posts in this 'just found out' forum by worthatry
it is a VERY good starting point.

Then to back that up read the info about plan A on this site and learn what the love bank is, what are emotional needs and what love busters are ..its not hard really just some catchy names for real commonsense things to do.
I also suggest you read his needs her needs .... very good book and there are some others also that are recommended.

Now thats a lot of home work but this system does work but please be aware that some of the things it asks you to do actually sound as if they will hurt the situation..they dont pls believe that ...ask KTU he did them & its working well.

Now some other things ...... DO NOT AGREE TO LEAVE OR LET HER TAKE THE KIDS & LEAVE to 'find' herself ok??? This is a standard WW script which really means let me go have my Affair away from you so I wont have to feel guilty.
YOU cannot stop HER doing anything she wants,SHE can leave anytime but you can stop her dragging the kids into it. But thats it. If she goes it has to be alone, do not leave the family home & do not let the kids go.

I hope her asking for 'space' is more what plan A will suggest you do, dont ask to talk about any relationship, if she wants to talk let her talk and LISTEN. She may say things which you disagree with but right now let that go and accept its how she FEELS right now.
Dont push her for decisions on you or M now but work out what her top EN's are and try like mad to meet them. You will find you will be changing your behaviour and outlook and maybe feel you are doing all the work ... well you are right now. By meeting her EN's you are enticing her back to the man she M and maybe even a better man!!

It will not happen overnight, it may take months, many months but it has a good record of helping M recover.

From your posts I feel you have a very very good chance of working this out if you are prepared to put the work into it and it will be hard work. But I'm sure you can do it.

Just one more thing, please understand and be ready to accept that you MAY, now I only say MAY, learn the Affair was more than just emotional over the web, it may have gone physical..I dont know but you need to know this and be ready for it as once she begins to feel 'safe' with you and the M she will begin to tell you things most likely. I'm warning you of this so you will not be shocked at the wrong time .. and look it may not be the case at all.

It sounds good that she is remorseful and wants to work on the M ..thats a plus ... however you will need to trust her actions right now not just what she says.

I hope I have not confused you with too much info..it will fit together if you read the info on the site and the link above.

Good luck and let us know how things are going <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

All, thanks for the input.

I read the Plan A, and I guess I have already started to put it into to effect. But I have two questions/quandries:

1. What should I talk about at our shrink meeting tomorrow? Should I bring up the affair/other man at all? I know I can't deliver an ultimatum and tell her to cut off now, completely, or I could just push her away. What should I talk about in the session? That's all that's on my mind right now, that and winning her back and saving the marriage. And how can I trust her that she is genuine about wanting to try to fix this if she still has feelings and communicates with the OM? What should I talk about?


2. The CATCH-22: She needs her space, so how can I give her the emotional needs? She doesn't want me to sit next to her on the couch, tell her that I love her, or pressure her in any way. The only thing she allows is for me to put her arm around her, cuddle, spoon, and even cup her breast when we sleep. But she said from the beginning of this mess that that is ok, because she is used to it. It was the emotional distance that F'd things up, and now I don't know how to fix it since she needs her space. I have been doing things around the house and attempting to not be negative (which was a trait of mine which helped lead up to this), but we can't really have any conversation right now, other than the few talks we have had about the problems. Other than that, it's just 'business' talk (kids, summer plans, etc....and it's all straight faced and cold and brief when we do talk about these things). How can I show her emotion and that changing if she won't let me get close? How can I give her 'space' and give her her emotional needs at the same time?

3. I am taking her out for her birthday in 2 days, and she has agreed. But I sense fear and reluctance on her part. And I have some fear of my own, too. There is such a gap between us right now, I'm afraid we'll have nothing to talk about, since the dark cloud is still hanging so heavy on our heads. I don't want to be frozen in silence as we eat and watch music, but I don't even know how bring up conversation at this point because there is so much other cruft getting in the way.

Good Morning,

As to your point 1, here are a couple of suggestions. Use the session to find out more about your W's ENs and how to meet them. A second approach is to go with the flow. The MC will have topics to cover and your W, probably does too.

There are ENs you can meet that still give your W space. Financial support, domestic support, family committment, and admiration can all be met without making your W feel like shes being crowded. In my case, I started with domestic support. It puzzled the hell out of my wife as to what I was up to. From there, I was able to start meeting other, more intimate needs as I had her attention.

Point 3, do something unexpected for your wife for her birthday. My W's A ended right about Valentine's Day. We went out to eat, not unusual, but what I did different was I gave her a small necklace. Outside of Christmas and birthdays, I am not a big present giver so this was a shock to her. She started crying, saying she hadn't had a Valentine's Day present in years. She put it on, went into the bathroom to look at it in the mirror, but the strange thing is she didn't turn the light on. As it was after dark, I don't think she saw much. She wrote me a wonderful note in Thanks which is, now, one of most treasured possesions.

Vaya con dios,
Gordon